"Metrolink to Stockport" - what could that mean?

[py_megapixel]

Thought it was worth creating a thread dedicated to the discussion of a potential Manchester Metrolink extension to Stockport.

From the BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-67801843)

Plans to extend Greater Manchester's Metrolink tram network to Stockport have taken a step closer - with mayor Andy Burnham promising to make a business case for the in-demand link.
He said he will work with Stockport Council on the expansion over the next 12 months.
The proposal would link the town to Manchester Airport and East Didsbury.

I'm particularly intrigued by the underlined section (my underline, for what it's worth). Does this mean they want to build two lines to Stockport - one along the Mersey from East Didsbury, and one to the airport (possibly street running through Cheadle Heath, Cheadle Hulme and Heald Green then a connection to the existing line somewhere near Wythenshawe)?

Or are they suggesting that passengers will travel from Stockport to the Airport via St Werburgh's Road? That seems implausible - by my reckoning the journey time would be over an hour, when the 199 bus does it in about 20 mins, and the 313 in about 35. (Looking on a map it's a pretty massive detour!)

 

[Trainguy34]

Thought it was worth creating a thread dedicated to the discussion of a potential Manchester Metrolink extension to Sheffield.

I know that the BBC can be a bit off at times but that takes the biscuit!

 

[py_megapixel]

I know that the BBC can be a bit off at times but that takes the biscuit!

Sorry, very major typo on my part, now corrected. I had been thinking beforehand about something related to the trams in Sheffield...

 

[JonathanH]

The original line from East Didsbury went on to Stockport, although part of it is under the M60. A triangle in the St Werburgh's Road area would still provide connectivity between Stockport and parts of the line north of Wythenshawe.

 

[py_megapixel]

The original line from East Didsbury went on to Stockport, although part of it is under the M60. A triangle in the St Werburgh's Road area would still provide connectivity between Stockport and parts of the line north of Wythenshawe.

It would certainly provide the connectivity, but that connectivity is largely already there by means of buses which take much more direct routes.

The journey time by bus from Stockport to Wythenshawe is approximately 40 minutes, which, granted, is far too long for such a short distance. But could a tram service that takes a huge detour into Chorlton and out again, and then approaches Wythenshawe on the notoriously circuitous Airport line, really bring any meaningful improvement to it?

I think if the aim is better orbital connections in south Manchester - which seems like a reasonable idea - they need to look at building a line that actually serves that need, or else strengthening the bus services with priority measures, stop upgrades etc.

 

[Grimsby town]

It would certainly provide the connectivity, but that connectivity is largely already there by means of buses which take much more direct routes.

The journey time by bus from Stockport to Wythenshawe is approximately 40 minutes, which, granted, is far too long for such a short distance. But could a tram service that takes a huge detour into Chorlton and out again, and then approaches Wythenshawe on the notoriously circuitous Airport line, really bring any meaningful improvement to it?

I think if the aim is better orbital connections in south Manchester - which seems like a reasonable idea - they need to look at building a line that actually serves that need, or else strengthening the bus services with priority measures, stop upgrades etc.

The tram service proposal for Manchester Airport would involve tram-train operation from Stockport to Baguley. It'd then switch to the airport tram line for the rest of the journey. I did a bit of work on the proposal a few years back. It should have a relatively good case but relies on the tram-train pathfinder services.

I do wonder if they'll go for a 12 minute frequency as with the rest of metrolink or attempt something a bit less ambitious at least to begin with.

 

[daodao]

There is no need to build a Metrolink line to Stockport town centre, given the excellent fast train service from Edgeley station to Manchester Piccadilly. The best and most useful way to mollify Stockport councillors' moans about paying for Metrolink but it not serving their borough is to convert the Manchester-Reddish-Rose Hill line to Metrolink.

 

[faltskog36abba]

I know an extention of the line to Stockport has been on the cards for a long while, Stockport has excellent rail connections- And now a proposed Metrolink . How about starting in north Manchester first- Heywood, Middleton,- Then connect to Oldham/Rochdale and eventually Ashton ?.

 

[Bevan Price]

There is no need to build a Metrolink line to Stockport town centre, given the excellent fast train service from Edgeley station to Manchester Piccadilly. The best and most useful way to mollify Stockport councillors' moans about paying for Metrolink but it not serving their borough is to convert the Manchester-Reddish-Rose Hill line to Metrolink.

As I understand the situation, the idea is not for a Manchester to Stockport direct Metrolink; it will be something lie East Didsbury to Stockport, to improve public transport on the southern fringe of Manchester. So, maybe partly on the trackbed of the old line to Stockport Tiviot Dale, and partly on roads to serve Stockport Town Centre.

I am unsure about trams or tram-trains using the Stockport to Baguley line - there are probably too many freight trains to permit a frequent interval tram service, and there is no easy alternative that the freights could use.

 

[daodao]

So, maybe partly on the trackbed of the old line to Stockport Tiviot Dale

The route of the old Midland line from just east of the current East Didsbury Metrolink stop via Heaton Mersey to Stockport Tiviot Dale has largely been obliterated. There is no easy route for trams to run from East Didsbury to Stockport.

Metrolink exists primarily to encourage people to use rail-based transport to access Manchester city centre and key destinations close to it such as the Etihad Stadium. The limited demand for people to travel from places on the South District line to the hollowed out Stockport town centre does not warrant on its own construction of a very expensive Metrolink line to it.

 

[Topological]

The route to Stockport has already been given reasonably detailed planning, though maybe there have been small changes. The initial plan was put in place before the most recent big bang expansion. In the end East Didsbury became the terminus, but the plan to continue was made.

There is a wealth of material out there showing diagrams of the planned route. For example the Stockport Rail Strategy Draft Report 2020 (See from Page 45): https://democracy.stockport.gov.uk/documents/s57207/Appendix

The general route in the more recent documents is to follow the old trackbed then pick up the South Manchester freight line. A junction is proposed between that line and the Stockport to Altrincham route with trams using the Stockport to Altrincham line to access Stockport itself. I can see how the new proposals tie in with more access to the airport.

However, proposals I saw also worked out a route using street running from the point the motorways take over the Tiviot Dale route. Metrolink lines at least featured in the planning for the new Stockport Interchange bus station, and for the comparatively new bridge that was built to bring in the buses. Of course such are indicative and I do not know if structures have been specifically future-proofed for Metrolink.

 

[daodao]

The Stockport Rail Strategy Draft Report 2020 available at https://democracy.stockport.gov.uk/documents/s57207/Appendixreport states on page 48 that:

Plans for a Metrolink route from Stockport to East Didsbury, and onwards to Manchester City Centre have existed since the late 1990s. Following the same alignment from Stockport Town Centre as the proposed Stockport – Airport service provides construction cost savings. This southern route from Stockport to East Didsbury would join the Hazel Grove to Sharston freight line via a new junction at Cheadle Heath, and then cross the River Mersey via a new alignment to East Didsbury. This has the potential to provide a new stop at Gorsey Bank, providing sustainable transport access to the proposed new development site. This route would provide Metrolink services to Manchester City Centre from the Edgeley and Adswood areas, and would provide much-improved connections from Stockport to Didsbury, Chorlton and Salford Quays and Trafford Park.

An earlier Metrolink route between Stockport and East Didsbury followed an alignment close to the River Mersey, terminating at Stockport Interchange. More recent work has indicated that the southern route offers better value for money than the Mersey route, not least because of the cost-savings from sharing the alignment of other Stockport West routes. The case for the southern route compared with the Mersey route has become stronger as plans for development of the Airport area have evolved.

However, the previous rail alignments from East Didsbury to both the former Cheadle Heath and Stockport Tiviot Dale stations have largely been obliterated and the diagram 12 on page 49 of this report merely shows a dotted line where an expensive new alignment would need to be created, with no details.

A better and simpler alternative route to access Stockport town centre is outlined on page 47 of the above report:

5.5.1. Manchester to Marple and Stockport Town Centre via Belle Vue Manchester – Marple
Metrolink would replace local rail services on the Manchester – Marple via Bredbury line with a more frequent service that would access the heart of Manchester City Centre. A further benefit of the scheme is that it contributes to relieving platform capacity constraints to Manchester Piccadilly, since the scheme would enter Piccadilly via the Metrolink platforms. The route from Manchester to Marple would not serve Stockport Town Centre.

There is however potential for a Stockport Town Centre branch of the Manchester – Marple line to be created utilising the Stockport – Stalybridge line south of Reddish. A high-level feasibility study has previously been carried out for that section of route and a provisional alignment identified. A potential service pattern for a Manchester to Marple and Stockport via Belle Vue service would be:
 5tph Manchester – Belle Vue - Bredbury – Marple Rose Hill
 5tph Manchester – Belle Vue – Reddish South – Stockport

 

[HSTEd]

The Stockport Rail Strategy Draft Report 2020 available at https://democracy.stockport.gov.uk/documents/s57207/Appendixreport states on page 48 that:



However, the previous rail alignments from East Didsbury to both the former Cheadle Heath and Stockport Tiviot Dale stations have largely been obliterated and the diagram 12 on page 49 of this report merely shows a dotted line where an expensive new alignment would need to be created, with no details.

A better and simpler alternative route to access Stockport town centre is outlined on page 47 of the above report:

Metrolink conversion of the line via Bredbury would be a major project though, on par with the initial construction of the system. It would have significant implications for the broader rail network by forcing all Sheffield bound trains through Hazel Grove or Guide Bridge, forever.

I doubt it would come in any cheaper than a route south from Parrs Wood to the River Mersey and from there east to Stockport.
It might be worth doing on its own back, but is a much larger scheme tha the one proposed here