Metrolink Tram and Car Collision - Airport line

[muz379]

From Manchester Evening News .

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...hird-car-metrolink-tracks-wythenshawe-8196676

A car has collided with a tram after a THIRD vehicle in a week made its way on to the Wythenshawe tracks.

The incident at Roundthorn on the new Manchester Airport line stopped trams between that stop and Robinswood for around an hour.

It meant services were halted and replaced by buses for stops including Martinscroft, Benchill, Crossacres, and Wythenshawe town centre.

Chris Rafferty
A crash between a car and a tram in Wythenshawe


A Metrolink spokesman confirmed there had been a collision between a car and a tram at Roundthorn at around 6.30pm.

He added: “Services were running between Airport and Robinswood and between Roundthorn and Cornbrook while police attended the scene.

Manchester Club Cars
A car and a Metrolink tram crash in Wythenshawe

“They have just given the all clear and services are now starting to get back under way. We’re not aware of any injuries.”

It is the third such incident in a week.

On Tuesday evening, a red car was pictured on the tracks at Baguley, and previously a 98-year-old driver accidentally steered her Renault Clio on to the line.

The M.E.N told how hero workmen rescued the driver by lifting her car from the tracks. Her predicament began on Saturday just before 9am, when she took a wrong turn off Royal Oak Road in Baguley, while driving to morning Mass.

I dont know what has happened here . But having driven in the area since the line has opened I can say there is quite clear signage to indicate tram only areas and being aware that they are electric so can be quiet I pay extra attention if having to legitimately cross lines at junctions etc .So unless a tram driver has flown past a signal at stop or something has gone wrong with signalling It looks to be another car driver at fault .

It just reminds me of the junction in Manchester city center where there is a stop sign yet people roll past it and into the path of trams because they clearly dont know how to behave at a stop sign .

 

[WatcherZero]

It happens after each new line opens, cars driving onto the tracks until the locals get used to it then it rarely happens again. Presumably non-local drivers are more careful as they don't know the area.

 

[185]

One two days ago was a 98-year old driver.

I think sat nav takes some blame, but more often it's drivers not concentrating, playing with phone, or driving so close to the vehicle infront, they cannot see what's coming.

 

[Boysteve]

One two days ago was a 98-year old driver.

I think sat nav takes some blame

NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!
Satnav's do not excuse bad driving. They should be used as a guide but should not replace commen sense and obeyance of road signs. I also took issue with the reporting of the incident involving the 98 year old lady, the implication was as she was on her way to morning Mass we should have pity on her. Absolute nonsense, I do not care what her destination was, if she cannot drive safely then she should not be driving at all.

 

[MCR247]

Satnav's do not excuse bad driving. They should be used as a guide but should not replace commen sense and obeyance of road signs. I also took issue with the reporting of the incident involving the 98 year old lady, the implication was as she was on her way to morning Mass we should have pity on her. Absolute nonsense, I do not care what her destination was, if she cannot drive safely then she should not be driving at all.

Whereas if it was a 19 year old guy he would've been driving on tram tracks as a shortcut on his way to meet a drug dealer

 

[455driver]

Whereas if it was a 19 year old guy he would've been driving on tram tracks as a shortcut on his way to meet a drug dealer

Wot they dont do delivery these days, back in my day blah blah blah, when I were a lad blah blah blah!

Car drivers these days are so dependant on technology they cant use their own brains and do exactly what the technology tells them to do!

 

[muz379]

Car drivers these days are so dependant on technology they cant use their own brains and do exactly what the technology tells them to do!

They are now putting together cars that can "avoid" a crash by braking for you if you are about to drive into something . and cars that tell you when you are veering out of a lane on the motorway .

The main problem I see a lot is people following a sat nav but having no idea of where they are or how to read the road . For example the silly women I saw earlier sitting in the middle of a box junction with her indicator on to turn right at a junction . Despite there being a no right turn side about 200 yards before the junction , and another one at the junction .And what could I see through her rear window . Yes the healthy glow of a sat nav screen

Another prime example is the number of fast food delivery drivers who drive up my friends one way street the wrong way . When we told one he shouldn't have driven up it that way he said his sat nav told him to and he didnt know the area that well . we just take bets with each other now when we order a take away

 

[Bletchleyite]

My friend has a VW which will I believe not collide with any stationary object under 20mph unless the road is icy or similar.

 

[muz379]

My friend has a VW which will I believe not collide with any stationary object under 20mph unless the road is icy or similar.

how does that work when trying to park in a particularly tight parking space . or say nose to nose in bays like at the supermarket

 

[ECML180]

how does that work when trying to park in a particularly tight parking space . or say nose to nose in bays like at the supermarket

Shouldn't be too hard...when I park I usually stop before I drive into the car in front

 

[muz379]

Shouldn't be too hard...when I park I usually stop before I drive into the car in front

yes I know this , but im guessing the system uses some sort of system to detect the proximity of the obstacle and stops you a set distance away . Sometimes when parallel parking tho it might be necessary to get very close to another car to get into a gap .

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

If a new transport system that adds more problems to existing road running sections and is of a type that was not seen for about sixty years on the Manchester road systems, can you really blame road users for having another road problem to cope with? What next, velo-trains, to add to the general confusion?

 

[muz379]

If a new transport system that adds more problems to existing road running sections and is of a type that was not seen for about sixty years on the Manchester road systems, can you really blame road users for having another road problem to cope with? What next, velo-trains, to add to the general confusion?

However if the planning procedures have been gone through properly and the signage is in line with that laid out in the highway code what excuse do road users have for making such mistakes .

I mean lets say for one minute I didnt live in Manchester , Yet drove into the center of Manchester visiting .Encountered a particular junction in the city center (Mossley street & Nicholas street jn) with a STOP sign . However choose to ignore this sign and continue past it without stopping and carrying out proper observations , and then I emerged in front of a tram causing the tram to collide with my car . How can anybody say the transport system , the council , the tram driver or anybody else but the motorist in that situation is wrong ? .

These tram lines havent just been slapped down , planning and signage complinance will have been seriously thought about .

You really can blame road users for not being able to properly obey signs .

 

[neilmc]

This sort of thing really winds me up! One reason I am totally in favour of free bus passes for the elderly is that it will induce at least some to keep their car off the road - for instance, my father-in-law travels all the way from Chesterfield to Manchester by bus when he visits us - this entails four buses each way but he is getting more and more unsafe as he ages, as I realised the last time I sat in his car! I personally feel that elderly drivers should not only have to apply for licence renewal more frequently but they should actually be retested to retain their licences. Many times I have seen older drivers do incredibly dangerous things, often as a result of indecision or a failure to cope with the unexpected - like a new tram route - but they are treated very leniently compared to the young.

My son passed his test early and has always been an exemplary driver, despite the police - especially those traffic police "over the border" in Cheshire whom I regarded as human vermin twenty years ago - constantly pulling him up and questioning him for no reason other than was a young man with an old car. And we are white and middle-class, goodness knows how young black kids ever get to drive anywhere out of the inner city.

 

[edwin_m]

These tram lines havent just been slapped down , planning and signage complinance will have been seriously thought about .

Indeed, I ran over 50 meetings that reviewed in detail the plans for individual parts of Metrolink, identified possible hazards and later reviewed design changes to reduce them. There were also formal road safety audits by qualified staff assessing compliance with road design standards and any other hazards.

Rather late in the process the DfT finally agreed that the red and white "No Entry" sign with a qualifying plate "Except Trams" was rather more effective than the blue and white "Tram Only" sign - I was saying to anyone who would listen that the latter was probably not understood by a big majority of drivers especially visitors to the area.

 

[familyguy99]

Make that four times this week that car have ended up on Metrolink tracks on Airport line.

FOURTH car on tram tracks in a week sparks debate over bad signage

Transport chiefs have defended their signs after the FOURTH car in a week ended up on tram tracks.

The M.E.N reported a collision between a car and tram near Roundthorn station on the new Manchester Airport line in Wythenshawe on Friday night. And on Saturday evening, another car became stuck on the track at Baguley for 10 minutes but did not disrupt services.

These followed two other incidents where cars ended up on the tracks on the newly-opened route.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...ster-news/fourth-car-tram-tracks-week-8201652

 

[muz379]

Indeed, I ran over 50 meetings that reviewed in detail the plans for individual parts of Metrolink, identified possible hazards and later reviewed design changes to reduce them. There were also formal road safety audits by qualified staff assessing compliance with road design standards and any other hazards.

Rather late in the process the DfT finally agreed that the red and white "No Entry" sign with a qualifying plate "Except Trams" was rather more effective than the blue and white "Tram Only" sign - I was saying to anyone who would listen that the latter was probably not understood by a big majority of drivers especially visitors to the area.

the thing that really annoys me is that now because of 4 stupid drivers a massive review will happen costing loads of money to look at the signage . All this despite however many thousands of drivers who have managed to successfully navigate these junctions without ending up on tram tracks .

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Rather late in the process the DfT finally agreed that the red and white "No Entry" sign with a qualifying plate "Except Trams" was rather more effective than the blue and white "Tram Only" sign - I was saying to anyone who would listen that the latter was probably not understood by a big majority of drivers especially visitors to the area.

Thank you for bringing this particular signage matter to our attention. Indeed, just because local area road users should be aware and familiar with such signs, there are many commercial and private car owners, especially near to the industrial estates, who will never have seen such a road sign.

 

[muz379]

Thank you for bringing this particular signage matter to our attention. Indeed, just because local area road users should be aware and familiar with such signs, there are many commercial and private car owners, especially near to the industrial estates, who will never have seen such a road sign.

just because you have never seen a road sign does not mean you are excused from not knowing what it is . There are road signs I have never seen however as I have read my highway code and made myself aware of what all the road signs mean I am able to understand what they mean if I ever do come across one .

 

[Emyr]

FOURTH car on tram tracks in a week sparks debate over bad drivers

I wish.

 

[ECML180]

just because you have never seen a road sign does not mean you are excused from not knowing what it is . There are road signs I have never seen however as I have read my highway code and made myself aware of what all the road signs mean I am able to understand what they mean if I ever do come across one .

I have read the highway code in full and think I am pretty competant when it comes to all the myriad of signs. However there are obscure ones which I will have probably forgotten about and so I can understand when people do mis-understand them, it is in part due to the fact that there are simply far too many signs.

However, it is nearly always pretty obvious that a tram line is a stupid place to drive. Surely any road user seeing the road stop and only tram tracks continue would think not to go down there, clearly there is a bigger competence issue with these people than not reading signs. (just look at the old lady!)

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.../metrolink-tram-car-stuck-wythenshawe-8174076

 

[muz379]

I have read the highway code in full and think I am pretty competant when it comes to all the myriad of signs. However there are obscure ones which I will have probably forgotten about and so I can understand when people do mis-understand them, it is in part due to the fact that there are simply far too many signs.

However, it is nearly always pretty obvious that a tram line is a stupid place to drive. Surely any road user seeing the road stop and only tram tracks continue would think not to go down there, clearly there is a bigger competence issue with these people than not reading signs. (just look at the old lady!)

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.../metrolink-tram-car-stuck-wythenshawe-8174076

True I guess , I learnt to drive not that long ago so they are probably fresh in my memory , and was always fascinated by road signs even as a child so was always looking in the back of the road atlas in the car on long journeys to see what all the signs I could see meant(days before in car dvd ) so a lot of them are ingrained in my memory .

But I dont think any of the signs on the metrolink road junctions are of the type that are obscure , for instance as Edwin_m said the white and red no entry sign is a pretty basic road sign I think . And I would expect everyone should have a knowledge of what that is

But even if you dont know what the sign means , its pretty obvious as you say that when you see tram tracks and wires overhead you need to pay attention so as not to end up going somewhere you shouldn't .

With it being so close to the airport I wonder how many international drivers who have hired cars in this country have managed to successfully navigate junctions with tram lines without driving up them . despite them not having ever been tested on our road signs .

I do agree it is bigger than not just knowing the signs though .As someone else has said its just about drivers not looking far enough beyond the end of their own bonnet and planning and anticipating for what lies ahead .

 

[duffield]

I don't know why they even need the 'except trams' on the no entry sign. It's not as if the tram driver will get confused, they never have any circumstances where a no-entry sign *will* apply to them!

Slightly off-topic but I can see a few places on the new Nottingham lines 2 and 3 where I'm sure drivers will get confused and end up on the tracks. Maybe we should have a small wager in my office about when the first 'car on tram tracks' incident occurs on the new lines (it will be shortly after full test running starts as far as I can tell, since at the moment with limited testing in progress they seem to be keeping cones in strategic places at most tram/road interfaces except when actually running)

 

[ECML180]

But I dont think any of the signs on the metrolink road junctions are of the type that are obscure , for instance as Edwin_m said the white and red no entry sign is a pretty basic road sign I think . And I would expect everyone should have a knowledge of what that is

Agreed! Even if someone forgets what the tram only sign means you'd think they could work it our from the pictures too

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Agreed! Even if someone forgets what the tram only sign means you'd think they could work it our from the pictures too

You may well believe that, but four incidents in quick succession do tell a tale of their own.

Was it outside the large Metropole Hotel on The Promenade in Blackpool where cars and trams shared the same road area for many years, but where car driving visitors to that resort could be taken aback upon?

 

[455driver]

You may well believe that, but four incidents in quick succession do tell a tale of their own.

Yes of course it does, some car drivers are as thick as sh+t!

Was it outside the large Metropole Hotel on The Promenade in Blackpool where cars and trams shared the same road area for many years, but where car driving visitors to that resort could be taken aback upon?

Ignorance of the law is no defence!
I have been to Blackpool a couple of times (must take the kids to see the illuminations some time) and if I wasnt sure what the sign meant I either took an educated guess or didnt drive past it!

 

[edwin_m]

Agreed! Even if someone forgets what the tram only sign means you'd think they could work it our from the pictures too

Some people might think it just means "beware of trams" - the pedestrian "look both ways" signs at tramway crossings are blue as well. Some people might just not recognise the item on it as a tram, as it doesn't look much like a Metrolink tram and is actually quite like a bus at first glance.

And basically, never underestimate the stupidity of a proportion of the general public!

I agree the "Except Trams" on a no entry seems pretty pointless, but I think the reasoning is that if someone sees a plain no entry sign they might assume no vehicle of any sort will pass it and act accordingly.

 

[ECML180]

It's not as if the tram driver will get confused, they never have any circumstances where a no-entry sign *will* apply to them!

I agree the "Except Trams" on a no entry seems pretty pointless

A terminus station where the tram has to continue after the 'arrival' platform and reverse back onto the 'departure' platform where the track ahead is a loop towards the 'departure' platform?

You may well believe that, but four incidents in quick succession do tell a tale of their own.

The incidents I've seen are someone driving off roadway onto segregated tram track and someone driving into the path of an oncoming tram. Now these clearly are issues bigger than signage and would have been just as possible/severe with a bridalway or bus substituted. Clearly driving off the road or in front of something big and hard are driving competence issues!

And basically, never underestimate the stupidity of a proportion of the general public!

The golden rule!

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Indeed, I ran over 50 meetings that reviewed in detail the plans for individual parts of Metrolink,

Gosh! And you didn't lose your driving license after running over the 49th meeting?

 

[muz379]

I don't know why they even need the 'except trams' on the no entry sign. It's not as if the tram driver will get confused, they never have any circumstances where a no-entry sign *will* apply to them!

I think they "need" the no entry except trams sign because for the street running sections the drivers of the trams are to obey signs just like other traffic
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

You may well believe that, but four incidents in quick succession do tell a tale of their own.

They tell their own 4 little tales of poor drivers getting their comeuppance at the price of commuters on the tram network .


What story is told by the countless thousands of drivers that have successfully navigated the road and tram junctions on the new airport line since it has opened ?