Michael Wand's "Plan B" ideas for alternative High Speed

[GrimsbyPacer]

http://data.parliament.uk/writtenev.../the-economic-case-for-hs2/written/12600.html

...Route operation: the Plan B route on the map is, in effect, a major upgrade of the Midland Main Line. If built, it would give Manchester and Leeds, Wolverhampton, Birmingham and Coventry a second main line each to London, with Bradford getting its first direct line for decades. The scheme would be operated with the MML but in competition with the train operators on the West Coast and East Coast Main Lines...

I stumbled across this HS2 counter proposal which looks interesting. It has a map showing a London to Sheffield route with branches to Birmingham, Leeds, Bradford and Manchester. This uses the Midland mainline for much of the route and has connections shown too.

 

[higthomas]

Loving the high speed trains to Southport!

On a serious note, I think it's a silly idea, although there are good aspects to it. But quotes like this

Unlike HS2, it follows existing rail and motorway corridors where possible.

kind of ruin it. (In terms of practicality. Building a newline next to an old one just wastes pointlessly large amounts of money knocking down large swathes of towns that have clustered around existing railways.)

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

I liked the idea for the East Midlands. With onward connections from the airport to the three main cities.
I also think the link to the current lines in Birmingham and Manchester and West Yorks should be looked at by HS2.
I guess it wilk be slower than WCML from Manchester to Birmingham though. But I think more areas would benefit from this Plan B despite it's problems than HS2 and it's poor rail links.

 

[pablo]

If that's the quality of evidence to MPs, then there's no hope of sensible decisions.

 

[Blamethrower]

wow it looks if they've done HS"Follow the M1".

I would love to see how they propose getting another railway through the centre of Luton, bye bye Leagrave (hmm, maybe not such a bad plan then)

 

[Jonny]

While I think HS2 is a good idea, my main concern is that the terminal is still in the Euston/Camden/Islington area (King's Cross/St. Pancras are also in Camden). The best "final sites" are London Bridge, Waterloo and Liverpool Street for access to the City which would need building alongside or immediately above the existing incoming 'classic' lines.

 

[AM9]

wow it looks if they've done HS"Follow the M1".

I would love to see how they propose getting another railway through the centre of Luton, bye bye Leagrave (hmm, maybe not such a bad plan then)

Tunnel, it might be safer.

 

[Deerfold]

Some of the trains are planned to go through the Thameslink Tunnel? I wonder which they they would replace? Presumably this means CC HS2 trains only which can manage with overhead power and third rail?

Oh, and Leeds Bradford airport needs rebuilding somewhere else...

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

Some of the trains are planned to go through the Thameslink Tunnel? I wonder which they they would replace? Presumably this means CC HS2 trains only which can manage with overhead power and third rail?

Oh, and Leeds Bradford airport needs rebuilding somewhere else...

HS1 Javalin trains can run on both so it's clearly possible. I would have prefered a St Pancras end so Eurostar is connected. But the thameslink station is still closer than Euston.
I don't believe airport connections are essential. I just liked the route from London to Leeds/Manchester and Birmingham.

 

[edwin_m]

While I think HS2 is a good idea, my main concern is that the terminal is still in the Euston/Camden/Islington area (King's Cross/St. Pancras are also in Camden). The best "final sites" are London Bridge, Waterloo and Liverpool Street for access to the City which would need building alongside or immediately above the existing incoming 'classic' lines.

Only a minority of passengers want to go to the City and most of them will be commuters on shorter-distance services. Somewhere convenient for the West End is likely to be more popular as well as being a shorter route to reach it.

 

[Deerfold]

HS1 Javalin trains can run on both so it's clearly possible. I would have prefered a St Pancras end so Eurostar is connected. But the thameslink station is still closer than Euston.
I don't believe airport connections are essential. I just liked the route from London to Leeds/Manchester and Birmingham.

i don't doubt it's possible. However it appears to provide much less capacity (due to smaller trains) without being obviously cheaper.

The supporters of this scheme do seem to think airport connections are essential.