Michelle Handforth, Network Rail Regional Managing Director resigns

[Peter Mugridge]

Ops staff now, have to live within, or supposed to live within an hours travelling time, and a maximum of a 14 hr day door to door.

The media comment suggests that she was mostly working from home and travelling only for main meetings.

That sounds to me like a very good way of not getting as familiar with the territory as one should be in such a position; surely questions should also be getting asked about who approved such a non-standard arrangement and why?

 

[Djgr]

The media comment suggests that she was mostly working from home and travelling only for main meetings.

That sounds to me like a very good way of not getting as familiar with the territory as one should be in such a position; surely questions should also be getting asked about who approved such a non-standard arrangement and why?

Too many people think that they can solve business problems whilst sitting in their jimjams.

 

[Master29]

A good manager doesn’t necessarily need experience of the job those they’re managing are doing. It’s being able to ask the right questions, make the right decisions in a timely manner, and have the interpersonal skills.
There are people who are brilliant at their job, but would be utterly useless as a manager.

In other words, wing it until you're found out.

 

[SamYeager]

Someone doesn't have to have risen the whole way through, but they also shouldn't be thrown into a top level management position with absolutely no experience, there should also be some level of learning before the job, no just to get them used to it, but yo check they have the right attitude.

I believe up above it was mentioned that she had been commercial director at one of the TOCs so she had previous exposure to the railway. It also depends what those advertising the job envisaged as the requirements. Since she got the job I imagine that operations experience wasn't a requirement.

 

[BrianW]

BBC News today publicly reports Ms Handforth‘s resignation and she admitted her skillsets didn’t match the requirements of the job.

In that case who appointed her and why ??

This is key. I'm sad for the individual and her family that 'it didn't work out'. 3.5 years is a 'good stint' in a 'high-pressure job' and I note a link by her to an item about wellbeing. At least she has the comfort of having had a good salary and WFH (and pension and handshake?). And she didn't have to waste hundreds of hours stood around waiting for trains
Was Andrew Haines not only on her train but maybe involved in the determination of job description/ person specification/ assessment of skill profile/ selection?
What accountability has he? His head close to the block? A scapegoat must be found and sacrificed (pour encourager les autres??)
I wish Ms Handforth well in her future and hopefully better matched career! No-one died (?).

 

[Amlag]

She realised that after getting over £1 million pounds in salary in the 3 years she was in the job? When she realises she is actually held accountable she suddenly realises she is not the right person.

This is key. I'm sad for the individual and her family that 'it didn't work out'. 3.5 years is a 'good stint' in a 'high-pressure job' and I note a link by her to an item about wellbeing. At least she has the comfort of having had a good salary and WFH (and pension and handshake?). And she didn't have to waste hundreds of hours stood around waiting for trains
Was Andrew Haines not only on her train but maybe involved in the determination of job description/ person specification/ assessment of skill profile/ selection?
What accountability has he? His head close to the block? A scapegoat must be found and sacrificed (pour encourager les autres??)
I wish Ms Handforth well in her future and hopefully better matched career! No-one died (?).

I wonder what role NR part time Chairman Hendy played in her appointment ?

 

[Horizon22]

In other words, wing it until you're found out.

Not really. I know of people who excel in their field but would make awful managers. Just promoting people who are good technically doesn’t mean they could hack it in (or would even like) management roles.

There are also managers who have zero appreciation of the technical experts in the field. It works both ways. Management (and leadership) is a multi-faceted and complex concept and there isn’t - nor should there be - a one size fits all approach on what is a “good manager”.

 

[Mr. SW]

The sign of a good manager is they ask questions: What is that thing and what does it do?, Why are you building that wall there? Why does that cost £25,000? etc. It is surprising how much you can pick up. Too many managers assume or are too afraid to show that they know little about the subject, particularly if they've entered a new business field.

Oh! And another thing! Very important!

Be nice to people.

 

[TPO]

Of course it is, see it every day in many walks of life.

They never get held accountable and put the blame on their underlings, while being paid excessive amounts for their lack of tangible skills. Usually spend two or three years in the job before moving on to their next victim just before the proverbial hits the fan and only really care about getting some good PR to promote themselves in advance of their next job application. The entire ‘management culture’ in this country has become a gravy train and we are all paying for it.

Just systematic of business all over. You get a piece of paper from a university in business management and they think they know everything. When I started on the railway nearly all senior managers had worked there way up from the bottom. Yes there were graduate trainees but they weren't let loose on anything important until they had learnt the job. Otherwise the staff would eat them for breakfast. That was 35 years ago and they were on the whole career railwaymen first and career managers second. Now thew swan in cock things up and bugger off when it all goes wrong. With a payout. This is unfortunately the norm now in most businesses. Remember there are three ways of doing things on the railway.
1) The right way.
2) The wrong way.
3) The railway way, which is usually an amalgamation of the first two,mostly!

Nail. Head. On.

Too little understanding that saying does not equal doing. Too many blag artists around and not enough accountability.

TPO

 

[Trestrol]

Too many people think that they can solve business problems whilst sitting in their jimjams.

And don't realise that when their company realises they don't need them in the companies office, they outsource their jobs abroad. And then they will have plenty of time to sit in their jimjams at home.

 

[Recessio]

Not really. I know of people who excel in their field but would make awful managers. Just promoting people who are good technically doesn’t mean they could hack it in (or would even like) management roles.

There are also managers who have zero appreciation of the technical experts in the field. It works both ways. Management (and leadership) is a multi-faceted and complex concept and there isn’t - nor should there be - a one size fits all approach on what is a “good manager”.

I work in academia and this is exceptionally common. All of the best management and professional services staff generally have come from outside of academia. Conversely, some of the academics who have "climbed the greasy pole" have been utterly useless.

I also think it is important to get outsiders in to any industry, and especially those that are safety-critical such as railways, to help prevent it being too self-serving and risk cover-up, but also to spur innovation rather than things being done "because that's how we've always done it".

 

[Annetts key]

A "good" manager may come from either within or from outside an organisation. It's about the attitude and skills of an individual, not just about their technical skills. But they also have to be able to learn about the system, the organisation and get an appreciation of the technical aspects, as well as listen to experts and take advice. Similarly, they must have, or learn people skills.

"because that's how we've always done it".

But often there are often good reasons for why things are done the way they are. Maybe that way was found to be the safest or the most efficient or best practice in the past. Maybe it's the result of a procedure that was changed due to the findings of an accident investigation. Of course, it may be possible to change or improve things. But a good manager should try to find out the why first.

"You cannae change the laws of physics"...

It's also the case that the railway has learned the hard way a number of times in the past, where history has repeated itself more than once.

 

[Djgr]

I work in academia and this is exceptionally common. All of the best management and professional services staff generally have come from outside of academia. Conversely, some of the academics who have "climbed the greasy pole" have been utterly useless.

I also think it is important to get outsiders in to any industry, and especially those that are safety-critical such as railways, to help prevent it being too self-serving and risk cover-up, but also to spur innovation rather than things being done "because that's how we've always done it".

Of course this would present a more compelling argument if the higher education sector wasn't so demonstrably broken.

 

[irish_rail]

On the railway, its the little touches like riding in the cab of the train and chatting to the staff to truly understand the business that make a difference. By all accounts this lady failed on this level and was no doubt only interested in spending as little time as possible on Western territory.

 

[BrianW]

On the railway, its the little touches like riding in the cab of the train and chatting to the staff to truly understand the business that make a difference. By all accounts this lady failed on this level and was no doubt only interested in spending as little time as possible on Western territory.

Irish-rail, was the sainted lady seen in Plymouth? Or west thereof? Maybe on a Zoom call?

 

[ChiefPlanner]

On the railway, its the little touches like riding in the cab of the train and chatting to the staff to truly understand the business that make a difference. By all accounts this lady failed on this level and was no doubt only interested in spending as little time as possible on Western territory.

Mentioned before that the late Gerry Fiennes spent part of every working day engaging with staff at all levels as General Manager Eastern Region - be it train crew , station and yard staff and signal boxes. He spent a solid day out on the patch likewise. Not in his saloon either . Some much later "innovater" referred to it as "management by walking around" ......

In my own experience - hugely valuable - giving staff to spend say the first 10 mins in getting things of their chests , followed by very useful dialogue......

 

[Wolfie]

Just for comparison the Prime Minister currently earns £167k, plus expenses, and he’s (allegedly) running a country. I‘m sure that someone managing a Network Rail region could get by on that level of salary.

David Cameron, very cynically given his independent means, cut the PM's salary. That, which has continued to this day, was then used to knock public sector employees who earn something approaching market rates. Why exactly should the public sector always get clobbered?

Pay peanuts and get monkeys - some might say that PMs have reflected that.....

Always strange how many people feel they can comment on someone's - usually in a management role - competence and salary/benefits package even though they've got no management experience themselves and would not want others doing a pile-in on themselves and their own competnency and experience (but they're happy to do so with someone senior). Always smacks of jealousy around pay rather than anything else, and it's pretty odious.

Yup. Always digs at the public sector too.

A good manager doesn’t necessarily need experience of the job those they’re managing are doing. It’s being able to ask the right questions, make the right decisions in a timely manner, and have the interpersonal skills.
There are people who are brilliant at their job, but would be utterly useless as a manager.

Yup

Very true, but not being “on the spot” is not going to help. Not being prepared to move says a lot about her, I’m afraid.

Family - husband settled in his own career, children settled in school? Welcome to the 21st Century....

A fairly meagre salary in context and nothing like what could be earned in the wholly private sector. £300K is modest for this level of responsibility. NR Western is a very large organisation with a significant public responsibility. Citing what the PM earns isn't helpful.

A big problem is the railway doesn't get the best people because it isn't the most attractive proposition for C-suite employees; you can earn a lot more abroad with the right skillset.

I totally agree.

 

[Mikey C]

Family - husband settled in his own career, children settled in school? Welcome to the 21st Century....

Nobody forced her to apply for the job. It's not as if she was already working for NR and was relocated by them.

 

[PG]

Nobody forced her to apply for the job. It's not as if she was already working for NR and was relocated by them.

There ought to be a copy of the job spec kicking around somewhere online if anyone can locate it? Then we could see if part time/WFH was mentioned (or not!).

 

[Master29]

Not really. I know of people who excel in their field but would make awful managers. Just promoting people who are good technically doesn’t mean they could hack it in (or would even like) management roles.

There are also managers who have zero appreciation of the technical experts in the field. It works both ways. Management (and leadership) is a multi-faceted and complex concept and there isn’t - nor should there be - a one size fits all approach on what is a “good manager”.

On that I agree. Certainly worth their weight in gold in such cases.

 

[RT4038]

Nobody forced her to apply for the job. It's not as if she was already working for NR and was relocated by them.

Maybe she was Head hunted? Nobody forced NR to take her on on those conditions.....

 

[BrianW]

Maybe she was Head hunted? Nobody forced NR to take her on on those conditions.....

Folk in such circles are often 'encouraged'/ nudged/ wink-wink .... oink-oink. The 'talent pool' may be shallow, including of 'head hunters'.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Pay peanuts and get monkeys - some might say that PMs have reflected that.....

How many peanuts can you get for £167k

(I do take the point though. I wonder what additional benefits senior NR managers get over/above ‘basic’ salary…)

 

[The Planner]

How many peanuts can you get for £167k

(I do take the point though. I wonder what additional benefits senior NR managers get over/above ‘basic’ salary…)

If senior is Band 2 or above then £6 or 7k car allowance which is paid as part of salary, private healthcare (opt outable and paid in salary) for family, percentage bonus based on overall NR score card. Probably a couple of other bits Ive missed. Those who have travel get first class once at Band 3.

 

[Moderating team]

This thread has run its course and we can't see that there is anything further that needs to be said.