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Midland Metro - full closure from Saturday 13 November 2021 (also Sydney)

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duncanp

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I wouldn't be wholly surprised if rail services to The Hawthorns station are pulled that day too, as they would otherwise completely swamped.


:lol:

Yes, that would make a lot of sense, wouldn't it.

The train service between Birmingham, Jewellery Quarter and The Hawthorns provides a useful alternative to the tram.

So instead of increasing the train service to cope with the extra demand, lets withdraw the train service completely.

The sensible option of running shuttle buses to The Hawthorns from Smethwick Galton Bridge, which has services from all three central Birmingham stations and could thus help spread the load, will of course never be considered.
 
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Wolfie

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Yes, that would make a lot of sense, wouldn't it.

The train service between Birmingham, Jewellery Quarter and The Hawthorns provides a useful alternative to the tram.

So instead of increasing the train service to cope with the extra demand, lets withdraw the train service completely.

The sensible option of running shuttle buses to The Hawthorns from Smethwick Galton Bridge, which has services from all three central Birmingham stations and could thus help spread the load, will of course never be considered.
I didn't say that l thought it was sensible. However, the railway has form for doing such things... Not to mention the ongoing staffing issues that WMT have....
 

duncanp

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I didn't say that l thought it was sensible. However, the railway has form for doing such things... Not to mention the ongoing staffing issues that WMT have....

I realise you weren't advocating a withdrawal of services to The Hawthorns.

But you are correct in saying that West Midlands Trains has form for doing such things.

Expect to hear wibble such as "...staff shortages...", "...this is to keep you all safe...", "..safety is our top priority.."...................... etc. etc .etc.
 

Ianno87

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Why bother with buses - it's only about a mile walk from Smethwick Galton Bridge?
 

Dave W

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Don't normal bus services also stop near the ground anyway?
The Birmingham Road has been largely closed post game now. Of course before 1995 you’d have to get off at Rolfe Street anyway - fans could be directed that way.

But how will I get to the Sportsman in West Brom and back again before the game (don’t say walk! :lol:)
 

Wolfie

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The Birmingham Road has been largely closed post game now. Of course before 1995 you’d have to get off at Rolfe Street anyway - fans could be directed that way.

But how will I get to the Sportsman in West Brom and back again before the game (don’t say walk! :lol:)
First time l have ever heard sportsman and West Brom in the same sentence. Methinks that you may be going Shank's pony or drinking Adam's ale....
 

duncanp

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And it looks like the extension along Broad Street to Edgbaston Village is going to be delayed until 2022 as a result.


Fury as Broad Street trams 'not running until 2022' after service suspended​

Westside BID manager Mike Olley slams the entire Metro operation and says cost of tram tracks should include lost business revenue

The brand new £83 million West Midlands Metro tram track from Centenary Square to Hagley Road is not expected to go into service until 2022, BirminghamLive can reveal.

The Westside Phase Two line was due to start running "in December" with hospitality businesses on Broad Street looking forward to a much-needed income boost before Christmas after the Covid-19 lockdowns.


But sources have confirmed to BirminghamLive not to expect trams to reach Hagley Road until the New Year now that all West Midlands Metro tram services have been suspended for what looks set to be at least four weeks because of chassis cracks.

BirminghamLive understands some trams will still be seen running in the weeks ahead, but they will either be new models being tested, repaired trams being tested or drivers being trained. None will carry passengers.

Read more No trams on Corporation Street which has been left for four months without service

It is almost four months since a tram in service last ran along Corporation Street because the whole track had to be rebuilt by the Midland Metro Alliance from July 25 - October 29.

The track had only been in service for five years and two months after it was opened on May 26 2016 by Black Sabbath legend Ozzy Osbourne and the official reason for its failure has still not been made public pending investigations.

"We need the cost of the tram network to be properly audited so that it takes into account how much money businesses have lost while it was being built and now while it is not even running at all.

"That would probably double the cost of the entire scheme - and at what price for the city?"

West Midlands Metro routes and costs​

After work first began in 2012, the cost of extending the tram line from Snow Hill to Grand Central to Five Ways and from Bull Street to Digbeth will be more than £500 million.

The line from Grand Central to 54 Hagley Road is called the Westside route

It is 1.2 miles long and has been built in two stages at a combined forecast cost of £149 million.

Phase One from Grand Central to lower Broad Street took 912 days to complete before being opened to the public on December 11, 2019.

It cost £65.98 million to introduce two stops - Paradise Street / Birmingham Town Hall and Centenary Square / Library of Birmingham.

"We need the cost of the tram network to be properly audited so that it takes into account how much money businesses have lost while it was being built and now while it is not even running at all.

"That would probably double the cost of the entire scheme - and at what price for the city?"

West Midlands Metro routes and costs​

After work first began in 2012, the cost of extending the tram line from Snow Hill to Grand Central to Five Ways and from Bull Street to Digbeth will be more than £500 million.

The line from Grand Central to 54 Hagley Road is called the Westside route

It is 1.2 miles long and has been built in two stages at a combined forecast cost of £149 million.

Phase One from Grand Central to lower Broad Street took 912 days to complete before being opened to the public on December 11, 2019.

It cost £65.98 million to introduce two stops - Paradise Street / Birmingham Town Hall and Centenary Square / Library of Birmingham.

Westside issues​

As well as road restrictions, problems faced by Westside businesses in the past two years have included coping with the Covid-19 pandemic and the loss of East European workers because of Brexit changes.

Westside BID manager Mike Olley, who cycles 20 miles per day to and from work, said: "The Midland Metro Alliance (track builders) and West Midlands Metro (tram operators) are very good at ribbon cutting and cheesy grin pictures, but what we need are trams running!

"With so many changes to the local road network and problems with West Midlands Railway, we need the tram so that people can get to and from and work and for people to come to have a great time here to keep our employees in work.

Read more: Extremely angry' Corporation Street businesses should get compensation over Metro works

"But there have been so many cock-ups over the years and they haven't taken advantage of the lockdowns to speed things up to help our businesses to get back on their feet.

"The original Corporation Street line was late, then this year they've had to dig it up and relay it and now they haven't even had one service down there since it was finished at the end of October.

"On Friday when it was announced the entire service would be suspended for 'four weeks', I asked if the trams would be running up Broad Street in December and didn't get a reply, another question shoved under their duvet.

"There seems to be endless pots of money going into basic things.

"Yet while all of this is going on - and as someone who cycles to and from work every day - I see how the city's road are still full of potholes.

"Why can't we get anything right and why has it taken almost a decade of actual work to get the line from Snow Hill up to Five Ways and it still hasn't seen a tram go past Centenary Square?

"What on earth are we subscribing to with these huge amounts of public money being spent?

"Yes, we appreciate what they are trying to do, but it's failing miserably.

"What is the real cost of all of this work - you only have to look at the state of Corporation Street to see the effect years of work has had down there on its businesses.

"The lost revenues are immense, there are businesses that have failed, and nobody seems to care.

"All I can say is that I thank the pubic for still managing to get here to support our night time economy irrespective of what has happened to our road network. I really do admire their ability to get here."

Other challenges​

Although Westside Phase One from Grand Central to Centenary Square opened on December 11, 2019, Broad Street has had to cope with numerous other traffic changes in the past three years with bus services re-routed as a result.

Paradise Queensway at the bottom end of Broad Street has been closed to traffic since September 4, 2018.

The Five Ways underpass was closed to traffic more than two years ago on June 3, 2019.

In October 2019, a new bus lane was introduced to stop drivers from going up Sheepcote Street towards Broad Street - though thousands have been fined as a result of ignoring it.

In June this year, Birmingham City Council then introduced the Clean Air Zone charge to limit the estimated number of one-in-four non-compliant vehicles crossing the A4540 Middle Ring Road, which goes across the top of Five Ways Island.

Anyone not exempt and with a non-compliant car would be faced with an £8 daily charge, midnight to midnight.
 

P Binnersley

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Trams may be back before Christmas.

On Tuesday, the operator said at this stage it was "impossible to say exactly when services will resume", although a full timetable is expected to be running in just over two weeks.

West Midlands Metro said: "Customers can be assured we are working as quickly as possible to restore services, and we sincerely apologise for this further suspension of services."

West Midland mayor Andy Street said "I can't give you an exact date, but I can tell you the permanent repair is going well and I'm confident that will be signed off as safe and then I hope that people will be able to confirm very shortly a date for return of service within the one month target we gave ourselves originally,"
 

P Binnersley

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AgentGemini

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They need to hurry their arses up, with Abellio having managed to make things even worse on both their Snow Hill and Stour Valley lines!

Interestingly, Abellio have plumped for CAF 196s for the Snow Hill and Shrewsbury lines. I wonder what surprises they will conceal?

As for Andy Street: he may indeed not have been around when the Urbos trams were ordered for the MM, however he stomped and banged pans about holding Abellio-WMR to account for their ****e running of the heavy rail franchise. In the end, he did **** all, let them off the hook and thus has allowed them to maul services, hard worn staff and passengers to despair.

The return of the Metro will alleviate quite a lot of pressure, I suspect.
 

DanNCL

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I would love to know how Midland Metro have come to the conclusion that they'll be able to have all of their trams fixed within a few weeks, when Sydney reckon their own identical trams will take 18 months to fix. I note that the network in Newcastle (Australia) which also uses the same trams has now joined Birmingham and Syndey in withdrawing them. Only Canberra, Kaohsiung and Mauritius have these trams still in service now.

If this is to continue for much longer, Midland Metro would be wise to explore the options of hiring in compatible trams from other networks, including from outside of the UK. Unlike European trains, many European trams would be compatible with the UK's networks.
 

Man of Kent

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I would love to know how Midland Metro have come to the conclusion that they'll be able to have all of their trams fixed within a few weeks, when Sydney reckon their own identical trams will take 18 months to fix. I note that the network in Newcastle (Australia) which also uses the same trams has now joined Birmingham and Syndey in withdrawing them. Only Canberra, Kaohsiung and Mauritius have these trams still in service now.

If this is to continue for much longer, Midland Metro would be wise to explore the options of hiring in compatible trams from other networks, including from outside of the UK. Unlike European trains, many European trams would be compatible with the UK's networks.
There's no indication on the Transport New South Wales website that Newcastle is not currently running - only L1 in Sydney is suspended. Newcastle appears not to have run a couple of weekends ago, but that was it.

I've read elsewhere that the Sydney route shares a notable characteristic with Midland Metro, which is a tight curve on a gradient. The stresses on the trams going through two planes at once as they drop down from Corporation Street to Stephenson Street may well have contributed to the problem.
 

duncanp

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There's no indication on the Transport New South Wales website that Newcastle is not currently running - only L1 in Sydney is suspended. Newcastle appears not to have run a couple of weekends ago, but that was it.

I've read elsewhere that the Sydney route shares a notable characteristic with Midland Metro, which is a tight curve on a gradient. The stresses on the trams going through two planes at once as they drop down from Corporation Street to Stephenson Street may well have contributed to the problem.

And also the tight curve after the Victoria Square (Town Hall) stop where the tram swings right into Pinfold Street.
 

tspaul26

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I saw a tram passing through the Town Hall stop towards Library when I was in the office earlier today so there seems to be some progress at least.
 

Vespa

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Interesting that some MPs in Birmingham are trying to blame Andy Street, the (Conservative) Mayor of the West Midlands for the mess, saying he needs to "..get a grip..".

The contract to buy the CAF Urbos 3 trams from Spain was signed in 2012, which was, er, 5 years before Andy Street was first elected.
Never let the truth get in the way of a bit of political point scoring, it worked for Diane Abbott :lol:

I would imagine many light rail undertakings will be reconsidering their options on new trams if they haven't already signed a contract, there's brand relational damage, the factory would need to find out why it's happening on such a scale, e.g. materials, poor workmanship, was any corners cut during manufacture ?, they would need to look into the root cause and enact remedial action.
 
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birchesgreen

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Blaming Andy Street even if it isn't his fault is fair game to be honest as he is very keen to claim credit for things he had nothing/little to do with.
 

city dweller

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In 2019 a further deal was done with CAF in advance of some of the metro extensions. The first eight I think have been delivered and TFWM are looking to run a skeleton service with the new model.
 

AgentGemini

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I think CAF need to thoroughly investigate their manufacturing as a whole, given Australia, Birmingham, and the affairs on heavy rail 195s and the WMT 196s. A mere armchair myself, but if I was a transport contractor, I'd be steering clear of them at this moment in time.
 

bussnapperwm

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Blaming Andy Street even if it isn't his fault is fair game to be honest as he is very keen to claim credit for things he had nothing/little to do with.
He does make a certain resident of SW1A 0AA look quiet at times with his publicity hogging.
 

The_Van

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Fans travelling to the Hawthorns for the WBA v Reading fixture tomorrow have been advised to avoid using the train as the service is reduced and subject to short formation.

Add to this there's still no metro.

That leaves driving or getting the bus on already overcrowded roads.

What an absolute shambles
 

Sheddyone

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WM Metro update 10th Dec has now confirmed a phased return to service from sometime next week ...

"Currently nearly half the fleet has received permanent repairs and this work is continuing. Several new trams are also entering the final stages of testing required before they can enter passenger service."

 

daodao

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I think CAF need to thoroughly investigate their manufacturing as a whole, given Australia, Birmingham, and the affairs on heavy rail 195s and the WMT 196s. A mere armchair myself, but if I was a transport contractor, I'd be steering clear of them at this moment in time.
It is disappointing that rolling stock purchasers in the UK have selected cheap Spanish and Italian sub-standard products over the last 30 years since rail vehicle manufacturing in the country that invented the railways sadly left these shores.
 

dgl

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Going from comments on another forum this might not be CAF's fault here, supposedly there are parts where tolerances need to be regularly checked and adjusted which if not done cause the issues they are having and these checks/adjustments are potentially not happening.
Supposedly the Edinburgh Trams that are maintained by CAF themselves are not having the same issues.
 
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edwin_m

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Going from comments on another forum this might not be CAF's fault here, supposedly there are parts where tolerances need to be regularly checked and adjusted which if not done cause the issues they are having and these checks/adjustments are potentially not happening.
Supposedly the Edinburgh Trams that are maintained by CAF themselves are not having the same issues.
It could still be CAF's fault if they haven't communicated this information to the maintainer.
 

dgl

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It could still be CAF's fault if they haven't communicated this information to the maintainer.
Supposedly they have as they have asked for the records of it being done and they are either incomplete or not filled out.
Also supposedly one unit that had been back to CAF for repairs done and was supposedly a test bed of sorts has supposedly ended up as a Christmas tree.
 
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