Miniature railway driving requirements.

[BIGGrobb]

So,

I have epilepsy. If anyone has absence seizures, they will know how you can have good days when you have none, and bad days when they come thick and fast. There are triggers and generally I know what kind of state I'm in when I get up in the morning.
I have just found out I am being banned from driving at my club due to this having had no incidents as a driver and being (probably THE MOST) vigilant driver there.
There are ongoing political issues at the moment and I have just recovered from a short mental health blip I had for a few weeks. Aside from this, I have no idea why after several years of being a textbook driver, the rules are suddenly being changed.

Is there a specific set of rules for 5" and 7.25" gauge locos (electric)? Or should I look into selling up and getting a new hobby?

Andy H

 

[randyrippley]

I suspect public liability insurance is the biggest issue

 

[dakta]

Its an interesting question, ill ask at the club what wed do in that situation, its our ethos where adjustments can be made to try and do what we can do to accommodate, so any restriction of duty would be out of safety or legal necessity (capability, insurance etc).

The difficulty with 5 and 7.25 railways in general is if a driver did go sick its not easy for someone to intervene where in a larger gauge you could potentially have a second man etc

 

[LittleRedTrain]

There was a relatively recent guide 'HS2020' issued by the HSE (https://www.pcmrsg.org.uk/_files/ugd/4dab8c_a71bcd9c062f4bc6b81e3894cfea5f31.pdf) outlining safety guidance for passenger carrying miniature railways.

Under the 'Competence of operational personnel' section it states:

72. You may also need to take steps to prevent operational staff from taking part if they are under the influence of alcohol, drugs or health conditions that may impair their ability to perform their duties safely. Anyone who would be unfit to drive a motor vehicle in a public place is unfit to undertake any safety-critical role.

It may be that if your health condition is considered by the club management to fall under this statement, and with the tightening up of regulations and insurance requirements, they no longer consider the risk acceptable.

I suspect some clubs may be stricter on this than others, and it may be there are ways to mitigate the risk which could be agreed with whoever manages the club's H&S/Insurance (e.g. having a second member of staff with an 'emergency kill switch'), but at the end of the day, it's their neck as well as yours on the line if there's an incident that results in passenger injury.

 

[dakta]

Interesting that it actually makes reference to driving a motor vehicle, I didn't know much of absence seizures but after doing a quick look, whilst the seizure itself doesn't appear to have much long term impact, it does create a loss of awareness for 10-30 seconds, so this could actually be quite substantial in terms of risk and impact in a driving role (especially when you think even a loaded 7.25" battery electric can have have a few hundred kg in metal and batteries, and have 10 x 90kg people and a carriage or two on top as rolling mass).

I think you need to look at it from their side, i appreciate what you say about good and bad days, but from a risk/compliance perspective, how reliable is 'dont worry I'm having a good day' when it comes to the health and safety of the public?

I don't think you should lose the interest in this hobby, nor do I think you should give up on it. I'm absolutely sure nobody wants you to lose what you enjoy and good active operating volunteers are hard to find. You do need to perhaps look at how things look from other perspectives though, especially in todays world where a organisation could itself be held responsible for allowing you to drive if your condition did pose a risk. Some clubs are stricter than others but maybe a risk assessment could be done and accommodations made - it might mean driving with a club member on board, using (if you don't have one as standard) a controller with a quick release dead mans mechanism or some kind of vigilance mechanism, or perhaps you could be allowed to drive when the public aren't on site? It may restrict your enjoyment somewhat but I'd try not to take things too much to heart, realistically it's just about trying to keep people in one peice.

Over the years I have seen multiple people being carted away in ambulances as a result of mishaps on 5" and 7.25" gauge, broken bones and one being a near amputation job, so even though they are 'little' trains they're not to be taken too lightly.

 

[BIGGrobb]

My loco actually has a dead mans handle. The accellerator pops down to zero when any attention is taken away from driving. As for second man, I drive a 7.25" electric on raised level with one single coach which includes passengers. We're not allowed any more than one on the raised level because of H+S.
Thankyou all for the feedback, I feel a lot better in my position now. I honestly felt like I was being bullied as no-one had made any issue of it for years until now.

One more thing though, does this mean that people with all disabilities such as hearing issues, heart issues etc will have to refrain from driving?

Andy H

 

[Chuffing Heck]

My loco actually has a dead mans handle. The accellerator pops down to zero when any attention is taken away from driving. As for second man, I drive a 7.25" electric on raised level with one single coach which includes passengers. We're not allowed any more than one on the raised level because of H+S.
Thankyou all for the feedback, I feel a lot better in my position now. I honestly felt like I was being bullied as no-one had made any issue of it for years until now.

One more thing though, does this mean that people with all disabilities such as hearing issues, heart issues etc will have to refrain from driving?

Andy H

I would assume if those restrictions apply to driving a car, the insurance company will apply them in the same manner, if not more so as you are involving the public.

 

[Titfield]

Have you actually asked "the club" for a written explanation as to why you are no longer permitted to drive?

 

[dakta]

I spent most of the day today whizzing around on a raised track, the locos we use (including my own) will automatically stop if we lose grip (sprung lever for power) or if we lose grip of the controller casing, it won't brake though. The problem with this gauge is if something happened to me, nobody could productively step in as what can you realistically do if you're sitting behind a driver. Even being aware that they aren't aware might not be easy let alone doing something about it.

As far how others are impacted, it depends on the disability/health condition, there are members at my club that have locos and no longer drive. I don't know if the club has stopped them, or if they have self restricted due to their health or simply don't want to anymore, but we do have a lot of membership who have locos and perhaps used to drive and now don't. In fact getting people into the driving seat is often quite a challenge.

Personally I'm very pro-driving in the sense that if someone wants to drive, within the realms of possibility and reasonable risk I'd support any possible adjustments to keep someone driving if they want it, but we do live in a very safety focused and even litigious society so you do have to balance it.

I'd have a chat with your club, whilst you've taken this personally, and there could be politics (aint there always) there's also the chance this is nothing personal at all. I think you need a chat to see where you stand and see if there's any adjustments that could be made to satisfy their assessment of the risk whilst allowing you to enjoy your hobby. Public safety will always have to come first though.

 

[DelW]

Or should I look into selling up and getting a new hobby?

Andy H

While I realise that you would miss the driving role if insurance or safety rules mean that you have to give it up, are there other activities available that you might take on instead?
They might be public facing (e.g. meet & greet, tickets, refreshments), or not (e.g. track or loco engineering).
At least they would keep you involved and in touch with the club and its members, rather than giving up on the hobby entirely.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do!

 

[Barclay]

I had to step back from driving at a standard gauge heritage railway when diagnosed with type 1 diabetes, due to the risks associated with hypoglycemia. After discussion with a GP, the railway agreed I could continue firing, provided I checked and logged my blood sugar levels at regular intervals. I thought this was all fair enough, even though I was sad to lose my driver's ticket.