Minibus speed limits and license requirements

[UP13]

In my experience schools make you do a course before allowing you to drive. While not a D1 licence, a recognised certificate looks better in court than no training at all.

 

[Den Robert]

The college I work at recently had myself and a collegue trained as minibus driver assessors. Our trainer, an ex-traffic cop and current accident investigator, made it very clear that teachers require D1 as they are responsible for the passengers and they are paid to be responsible so it's regarded as hire and reward. My employer insists D1 isn't required. I spoke to DVLA staff last year who told me D1 wasn't required. After my employers request to assess drivers without D1 I called DVLA who said they do need D1. The DVLA do not make it clear and apparently it is waiting for a test case. I told my employer I would not assess drivers without D1 and their response (from their solicitor) that 'we take bigger risks than that every day'. Good luck to them as I refuse to be called to the test case when someone faces driving unlicensed and uninsured .. or worse.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The college I work at recently had myself and a collegue trained as minibus driver assessors. Our trainer, an ex-traffic cop and current accident investigator, made it very clear that teachers require D1 as they are responsible for the passengers and they are paid to be responsible so it's regarded as hire and reward. My employer insists D1 isn't required. I spoke to DVLA staff last year who told me D1 wasn't required. After my employers request to assess drivers without D1 I called DVLA who said they do need D1. The DVLA do not make it clear and apparently it is waiting for a test case. I told my employer I would not assess drivers without D1 and their response (from their solicitor) that 'we take bigger risks than that every day'. Good luck to them as I refuse to be called to the test case when someone faces driving unlicensed and uninsured .. or worse.

FWIW I agree with you - to me the exceptions are clearly intended to allow voluntary organisations (the likes of Scouting) to use minibuses, not teachers/schools.

 

[hooverboy]

Minibuses aren't limited to 62mph. They can do 70+ just as cars can.

depends on the configuration of the minibus.

might have to brush up on this myself.
IIRC. 16 seats or less does not class as a minibus as such. can be driven at normal speed on a normal licence as long as you have the correct category( some younger drivers may well get caught out on this one as they are allowed less vehicle types these days..it's category D1 and it may or may not be there/may have a restriction code)

category D is for 16 seats or above, and is a seperate test PSV/PCV.restricted to 63MPH/100KMH and cannot use outside lane of motorway.

 

[Bletchleyite]

depends on the configuration of the minibus.

might have to brush up on this myself.
IIRC. 16 seats or less does not class as a minibus as such. can be driven at normal speed on a normal licence as long as you have the correct category( some younger drivers may well get caught out on this one as they are allowed less vehicle types these days..it's category D1 and it may or may not be there/may have a restriction code)

category D is for 16 seats or above, and is a seperate test PSV/PCV.restricted to 63MPH/100KMH and cannot use outside lane of motorway.

Not quite correct there.

Category B (car) is up to and including 9 seats including the driver, up to 3500kg (above that and it's C1).
Category D1 (minibus) is between 10 and 17 seats including the driver.
Category D (bus/coach) is anything above that i.e. 18+ total.

Buses and coaches up to 12m long inclusive are permitted 70mph on the motorway (and if so permitted and capable can be driven in lane 3). However, from a certain date (a quick Google suggests it was somewhere in 2001) all D1 and D vehicles except petrol ones (oddly, as there are hardly any!) have had to legally have a limiter fitted limiting them to 100km/h (62mph) so unless coasting downhill they can't actually achieve this (and therefore cannot be driven in lane 3).

Regarding licences the split is in 1997, which I annoyingly just missed. Before that you got D1 (101), the 101 being "not for hire or reward". After that you didn't but there is still an exception allowing a minibus to be driven within tighter constraints.

 

[Gooner18]

No, it doesn't. He set out the cases under which young people can drive over 8 passengers on a car licence.

This is also incorrect, there are a number of criteria which must be fulfilled for non D1 drivers to be able to drive a minibuses in the UK (commonly referred to as the D1 derogation)

Over 21
Held license for 2 or more years
No Hire or Reward (purpose of journey)
Must be providing service on a voluntary basis (driver)
No trailer
Vehicle must have GVW of 3.5t (4.25 t if adapted for wheelchair users)

Indeed, all the above means that young people can’t drive over 8 passengers on a car licence. Which is what I said.

No, it doesn't. He set out the cases under which young people can drive over 8 passengers on a car licence.

I have to agree with the normal standard licence , I.e after 01/97 you can not drive vehicles they can carry more than 8 passengers and a driver , also vehicles must be below 3.5 T GVW

 

[Bletchleyite]

I have to agree with the normal standard licence , I.e after 01/97 you can not drive vehicles they can carry more than 8 passengers and a driver , also vehicles must be below 3.5 T GVW

This is not true, there are circumstances where you can.

Roughly:
- Vehicle must be under 3500kg, or 4250 if a wheelchair lift is fitted (this excludes most 17 seat buses except "Minibus Lite" and some very old LDVs but does include some 15s and near enough all 12s).
- Max 17 seats including driver
- Driver must be 21 or over with at least 2 years licenced driving experience, and under 70 unless a PCV medical has been done
- Vehicle must be operated "on behalf of a non-commercial body and not for hire or reward" (typically this in practice means under a Section 19 Permit, and in my view excludes personal use unlike D1 101 which allows it)
- Driver may not be paid other than out of pocket expenses
- No trailer may be towed even if B+E is held.

https://ctauk.org/cta-advice-service/faq/who-can-drive-our-minibus-using-section-19-or-22-permits/

(There's also a gov.uk link but it presently contains an error and implies that this is not the case due to the erroneous placing of a "popup info" box)

 

[Gooner18]

This is not true, there are circumstances where you can.

Roughly:
- Vehicle must be under 3500kg, or 4250 if a wheelchair lift is fitted (this excludes most 17 seat buses except "Minibus Lite" and some very old LDVs but does include some 15s and near enough all 12s).
- Max 17 seats including driver
- Driver must be 21 or over with at least 2 years licenced driving experience, and under 70 unless a PCV medical has been done
- Vehicle must be operated "on behalf of a non-commercial body and not for hire or reward" (typically this in practice means under a Section 19 Permit, and in my view excludes personal use unlike D1 101 which allows it)
- Driver may not be paid other than out of pocket expenses
- No trailer may be towed even if B+E is held.

https://ctauk.org/cta-advice-service/faq/who-can-drive-our-minibus-using-section-19-or-22-permits/

(There's also a gov.uk link but it presently contains an error and implies that this is not the case due to the erroneous placing of a "popup info" box)

Well I be , should Of looked into it before posting , learn something new every day and all that , who would of thought it’s was possible with just B1, however like you say trying to get a mini bus that can take 16 passengers that weighs under 3.5 T ain’t gonna happen

 

[Bletchleyite]

Well I be , should Of looked into it before posting , learn something new every day and all that , who would of thought it’s was possible with just B1, however like you say trying to get a mini bus that can take 16 passengers that weighs under 3.5 T ain’t gonna happen

https://www.minibuslite.co.uk/

Minibus Lite is the original and safest school minibus you can drive on a car licence. The only lightweight minibus to pass rigorous and stringent European testing to achieve European Whole Vehicle Type Approval it is also one of only two lightweight minibuses to be approved by Peugeot.

Minibus Lite™ offers the perfect transport solution for schools, academies, colleges and universities by removing the restrictions on who can drive the school minibus. This not only solves logistical problems but saves schools thousands in expensive D1 licence training for their staff.

Hundreds of schools and colleges across the country have chosen Minibus Lite as their school minibus. Our team of professional demonstration drivers are ready to show you around our school minibus pointing out what sets us apart and what you can expect from a Minibus Lite.

While I dispute the part about teachers driving it (this is very, very debatable as they are paid to be teachers) the vehicle does exist and is useful for the likes of Scout Groups. Not so useful for groups of adults either (despite the university comment) because it is too easy to overload.

However 12 seat buses (which are also not cars) are typically 3500kg GVW.

 

[Gooner18]

https://www.minibuslite.co.uk/



While I dispute the part about teachers driving it (this is very, very debatable as they are paid to be teachers) the vehicle does exist and is useful for the likes of Scout Groups. Not so useful for groups of adults either (despite the university comment) because it is too easy to overload.

However 12 seat buses (which are also not cars) are typically 3500kg GVW.

Hmm being a Peugeot it will prob break down before getting to its destination lol.

With regards to the teacher part , while I agree with your point ,it becomes very complicated especially if they are doing it after school hours and in their own time be interesting to see how that will pan out.