Minimum connection times

[WessexEclectic]

Is there an online database/list of minimum connection times for GB stations?

Specifically looking for Lymington Pier (LYP)...

TIA

 

[Gaelan]

https://www.brtimes.com/ has them. At LYP it's 10 minutes.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Ten minutes seems a long time for a station at the end of a single track branch line. Is this essentially to facilitate / allow for train-ferry interchanges?

 

[jfollows]

Also shown in the timetable pages, for example https://timetables.fabdigital.uk/nrt/dec2023/ where a time against the station name in white text in a black box gives the minimum connection time for that station where it differs from the - otherwise - default 5 minutes.
Although this doesn't show 10 minutes for Lymington Pier:

 

[30907]

Also shown in the timetable pages, for example https://timetables.fabdigital.uk/nrt/dec2023/ where a time against the station name in white text in a black box gives the minimum connection time for that station where it differs from the - otherwise - default 5 minutes.
Although this doesn't show 10 minutes for Lymington Pier:
View attachment 151348

Said timetable implies that a 6-minute connection onto the ferry is OK, but NRE won't allow it.

Ten minutes seems a long time for a station at the end of a single track branch line. Is this essentially to facilitate / allow for train-ferry interchanges?

Can't think what other connection you would be making

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Can't think what other connection you would be making

Catching the train, that you've just arrived on, back to Brockenhurst?

 

[30907]

Catching the train, that you've just arrived on, back to Brockenhurst?

Definitely not a valid connection

 

[MrJeeves]

Ten minutes seems a long time for a station at the end of a single track branch line. Is this essentially to facilitate / allow for train-ferry interchanges?

That would make sense -- it's also the same reason that Holyhead has a 35 minute (!!) MCT. Makes track bashing with journey planners more tricky.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Makes track bashing with journey planners more tricky.

Similarly at Blaenau Ffestiniog. The five minutes MCT there possibly means that tonight's 20:24 arrival isn't a valid connection for the 20:27 departure back to Llandudno.

 

[arb]

Some stations have different connection times if you're connecting between different TOCs. The National Rail timetables don't appear to show these different times. I know that they're visible at brtimes.com, but is there an official source for stations with multiple different connection times?

Specifically I'm interested in an official source for Farringdon. brtimes.com tells me that it's normally 3 minutes, but if connecting from Thameslink to Crossrail it's 8 minutes. However none of the printed timetables show the 8 minute connection time.

(The reason for wanting this is that I'm currently arguing with Thameslink over a Delay Repay claim where they say I should have made a 3 minute connection between Thameslink/Crossrail - which if true would mean I'm not entitled to anything).

 

[Mcr Warrior]

(The reason for wanting this is that I'm currently arguing with Thameslink over a Delay Repay claim where they say I should have made a 3 minute connection between Thameslink/Crossrail - which if true would mean I'm not entitled to anything).

I would say that Thameslink are possibly wrong with their interpretation of the MCT at Farringdon, and - Quelle Surprise! - it's an error that just happens to work in their favour.

 

[Gaelan]

Specifically I'm interested in an official source for Farringdon. brtimes.com tells me that it's normally 3 minutes, but if connecting from Thameslink to Crossrail it's 8 minutes. However none of the printed timetables show the 8 minute connection time.

There's the underlying data brtimes uses, which is published by RDG - but this isn't exactly user-friendly to get a copy of. (The easiest way is probably to make an account at data.atoc.org, download the latest "timetable feed", and open the .TSI file with Notepad.) It looks like this:

ZFD,TL,XR,8,
ZFD,XR,TL,8,
ZFD,XR,XR,5,

Another possibility would be finding a place in the timetable where a Thameslink train arrives <8 minutes before an EL train leaves, and pointing out that Thameslink's journey planner does not offer this connection.

 

[Horizon22]

I would say that Thameslink are possibly wrong with their interpretation of the MCT at Farringdon, and - Quelle Surprise! - it's an error that just happens to work in their favour.

I'm pretty sure its 3 (or 5) minutes for same platform Elizabeth line interchanges only. I'm surprised they're trying to argue that as its very easy to prove that's not the case!

I like to do the "elderly lady with a walking stick" sense check on such things.

 

[infobleep]

Minimum connection times aren't always revised.

Take Gatwick Airport where Southern to South Eastern, South Eastern to South Eastern, South Eastern to Southern and Southern to Southern are all 5 minute connection times but everything else is 10 minutes.

First Southeastern don't operate to Gatwick Airport any more and secondly you might be on a Southern train that pulls into platform 3 and need to get to platform 7 for your next train.

If 5 minutes is reasonable for that, and it would be for me, then why isn't it reasonable when joining a Thameslink service, which is also platform 7?

 

[redreni]

Some stations have different connection times if you're connecting between different TOCs. The National Rail timetables don't appear to show these different times. I know that they're visible at brtimes.com, but is there an official source for stations with multiple different connection times?

Specifically I'm interested in an official source for Farringdon. brtimes.com tells me that it's normally 3 minutes, but if connecting from Thameslink to Crossrail it's 8 minutes. However none of the printed timetables show the 8 minute connection time.

(The reason for wanting this is that I'm currently arguing with Thameslink over a Delay Repay claim where they say I should have made a 3 minute connection between Thameslink/Crossrail - which if true would mean I'm not entitled to anything).

I'm a bit annoyed by that as I've refrained, in the past, from submitting delay repay claims to Thameslink on the basis that, although my delay against the journey I would have done without the disruption was in excess of 15 minutes, that theoretical journey would have involved a 5 or 6 minute connection from Thameslink to EL at Farringdon (easily doable) and that is not a valid connection.

If I knew they think the connection time is 3 minutes it would have been very tempting to submit those claims. Although who knows if they still think that in cases where it would favour the passenger?

 

[MrJeeves]

Take Gatwick Airport where Southern to South Eastern, South Eastern to South Eastern, South Eastern to Southern and Southern to Southern are all 5 minute connection times but everything else is 10 minutes.

First Southeastern don't operate to Gatwick Airport any more and secondly you might be on a Southern train that pulls into platform 3 and need to get to platform 7 for your next train.

If 5 minutes is reasonable for that, and it would be for me, then why isn't it reasonable when joining a Thameslink service, which is also platform 7?

They recently did a clean up of the MCTs!

Until recently, Haywards Heath had TOC specific MCTs for CrossCountry who haven't called there since pre-2010s.

 

[infobleep]

They recently did a clean up of the MCTs!

Until recently, Haywards Heath had TOC specific MCTs for CrossCountry who haven't called there since pre-2010s.

That's good. I see that BrTimes doesn't show CrossCountry Trains for Haywards Heath but does show Gatwick Airport as I describe.

Perhaps the project hasn't finished yet.

 

[blueberry11]

Can't believe Colchester is only four minutes. Especially taking the xx:30 Norwich to London service, if you need to change at Colchester for Chelmsford, Shenfield, Stratford, etc, it only gives you as little as four minutes (and at best, seven), so if you are disabled, travelling with family, luggage, etc, it may be best to either take a direct train, or use the next one after that. Like imagine being at the front of the train. I am not sure if delay repay would work if you took the xx:45 train instead of the __:33.

This is coupled with the fact that UK trains often start moving at the time shown, rather than to close/lock doors so realistically, you may only get a couple (2) of minutes which shows this is one of the tightest official connections outside of Crossrail stations which are simply just leaving the train and hopping in the next.

In addition, the fact that the official National Rail website doesn't state the MCT, but BR Times do gets me.

 

[infobleep]

Can't believe Colchester is only four minutes. Especially taking the xx:30 Norwich to London service, if you need to change at Colchester for Chelmsford, Shenfield, Stratford, etc, it only gives you as little as four minutes (and at best, seven), so if you are disabled, travelling with family, luggage, etc, it may be best to either take a direct train, or use the next one after that. Like imagine being at the front of the train. I am not sure if delay repay would work if you took the xx:45 train instead of the __:33.

This is coupled with the fact that UK trains often start moving at the time shown, rather than to close/lock doors so realistically, you may only get a couple (2) of minutes which shows this is one of the tightest official connections outside of Crossrail stations which are simply just leaving the train and hopping in the next.

In addition, the fact that the official National Rail website doesn't state the MCT, but BR Times do gets me.

Technically 3 and half minutes, if at that particular station they operate doors closed 30 seconds in advance

At Surbiton it is 6 minutes. Not sure why it needs 6 minutes and Colchester 4.

Of course none of this takes into account cross platform changes.

I wonder if one day we will reach the stage whereby technology can take into account of course platform changes vs platform 1 to 17.

 

[greatkingrat]

Can't believe Colchester is only four minutes. Especially taking the xx:30 Norwich to London service, if you need to change at Colchester for Chelmsford, Shenfield, Stratford, etc, it only gives you as little as four minutes (and at best, seven), so if you are disabled, travelling with family, luggage, etc, it may be best to either take a direct train, or use the next one after that. Like imagine being at the front of the train. I am not sure if delay repay would work if you took the xx:45 train instead of the __:33.

This is coupled with the fact that UK trains often start moving at the time shown, rather than to close/lock doors so realistically, you may only get a couple (2) of minutes which shows this is one of the tightest official connections outside of Crossrail stations which are simply just leaving the train and hopping in the next.

In addition, the fact that the official National Rail website doesn't state the MCT, but BR Times do gets me.

It's to allow connections to Colchester Town, eg xx06 Liverpool Street - Clacton connects into xx10 Colchester - Colchester Town.

 

[blueberry11]

(I think it address both @infobleep and @greatkingrat .)

Anyway, with regards with changing at Colchester towards London, its not really a cross platform change, you just walk along the platform going backwards meaning the train sits behind the Norwich - London service. Despite being an official connection, even a normal person may struggle to make the connection if they sat in the front of the train. A normal person walks at 3 mph (1.3 m/s) so a 240 m class 745 would take 3 minutes to walk the entire length so bear that in mind along with other factors explained earlier.

Are there some drivers that choose to close/lock the doors at the departure time, rather than 30 seconds before?

Also, if not using the subway, then Ely could justify 4 or even 3 minute interchange (MCT for Ely is 7).

It's to allow connections to Colchester Town, eg xx06 Liverpool Street - Clacton connects into xx10 Colchester - Colchester Town.

I cannot find any London to Clacton service that departs 6 minutes past the hour, all of them were 18 minutes past.

 

[infobleep]

Well if someone wants to go from Woking to New Malden and boards the 08:02, National Rail Enquiries will recommend they go via Wimbledon because the connection time at Surbiton is only 4 minutes. Both trains at Surbiton use platform 1.

So if 4 minutes is required at Colchester to enable a connection, why isn't it required at Surbiton to enable a connection?

 

[blueberry11]

Well if someone wants to go from Woking to New Malden and boards the 08:02, National Rail Enquiries will recommend they go via Wimbledon because the connection time at Surbiton is only 4 minutes. Both trains at Surbiton use platform 1.

So if 4 minutes is required at Colchester to enable a connection, why isn't it required at Surbiton to enable a connection?

I tried to look at NRE (they have updated it recently) but it says 'no fares found' and doesn't even let me view the journey details. Regardless, I think its alright to make the unofficial connection, but claiming delay repay if missed will not work. MCT for Surbiton is 6 min FYI.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Also shown in the timetable pages, for example https://timetables.fabdigital.uk/nrt/dec2023/ where a time against the station name in white text in a black box gives the minimum connection time for that station where it differs from the - otherwise - default 5 minutes.
Although this doesn't show 10 minutes for Lymington Pier:
View attachment 151348

Why would Brockenhurst, a junction station, advise less time than the default?

 

[infobleep]

I tried to look at NRE (they have updated it recently) but it says 'no fares found' and doesn't even let me view the journey details. Regardless, I think its alright to make the unofficial connection, but claiming delay repay if missed will not work. MCT for Surbiton is 6 min FYI.

Yes it is fine to make the unofficial connection and the reason you won't find tickets is that Woking to New Malden isn't valid via Wimbeldon. I wasn't looking at whether it was a valid route, purely what NRE suggests.

The thing is, people won't know there is an unofficial connection as it doesn't show up.

But my point wasn't about this and what one can and can't do but comparing this to Colchester, where it is 4 minutes.

 

[jfollows]

Why would Brockenhurst, a junction station, advise less time than the default?

To allow the people who compile the timetable to come up with times that are less than the default ..... although the full text for Brockenhurst (https://www.brtimes.com/!board?stn=BCU&date=20240201) is

Minimum Connection Time is 3 minutes, with the following exceptions:

which goes on to say 5 minutes for connections to/from Cross-Country.

EG 13:08-13:12 connection out of the 11:35 from Waterloo

 

[30907]

To allow the people who compile the timetable to come up with times that are less than the default ..... although the full text for Brockenhurst (https://www.brtimes.com/!board?stn=BCU&date=20240201) is

which goes on to say 5 minutes for connections to/from Cross-Country.

EG 13:08-13:12 connection out of the 11:35 from Waterloo

There are a considerable number, particularly in the evening peak, and all in the Down direction which is cross-platform.

 

[paul1609]

Well if someone wants to go from Woking to New Malden and boards the 08:02, National Rail Enquiries will recommend they go via Wimbledon because the connection time at Surbiton is only 4 minutes. Both trains at Surbiton use platform 1.

So if 4 minutes is required at Colchester to enable a connection, why isn't it required at Surbiton to enable a connection?

For this year's football season my return trip from Fratton to Appledore is a 4 minute connection across Brighton Station from platform 2 to platform 8. If I don't make it I get a 60 minute delay repay. In traditional Southern style it has involved a lot of whistling at the tardy passengers behind me on occasion but so far touch wood connection made every home game.

 

[infobleep]

To allow the people who compile the timetable to come up with times that are less than the default ..... although the full text for Brockenhurst (https://www.brtimes.com/!board?stn=BCU&date=20240201) is

which goes on to say 5 minutes for connections to/from Cross-Country.

EG 13:08-13:12 connection out of the 11:35 from Waterloo

I assume passengers using Cross Country would have more luggage, although which class of train stopping at Brockenhurst has more space for luggage?