HS2 shortens the time scale though
Is it really the case that we are going to abandon improvements to busy lines between major towns because of HS2 particularly when they will serve different places / markets?
HS2 shortens the time scale though
If it improves the C:B ratio of HS2, then it looks like we will. I think Chris Grayling even (reluctantly) admitted something of that nature recently.Is it really the case that we are going to abandon improvements to busy lines between major towns because of HS2 particularly when they will serve different places / markets?
See the video indicated in post #1533 - Yes it is. Leicester and Loughborough residents will no doubt be incensed that they are treated as collateral damage.Is it really the case that we are going to abandon improvements to busy lines between major towns because of HS2 particularly when they will serve different places / markets?
See the video indicated in post #1533 - Yes it is. Leicester and Loughborough residents will no doubt be incensed that they are treated as collateral damage.
he did say the extra cost of MML bi-modes would be £23M pa and electrification would cost £1B so, over about 40 years, would not the cost of electrification be covered by the savings?
A city of (on some measures 0.5 million people). Some coateral damage.
And the more Talibannish element of HS2 supporters wonder why it does not enjoy universal support. Mind you, I suspect HS2 is in this case being used as yet another excuse to avoid electrification by the DfT
If people want to get angry, focus on either why CP5 commitments were over-promised ----
I could still argue that government has to share some of the blame here - see above - yes primarily NR for either under-delivering or again not taking a Growacet pill.If people want to get angry, focus on why CP5 commitments were under-delivered
I'm a supporter of HS2, but I don't think HS2 is the problem here.
Given the significant rise in costs on the GWML ------ but I don't think it's fair to blame HS2 - .
-- HS2 is just an excuse to justify the tough decision that -----
Blaming HS2 for the MML ----- i
Trouble is, HS2 is always a convenient whipping-boy ------- so it's handy to blame it for things that are not the fault of HS2.
I believe some are up already in the great Oakley area.Monday night, observed 2 road/rail lorry travelling in possession Bedford up to Oakley, 1 a pilling machine , the other carying half a dozen piles, so work has restarted for the overheads.
I thought that the plans for HS2 were for a link through to the line through Chesterfield, Sheffield and onwards to a connection back to HS2. This would require electrification, but the cost of the electrification was not included in the HS2 budget.
Now that MML electrification past Kettering has been cancelled the costs of the Sheffield diversion electrification should fall back into the HS2 budget.
This should mean that when electrification is looked at again for MML, the costs should be less as the project should only include electrification up to around Chesterfield.
Has this been done?
On the first part - NR stitched HS2 up good and proper on this one, Grayling was passed a bit of paper in the commons just after announcing MML cancellation explaining that HS2 cost had just gone up as a result as this one one of the design assumption for the revised route.Unless the plans for HS2's NE arm are changed again, Clay Cross - Sheffield - Clayton will have to be electrified, but I expect HS2 Ltd will try to ensure it isn't counted as part of the cost of HS2.
Also it may happen up to a decade later than it would have done if MML hadn't been chopped.
However it should improve the economics of any future reconsideration of wiring Kettering to Clay Cross.
What is the cost of (pure) electric trains though?
Or is the reference to £23m the difference between bi-mode and pure electric?
I'm a supporter of HS2, but I don't think HS2 is the problem here.
Network Rail failed to deliver GWML electrification properly (to time, budget etc), so other ambitions have been scaled back.
Given the significant rise in costs on the GWML (i.e. Network Rail finding out that something they expected to cost a quid actually cost a fiver once they dealt with the practicalities), the cost/benefit ratio for the MML will no doubt be rather different now to the fantastic sounding ratio being bandied around five years ago (where it was commonly said to be have such a good business case that it'd be significantly cheaper to electrify it than not to).
I'm annoyed about cutting back MML electrification - I'd love to see my local lines in Sheffield wired - but I don't think it's fair to blame HS2 - and it's not totally fair to blame Chris Grayling. There was always going to be a difficult decision for whoever was Transport Sec when a decision had to be taken about how to deal with the overbudget/ delayed/ de-scoped GWML.
HS2 is just an excuse to justify the tough decision that was probably always going to have to be made on the MML - but the decision not to go ahead with the full electrification previously committed to is no different to the Transpennine line, the "electric spine", Windermere and various in-fills.
Blaming HS2 for the MML is on a par with blaming the decision not to wire the Windermere branch due to wanting to try out "new technologies" (i.e. they were always going to cancel Windermere, they've used the justification about using it as a trial for battery powered trains etc but it's not the battery powered trains' fault that proper electrification got cancelled).
If people want to get angry, focus on either why CP5 commitments were over-promised or why CP5 commitments were under-delivered (rather than on the fig-leaf justification given for some of the cut backs).
Trouble is, HS2 is always a convenient whipping-boy. The general public seem to dislike it, a lot of railway enthusiasts seem to dislike it, so it's handy to blame it for things that are not the fault of HS2. Unless anyone is seriously telling me that they believe Teresa May's Government would have maintained a commitment to electrifying the MML in the 2010s were it not for a line that won't be operational until the 2030s?
I do agree with a lot of the sentiments of your post however: Government has to share some of the blame here - yes NR to in that they should have taken a Growacet pill and stood up to the government and said "That is just too much work for one CP"
I could still argue that government has to share some of the blame here - see above - yes primarily NR for either under-delivering or again not taking a Growacet pill.
That being said, avoidance of CapEx seems to be more important than the business case itself, so I won't count on the highest value option getting the nod.
Agree on the economics of electrifying the gap (or parts of) improving at a point in the future, especially South of Trent Jn.
Just found out today that Ford End Rd bridge which is just south of Bedford Midland Rd stn is going to be closed from the 16th Feb until "The end of July" . This is obviously part of MML electrification but has anybody got any idea what will be happen for 6 months.
I feel the only way NR will be able to electrify in the current political climate is on the cheap. So given this climate and the way certain projects are being done (eg Nottingham and Derby resignalling) I would suggest a blockade from Kettering North to Wigston and divert all services via Corby for an extended period just to get the wires as far as Wigston.
For freight though, you would wonder why the freight locomotives of the future cannot adopt the same traction type as those of the passenger workings.
It's the long-tail effect - think of all branch lines that would need to be (expensively) electrified, maybe for just a couple of trains a day? The diesel in a class 88 is really only for "last mile" operation, so you're specifying a locomotive that not only can match an 88 on electrified routes, but a 66 away from the wires, within UK loading gauge. Perhaps there's a garden shed project to semi-permanently couple redundant 60s and 90s... <fetches crayons>
There was no mention of tilting trains to keep the line speeds up.
The major upgrade of the line between Kettering and Corby reaches the next stage in February as testing begins on the newly fitted equipment.
Since 2014, work has been taking place to build a second track on the seven-mile stretch between the two Northamptonshire towns as well as installing the associated junctions, signals and foundations for overhead line equipment that will create the potential for a more frequent and reliable service in the future.
The project is a key part of the biggest upgrade of the Midland Main Line since it opened in 1870 and will support better journeys not just between Northamptonshire and London, but the entire length of the line right through the East Midlands and to Sheffield.
With much of the infrastructure for the extra line now in place, a nine-day period of testing is required meaning there will be no passenger trains between Corby and Kettering on Saturday 17 February until Sunday 25 February, with a bus replacement service in place.
East Midlands Trains services to all other stations are unaffected and will run as normal.
An information event will take place at Corby Station on Tuesday 30 January between 6.30am and 1.30pm for passengers who like to find out more about both the work involved and the travel arrangements.
Spencer Gibbens, Principal Programme Sponsor for Network Rail, said: “A significant amount of work has taken place on the route between Kettering and Corby since this part of the Midland Main Line upgrade began and the project is now approaching the final stages.
“To safely test the new equipment, our engineers need a nine-day period of ‘wheels free’ access to the railway, meaning a short period of bus replacements between Kettering and Corby is unavoidable. From 2020, when the upgrade of the Midland Main Line is complete, passengers will really see the benefits of this investment and I’m grateful for their patience while the work is carried out.”
Jake Kelly, Managing Director, East Midlands Trains, said: “The final testing of this seven-mile stretch of track is an important milestone for the upgrade of the Midland Main Line.
“Although the main benefits of this work will arrive in 2020, it will help to maintain a reliable service for our customers today, including providing a new diversion route if the main line to London is disrupted.
“While this work is being carried out, we will be providing a bus replacement service between the two stations as well as ensuring staff are on hand at both stations to help customers.
“Passengers should check with eastmidlandstrains.co.uk for details about the journey between Kettering and Corby during this time.
So far the Kettering to Corby route has seen:
- Fourteen bridges and viaducts strengthened – including Harpers Brook Viaduct, a 12 arch brick structure constructed in 1879
- 21 kilometres of track laid (12km of new track and 9km renewal of exiting track)
- 4km of drainage equipment installed
- 15km of railway embankment stabilisation completed
- 73km of signal and power cabling laid
- Six new signal gantries erected
- The creation of a wider ‘gauge’ – meaning larger freight containers can be transported on the route