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MML Electrification: progress updates

NotATrainspott

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Wires north of Bedford would only be used by trains coming from St Pancras, so the state of the BedPan wiring is very significant. While Corby services might be able to use them, any electrified InterCity services couldn't due to the lower speed limit and greater risk of dewirement. There's no point putting up wires north of Bedford if the only trains that could use them would be bi-modes, which would then need to switch to self-powered mode on the busiest and most important section of the MML. Getting the BedPan wiring right is absolutely essential to making the most of any other wires which might get put up north of there.
 
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HSTEd

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Plenty go over at either Radlett or we end up being behind them until Harpenden. We pace them sig to sig between 90 and 100 mph then drop right down until there over clear. Invariably they delay us for between 4 and 6 mins. Even if they go over at Radlett you will not touch 125 as it's 100 thru St.Albans . It's only 2 mins of running at 125 before you have to put the brake on away. You don't see 125 again until after Ampthill for a further few mins before braking for Bedford.
So don't be fooled by it being a 125 line all the way.

So running at 100mph is unlikely to increase journey times by as much as it might appear?
In which case the best option would appear to be bi-modes using the current infrastructure pending any upgrades.
Although they might lose time versus the Meridians it would be interesting to see what a modern EMU running at 100mph would do versus normal HST timings. After all the EMU will likely leave the HST for dead from the start.
 

Chester1

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Apart from Hitachi, who else makes bi modes? I suspect Newton Aldycliffe is close to a full order book pre 2020. I still think bi modes is wishful thinking. If new diesel stock can be avoided by upgrading Mark IIIs or cascading stock then they wont be built. Whats the point of bi modes once MML electrification is complete? Diversionary routes are not significant to business cases. MMLs Merdians make them pointless anyway. A Sunday service frequency using Merdians on diversionary routs and Corby EMUs could be implemented until Merdians go.
 

HowardGWR

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MMLs Merdians make them pointless anyway. A Sunday service frequency using Merdians on diversionary routs and Corby EMUs could be implemented until Merdians go.

I kept thinking of an unpleasant French word. The Meridians aren't that bad surely?:D
 
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Conversely, it could also increase capacity if 125s are currently mixing it with 100mph trains.

.

don't go confusing the crayonistas with facts ... same as the steering wheel operatives who do not accept that variable speed limits can actually increase the average speed through reducing the ripple effect and other such disturbances
 
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GRALISTAIR

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Wires north of Bedford would only be used by trains coming from St Pancras, ----

Are you sure about that. I thought there was freight on the line too which could eventually go electric. My bad if I am wrong. I did not realize Bedford - Nottingham Derby and Sheffield was only used by trains from St Pancras. Sorry. I am way out of date living in the USA. :oops:
 

asylumxl

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Are you sure about that. I thought there was freight on the line too which could eventually go electric. My bad if I am wrong. I did not realize Bedford - Nottingham Derby and Sheffield was only used by trains from St Pancras. Sorry. I am way out of date living in the USA. :oops:
Let's be honest, there are benefits to upgrading the BedPan section and electrifying further north. To reep the full benefits of one requires the other to be done too.
 

edwin_m

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Bombardier, Stadler also build bi-mode's.

Bombardier advertised on in the Aventra range but hasn't built one, and the Stadler ones are 100mph only. Then again there is no current design of 125mph straight diesel to British loading gauge.
 

HSTEd

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Bombardier advertised on in the Aventra range but hasn't built one, and the Stadler ones are 100mph only. Then again there is no current design of 125mph straight diesel to British loading gauge.

I'm now hoping that the 195s are the last pure diesel units ever purchased on British railways.
 

Chester1

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I'm now hoping that the 195s are the last pure diesel units ever purchased on British railways.

I fully agree. I think don't bi modes to be common either, the Hitachi bi mode will probably have further orders, Stadler too. They really aren't neccessary for MML which should be electrified to Sheffield by 2023, has Turbostars for regional diesel routes and has Meridians that won't be easy to cascade.
 

hwl

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Bombardier advertised on in the Aventra range but hasn't built one, and the Stadler ones are 100mph only. Then again there is no current design of 125mph straight diesel to British loading gauge.

Plenty of Bombardier Bi-mode on the continent for them to have learnt from.
 

deltic08

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6 minutes doesn't sound like a lot, but it could potentially reduce capacity and certainly wouldn't allow for increased service frequency. The EMT services are pretty well loaded throughout the day, so more services are certainly needed.

Or longer trains.
 

Magicake

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I have read with great interest the discussion on the previous few pages as to whether it is worth upgrading the line south of Bedford and there have been some excellent points made. However do these have any basis in Network Rail's plans? My understanding is that ECI for the upgrade has already started and that work towards agreeing a contract for the works is ongoing.
 

Verulamius

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http://www.networkrail.co.uk/Enhancements-Delivery-Plan.pdf

There has been a significant update in the December 2016 version of the CP5 enhancement plan regarding MML electrification and capacity upgrades (pages 36 to 43).

Kettering to Sheffield electrification is still specified as CP6 completion (although no further dates provided). The upgrade to the OLE south of Bedford is also CP6.

Enabling 240m long trains to call at Bedford,Wellingborough, Kettering, Corby and Market Harborough also specified.
 

InTheEastMids

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Is the work to straighten the alignment at Market Harborough still going ahead?

There was some to and fro about the budget at the end of last year - evidently the back of every sofa is being searched for loose change against the £46M price tag. I haven't seen anything official to support this tweet, but it seems that work will start this summer

https://twitter.com/hfmnews/status/817027057574182914

Assuming the project scope hasn't changed too much, then this presentation is useful, makes clear it's not just a nip & tuck around the platforms, but basically the construction of 2.5 km of new railway

http://politics.leics.gov.uk/documents/s117741/Network Rail presentation.pdf
 

tsangpogorge

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There was some to and fro about the budget at the end of last year - evidently the back of every sofa is being searched for loose change against the £46M price tag. I haven't seen anything official to support this tweet, but it seems that work will start this summer

https://twitter.com/hfmnews/status/817027057574182914

Assuming the project scope hasn't changed too much, then this presentation is useful, makes clear it's not just a nip & tuck around the platforms, but basically the construction of 2.5 km of new railway

http://politics.leics.gov.uk/documents/s117741/Network Rail presentation.pdf

That's a very detailed report, the current speed restrictions took me by surprise because the curve doesn't appear very tight viewed from above on a map also didn't know the bend north of the station was part of the plans too. So there's a £9.3 million shortfall I'm sure some sort of stealth tax or a small rise in ticket prices can cover that amount. Have similar track realignments for increased line speed been carried out on the other main lines?
 

Senex

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There was some to and fro about the budget at the end of last year - evidently the back of every sofa is being searched for loose change against the £46M price tag. I haven't seen anything official to support this tweet, but it seems that work will start this summer

https://twitter.com/hfmnews/status/817027057574182914

Assuming the project scope hasn't changed too much, then this presentation is useful, makes clear it's not just a nip & tuck around the platforms, but basically the construction of 2.5 km of new railway

http://politics.leics.gov.uk/documents/s117741/Network Rail presentation.pdf
When the Leicester MAS scheme was being planned the Market Harborough re-alignment was included, but was cut out at a very late stage as part of the de-scoping, money-saving measures. Those original plans proposed the facing and trailing crossovers not on the curve south of the station but on a section of new straight track north of the station. It looks from this presentation as if the plans are to keep the S&C on the curve, which presumably limits the amount of cant that can be applied and so limits the permitted speed. Also, certainly in the early years, this S&C on the curve posed some maintenance and reliability problems. These may well now have been solved, but even so, is it desirable to keep the S&C on what is quite a sharp curve if there is any possibility of moving it to an easier location? Or is it that any change of location would be too difficult if not combined with re-signalling?
 

Flying Phil

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Thanks for that update and EMT presentation - So hopefully we will see some work "On the Ground" this year at MH station. ....and yes, it is my local station!
 

edwin_m

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When the Leicester MAS scheme was being planned the Market Harborough re-alignment was included, but was cut out at a very late stage as part of the de-scoping, money-saving measures. Those original plans proposed the facing and trailing crossovers not on the curve south of the station but on a section of new straight track north of the station. It looks from this presentation as if the plans are to keep the S&C on the curve, which presumably limits the amount of cant that can be applied and so limits the permitted speed. Also, certainly in the early years, this S&C on the curve posed some maintenance and reliability problems. These may well now have been solved, but even so, is it desirable to keep the S&C on what is quite a sharp curve if there is any possibility of moving it to an easier location? Or is it that any change of location would be too difficult if not combined with re-signalling?

According to Modern Railways at that time, the S&C was put on the curve for the very reason that it wouldn't be affected if the remodelling went ahead later, and I think it was also mentioned that it would be useful for single line working during the work. Unless it is now planned to do this in a total blockade the second of those reasons at least is still valid. However the presentation does mention points in the northern part of the work, but there is no mention of loops so perhaps these are more crossovers.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
That's a very detailed report, the current speed restrictions took me by surprise because the curve doesn't appear very tight viewed from above on a map also didn't know the bend north of the station was part of the plans too. So there's a £9.3 million shortfall I'm sure some sort of stealth tax or a small rise in ticket prices can cover that amount. Have similar track realignments for increased line speed been carried out on the other main lines?

The long curve south of the station doesn't change though according to the presentation it gets a higher speed. As you say this curve isn't too tight and as it is surrounded by bits of the town it would be a horrendous job to straighten it out. As pointed out above it appears the crossovers on the curve are staying, although if this is wrong in the presentation and they are being removed then it would explain how they manage to increase the speed there.

The realignments take out the reverse curves through the platforms, which I think are on a tighter radius than the curves further south. Also the platforms probably limit the amount of cant and/or transition lengths too, further restricting the speed. Further north the MML is restored to its original alignment, removing the kink introduced when it was re-routed to pass over the Melton Mowbray line.

Many similar projects have been done elsewhere, particularly on the ECML in BR days where there was an active policy of realigning the worst curves to reduce journey times a few seconds at a time. The largest of those was probably the re-building of Peterborough to get rid of the sharp curve which restricted non-stopping trains, and a smaller station-related one was at Durham. The Rugby re-modelling was a more recent example on the WCML.
 
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Senex

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The long curve south of the station doesn't change though according to the presentation it gets a higher speed. As you say this curve isn't too tight and as it is surrounded by bits of the town it would be a horrendous job to straighten it out. As pointed out above it appears the crossovers on the curve are staying, although if this is wrong in the presentation and they are being removed then it would explain how they manage to increase the speed there.

The realignments take out the reverse curves through the platforms, which I think are on a tighter radius than the curves further south. Also the platforms probably limit the amount of cant and/or transition lengths too, further restricting the speed. Further north the MML is restored to its original alignment, removing the kink introduced when it was re-routed to pass over the Melton Mowbray line.

The details of curvature that I have date from the time of the APT tests on the line, but I don't think there have been any re-alignments in this area since and the values tie in with what was still marked out on the track in the 1990s.

The long right-hand curve leading to the station starts at 43 chains radius with 4½" cant, eases to 59 chains radius with 3½" cant, and then sharpens into the station to 29 chains radius with 5" cant. (The precise figures for this section of the curve that I later read off the track were 28¼ chains radius with 5" cant, T = 240'.) This leads straight into a left-hand curve starting at 35 chains radius with 4½" cant (via the appropriate transitions, of course) and then easing to 98 chains radius with 1½" cant and then to 94 chains radius with 2¼" cant. The curve on the overbridge where the Midland line post-1884 crosses the former LNW line is of 39 chains radius with 6" cant, with straight track on either side of the curve. If I remember correctly, the permissible speed on the curve south of the station was actually a little reduced by either Railtrack or Network Rail from the figure that applied in BR days.
 

deltic08

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Many similar projects have been done elsewhere, particularly on the ECML in BR days where there was an active policy of realigning the worst curves to reduce journey times a few seconds at a time. The largest of those was probably the re-building of Peterborough to get rid of the sharp curve which restricted non-stopping trains, and a smaller station-related one was at Durham. The Rugby re-modelling was a more recent example on the WCML.

Wasn't the river diverted so that the curve on the ECML at Offord could be eased in the mid 1970s?
 

Flying Phil

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There seems to be bridge work going on on at least two bridges in the Syston/Barrow stretch of the MML - so electrification progress is being maintained.
 

snowball

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There seems to be bridge work going on on at least two bridges in the Syston/Barrow stretch of the MML - so electrification progress is being maintained.

Probably the ones mentioned in the press releases in #367 and #389 (and the one that partially collapsed?).
 

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