MML Electrification: progress updates

[cle]

More likely St Pancras - Ebbsfleet shuttles, and even then I think it'd need for TfL/SE to offer a plus HS1 option on z1-3 (or more) travelcards to see a big shift in usage.

I think Gravesend would be more useful for a shuttle.

Might they ever open up HS1 to Z1-3 travelcards?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Just done a return trip from London to Leicester today and I was wondering when will the ground work start? Quiet a few bridges have been rebuilt but I could not see pilling or concrete foundations anywhere north of Bedford or did I?, there is a junction about 5-10 miles north of Bedford where I swore I saw about 10 piles on the down side in this area, can anybody confirm this? Anyway if the target date for Corby is 2017 they better start very soon otherwise it will be another electrification target date missed.

The tell-tale signs usually are work sites where they can park the construction kit and stockpile the piles and masts etc.
The power supply points are also usually busy early on in the project.
They are supposed to be at Sundon (MP35-ish) and Braybrooke (south of Market Harborough at MP80-ish, actually north of the junction to Corby).
Work on the ground was supposed to start in "April".

 

[londonmidland]

I see work is taking place

 

[7griffinjack]

I very much doubt the East Coast will take Nottingham services. They've floated this stupid idea around for years and its just like a myth. It makes no sense and causes more headaches than "solutions" (a solution to something that doesn't need solving). The Southern ECML is full and with extra Great Northern services in the future is only going to get worse. The Grantham to Nottingham would need electrification too. With the four tracking of the MML (i.e. more room than the ECML) and a large amount of people from Bedfordshire, Northants (population planned to grow rapidly) and Leicestershire going Nottingham, the Nottingham to St Pancras trains will remain.

Do bear in mind that once HS2 is operational, Leeds/Newcastle/Edinburgh services will use that - creating lots of capacity on the ECML.

 

[richieb1971]

I see work is taking place

I will have a nose about since I am local to that area.

 

[duffield]

On the MML Wednesday afternoon, saw quite a lot of evidence of piling activity just north of Bedford. Also a section of the new track for the Corby re-doubling (unconnected at both ends) near Kettering North Junction, lots more rails in place ready to be laid, plenty of orangeman activity.

 

[THC]

plenty of orangeman activity.

Lots of marching in places where they're not wanted, noising up the neighbours and singing about 325 year-old wars like they happened yesterday...?

THC

 

[RichmondCommu]

Lots of marching in places where they're not wanted, noising up the neighbours and singing about 325 year-old wars like they happened yesterday...?

THC

I'm not really sure that sectarianism has a place on this thread. I dare say you completely understood what the forum member had reported without having to make reference to sectarianism and isolated (thankfully) incidents of intolerance in Northern Ireland.

 

[THC]

I'm not really sure that sectarianism has a place on this thread. I dare say you completely understood what the forum member had reported without having to make reference to sectarianism and isolated (thankfully) incidents of intolerance in Northern Ireland.

Oh come on, there is nothing "sectarian" about my comment. It was clearly light-hearted or had the smiley passed you by? I have never heard the word "Orangeman" used in the context that the previous poster used it and the reference to the OO was the first thing that came to mind.

THC

 

[Iskra]

Oh come on, there is nothing "sectarian" about my comment. It was clearly light-hearted or had the smiley passed you by? I have never heard the word "Orangeman" used in the context that the previous poster used it and the reference to the OO was the first thing that came to mind.

THC

Quite.

Some people will take offence at anything.

 

[richieb1971]

People in Pavenham are up in arms about through the night pile driving. Apparently a lot of booming sounds coming out of the night.

I looked around last Sunday for evidence of stock piling but found none. There was a bus service running between Bedford and Kettering. I noticed a engineers train under the Oakley bridge. Nobody was there and the class 66 loco was switched off on the down slow.

Heading a bit south (Bedford north junction) I noticed lots of orange workmen. They could be doing MML Electrification but the likelyhood is that they are fixing the area for the Western bypass bridge which needs to be built before 2016.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Oh come on, there is nothing "sectarian" about my comment. It was clearly light-hearted or had the smiley passed you by? I have never heard the word "Orangeman" used in the context that the previous poster used it and the reference to the OO was the first thing that came to mind.

THC

I'm coming. Contrary to what you've suggested its perfectly clear that much of what you typed had references to sectarianism. How often have you seen men of the Orange Order working on rail based infrastructure projects here in the South East? However on the other hand its common place to see men wearing orange uniforms repairing and renewing our rail network. On what basis did you think the forum member intended to state that he or she had seen members of the Orange Order working on the MML electrification project.

Finally, for what its worth those people who have suffered the effects of sectarianism rarely do much of this when describing their experiences.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

People in Pavenham are up in arms about through the night pile driving. Apparently a lot of booming sounds coming out of the night.

I looked around last Sunday for evidence of stock piling but found none. There was a bus service running between Bedford and Kettering. I noticed a engineers train under the Oakley bridge. Nobody was there and the class 66 loco was switched off on the down slow.

Heading a bit south (Bedford north junction) I noticed lots of orange workmen. They could be doing MML Electrification but the likelyhood is that they are fixing the area for the Western bypass bridge which needs to be built before 2016.

Many thanks for the information. It was stated a while a go that pile driving would start in May so at least they have stuck to their word. Hopefully it won't be too long until we start seeing masts appearing. Exciting times if you are a regular user of the MML!

 

[THC]

I'm coming. Contrary to what you've suggested its perfectly clear that much of what you typed had references to sectarianism. How often have you seen men of the Orange Order working on rail based infrastructure projects here in the South East? However on the other hand its common place to see men wearing orange uniforms repairing and renewing our rail network. On what basis did you think the forum member intended to state that he or she had seen members of the Orange Order working on the MML electrification project.

Finally, for what its worth those people who have suffered the effects of sectarianism rarely do much of this when describing their experiences.

Spare me the lecture. I think after a lifetime of visiting family and friends in NI and studying and working there I'm well able to deduce how "those people who have suffered the effects of sectarianism" deal with it. For the most part it is through humour, gallows or otherwise, and not through the sort of po-faced sanctimony exemplified by your post. You're tying yourself in knots trying to make a point and looking daft in the process. As they say in Belfast, catch yerself on. :roll:

THC

 

[59CosG95]

*attempts to break up virtual squabbling* Be all of this as it may, is there any more progress on the electrification?

 

[RichmondCommu]

You're tying yourself in knots trying to make a point and looking daft in the process. As they say in Belfast, catch yerself on. :roll:

THC

Your opinion, not mine, there is no need for name calling which really does not nothing to reinforce your argument. There was no need to mention sectarianism in a thread that has been created to discuss the MML electrification and your feeble excuse for doing so is hardly credible.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

*attempts to break up virtual squabbling* Be all of this as it may, is there any more progress on the electrification?

Yes, piling activity has started just north of Beford although only recently.

 

[richieb1971]

So piling is relative to the electrification then?

Would piling be required to build a huge concrete road bridge over the line? Because thats where the piling is being done, where the bridge for the Western bypass is going to be.

the locals got this in the news.. apparently they don't like it being done overnight. But NR state they cannot do it whilst trains are running.

 

[civ-eng-jim]

So piling is relative to the electrification then?

Would piling be required to build a huge concrete road bridge over the line? Because thats where the piling is being done, where the bridge for the Western bypass is going to be..

I expect two different methods of piling will be used for OLE pole foundations and bridge foundations.

Piled OLE foundations tend to be steel circular hollow sections which are rammed into the ground by vibratory or percussive methods. Their slender shape cut into the earth without excavating material.

Piling for the bridge will be by continuous flight auger which is effectively a giant drill bit. A cylinder of earth is excavated, a steel reinforced cage lowered in and then backfilled with concrete to form the pile.

While both are noisy operations, the noise from vibratory or percussive piling travels way further and would more than likely keep people awake.

 

[Class 66's]

I think you will find the Dis-placed 91's and mk4 sets will be used on East Midlands Franchise after Class 800/801's arrive
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
i think that thameslink services will become confined to slow lines because after Electrification of the midland mainline the toc operating the midland mainline franchise will increase intercity train frequencies so there probably wont be much chance to run fast thameslink services over fast lines!

For me, the Thameslink units on the slow line won't be a bad thing. Standing at the north end of the Sharnbrook tunnel. I usually wait about an hour between freight trains there and it will be nice to at least see more traffic there.

Might also get rid of trespassers that go on the line because it is quiet. Seen them occasionally.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

On the MML Wednesday afternoon, saw quite a lot of evidence of piling activity just north of Bedford. Also a section of the new track for the Corby re-doubling (unconnected at both ends) near Kettering North Junction, lots more rails in place ready to be laid, plenty of orangeman activity.

Thanks for the info. There was work the Wednesday before on the line out by Irchester.

 

[richieb1971]

Do NR generally leave gaps when putting up OLE?

The bridge just north of Bedford Midland will not be taken down until after the bypass bridge is built. So if they are piling in gantries any time soon there will be a gap for a while.

Near Irchester the A43 goes past and that is an old arched bridge and that has no potential nearby bypass for that bridge and its really busy. Although when I looked at it only the slow line was affected. I believe the arches on the fast might be high enough for OLE and W10 (maybe). So they might just lower the track on the slow lines.

I was wondering how the OLE will work with many parts of north Bedford. Will they do one long gantry over all lines, 2 smaller gantries over the fast and slows? At some points the lines diverge 20+ feet apart and take different gradients.

The metal bridge in the far background only has walls up to your groin level. It will be interesting to see what action they take with that particular bridge.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I was wondering how the OLE will work with many parts of north Bedford.
Will they do one long gantry over all lines, 2 smaller gantries over the fast and slows?
At some points the lines diverge 20+ feet apart and take different gradients.

It varies, but on the GW they are putting up a lot of paired TTCs (twin track cantilevers) on the 4-track sections, rather than full 4-track portals which are common on the WCML.
Metalwork isn't likely to go up for quite some time, maybe into next year.
Usually the track-lowering/bridgeworks and any track remodelling/resignalling come first.
Round-arch bridges are usually replaced, but the NW project left at least one of George Stephenson's sandstone bridges on the NW project at Rainhill (on the skew), but that was on a 90mph line rather than 125mph.
The higher speed on the MML means more problems under bridges, to maintain the constant wire height at the required tension.

 

[HSTEd]

Surely where the lines are 20 feet apart they would just use conventional single track cantilevers?

 

[richieb1971]

I doubt this area will get 125mph line speed.


Bedford Midland is on quite a curve, Oakley has quite a bend as well. Too many turns and gradient shifts. South of Wellingborough has some 90 degree S bends there is no way your going 125mph through there.

 

[swt_passenger]

Surely where the lines are 20 feet apart they would just use conventional single track cantilevers?

Depends if the 20 ft gap is between the two separate pairs as in your earlier photo, or between two lines of a pair?

 

[Senex]

I doubt this area will get 125mph line speed.


Bedford Midland is on quite a curve, Oakley has quite a bend as well. Too many turns and gradient shifts. South of Wellingborough has some 90 degree S bends there is no way your going 125mph through there.

The up fast at Bedford is 125 right through (from MP 56 to the north end of Ampthill Tunnel). The down line drops to 110 because someone had the foresight to build a new platform up against the down fast rather than on a loop off it a few years ago. 125 resumes at 50m13ch, then it's 115 at 56m02ch, 110 at 56m16½ch, 125 at 59½mls, 110 at 63m17ch, 85 at 64m27ch, and 80 at 64m75ch and through Wellingborough.

 

[mr_jrt]

The up fast at Bedford is 125 right through (from MP 56 to the north end of Ampthill Tunnel). The down line drops to 110 because someone had the foresight to build a new platform up against the down fast rather than on a loop off it a few years ago. 125 resumes at 50m13ch, then it's 115 at 56m02ch, 110 at 56m16½ch, 125 at 59½mls, 110 at 63m17ch, 85 at 64m27ch, and 80 at 64m75ch and through Wellingborough.

Interesting, I wasn't aware of the layout at Bedford before your post.

Given the plans to knock platform 1a through for 12 car operation, would there be any utility in moving platform 4 back to fit in an extra line so both directions could have loops, or alternatively, adding a couple of new lines west of platform 4, creating a platform 5 on the other face and adding a new loop alongside, leaving platform 3 to the slow lines? Looks like there's plenty of room to do so.

Ultimately then you could then end up with the platform 0/1 island serving EWR, the 2/3 island serving Thameslink, and the 4/5 island serving the fast lines.

 

[Bald Rick]

The down line drops to 110 because someone had the foresight to build a new platform up against the down fast rather than on a loop off it a few years ago.

Presumably because it avoided significant extra cost, land purchase, a rather complicated consents process and delayed implementation, at a time there was no prospect of 125mph running on the route. In any event it only costs about 5 seconds.

 

[richieb1971]

These Bedford Midland plans, are they official? I've heard of running p1 right through the current lobby and moving the station back to its original position alongside the Queens park Bridge.

 

[edwin_m]

The fast lines through Bedford are on a long curve. A loop track would have had to come off before and rejoin after the curve, otherwise the turnouts would have reduced the speed to less than the platform does now. I think it would also have required land acquisition to the west of the existing railway boundary, as well as changes to signalling. So it's hardly surprising that none of this was done for the small time saving quoted by Rick.

 

[76020]

I did a return trip from London to Leicester today and the current paused status is about 60 piles have been installed, approx 30 on each side of the track, these cover all four running lines starting a few miles north of Bedford, will they do anymore in the near future? who knows.
On a more positive note the four tracking north of Kettering is way under way with, I guess, about 1-2 miles installed.

 

[RichmondCommu]

In all honesty I didn't even think there was 60 of them but I'll take your word for it The four tracking is indeed good news and one is hopeful that the route at Market Harborough will be straightened out in the next five years but whether anything will get done in the Leicester area and Derby is a different matter. Heaven knows when the electrification project will be re-started