MML Electrification: progress updates

[richieb1971]

Seen photographic evidence showing Oakley had some work done over the weekend.


A few gantries went up.

 

[snowball]

There was a press release about Bromham Road bridge last week. Apparently it needs its own T&W Order!

... but does not need an environmental impact assessment:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/london-to-corby-transport-and-works-act-order

An environmental impact assessment is not required for the reconstruction of Bromham Road Bridge.

 

[londonmidland]

Not really to do with the electrification but I don’t think I’ve ever seen this many freight services in one area at once. There’s also a freight waiting at South Wigston awaiting clearance.

 

[martinr1]

Had a look at Wellingborough on Wednesday which seemed largely untouched by electrification!

 

[59CosG95]

Had a look at Wellingborough on Wednesday which seemed largely untouched by electrification!

Indeed, Wellingboro's been left out for the moment. Presumably NR et al want to get the 4-track between there and Sharnbrook complete again.
Kangaroo Spinney has no sign of piles etc anywhere, neither does Irchester at this point in time.
Wymington (on the fasts) south towards Bedford, plus a couple of piles nr Isham, are the only signs of work so far on the MML.

 

[Flying Phil]

Nice video update Martinr 1. Coincidently, I had gone to Market Harborough to see the work North of the Station on Wednesday....and saw the Belmond Pullman going through!

 

[Ploughman]

Would the Belmond have been heading for Chesterfield and the RHS show at Chatsworth?
Recall seeing it doing that last year.
A Fleet of high end R/Rover and other rather expensive vehicles as taxis to transfer passengers.

 

[grumpyoldman01]

According to today's 'Derby Telegraph', electrification is extending as far north as Market Harborough; see:

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/business/new-trains-more-seats-faster-1653824

 

[GRALISTAIR]

According to today's 'Derby Telegraph', electrification is extending as far north as Market Harborough; see:

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/business/new-trains-more-seats-faster-1653824

I also liked this bit " As bi-mode trains are so much cheaper to run under electric wires, we think there is a good economic case for a program of ‘incremental electrification’ of the remaining line, providing that the capital costs can be properly controlled "

 

[snowball]

According to today's 'Derby Telegraph', electrification is extending as far north as Market Harborough; see:

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/business/new-trains-more-seats-faster-1653824

More importantly, it gives a source for this assertion. It says it's in the Invitation to Tender. (I haven't checked yet that it actually is in there.)

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Grayling saving face possibly?

 

[snowball]

I've now had a quick look at the docs and can't see it.

 

[Kettledrum]

According to today's 'Derby Telegraph', electrification is extending as far north as Market Harborough; see:

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/business/new-trains-more-seats-faster-1653824

I can't see it in the ITT. The Derby Telegraph has lifted it straight from an East Midlands Councils press release which includes a quote from the chair Sir Peter Soulsby:

http://www.emcouncils.gov.uk/News/lets-make-the-most-of-the-new-east-midlands-rail-franchise

 

[38Cto15E]

This "Biggest improvement to the MML in 140 years" doesn't go down very well with me. I have a limited knowledge of the subject but as I understand it Electric trains cannot run at 125mph south of Bedford and there are no fixed plans to upgrade the OLE for the time being.
Is the OLE going as far as Market Harborough? If so no one appears to have told Network Rail. If Mr Carne wants to earn his gong he should try and sort out Chris Grayling regarding the MML.

 

[Senex]

At Leicester, the Up Main on platform 3 has had its TSR took away so 40MPH working through platform 3. Impressive to hear a HST scream towards London rather than power off for 15MPH.

All other TSR are in place still as far as I’m aware.

Does anyone know what is happening here on the down line? The new PON shews that in the up direction things are exactly as reported, with 40 from platform 3 and 25 along and from platform 4, the up main line. But the down direction seems very odd, with 30 to, from, and over platform 1 but still the old 15 into platform 2, the down main line, although the speed out of platform 2 southbound is 25. Can this really be the final state, with no improvement on the down main line, or is there work still incomplete?

 

[InTheEastMids]

Indeed, Wellingboro's been left out for the moment. Presumably NR et al want to get the 4-track between there and Sharnbrook complete again.
Kangaroo Spinney has no sign of piles etc anywhere, neither does Irchester at this point in time.
Wymington (on the fasts) south towards Bedford, plus a couple of piles nr Isham, are the only signs of work so far on the MML.

My theory on the lack of Welly action could also be that they are deferring work here until there's improved access to the East side of Wellingborough station.

There's a plan of the station available here:
http://pawebsrv.wellingborough.gov....oposed_Station_Site_Plan_-_amended-233579.pdf

However, it doesn't include a 4th platform or 4th line, and my guess is because that's NR Permitted Development and so was not part of the planning application.

 

[59CosG95]

MML Wiring Progressometer 4.0 (11th June 2018)
Mileages are from St. Pancras.

Bedford (49m 65ch) - Wellingborough (65m 09ch)

• Work underway (since 19/2) on Ford End Road Bridge (https://goo.gl/maps/gBj4QfKex5K2); should finish Aug '18.
• About 4 piles now in on the Down side south of Bromham Rd Bridge, Bedford. These piles stretch northwards from Bromham Rd as far as the eye can see, towards the Great Ouse Bridge.
• At Bromham, between the A6 (Great Ouse Way) & Lower Farm Rd (https://goo.gl/maps/rSPFrDAZQ362), 13 Twin Track Cantilevers/TTCs (with booms) are up over the Slow Lines, and about 6/7 over the Fast Lines. This includes the Box Girder bridge over the river Great Ouse.
• A single TTC mast has now gone up north of Lower Farm Rd, adjacent to the Down Fast.
• At Oakley, on the site of the old station (just south of Highfield Rd Bridge), two piles are in adjacent to the Down Fast and Up Slow; one of the Down Fast piles now has a boomed TTC. Over the Slows, a boomed TTC has gone up near the bridge. Plenty of TTC uprights (no booms) are up to the south of Oakley station; their extent is not yet known. Another upright has gone up to the north of Highfield Rd bridge, adjacent to the Down Fast.
• 2 piles are in just south of Oakley Viaduct (https://goo.gl/maps/r5oXUSSPSAo); one next to the DF, another next to the US. These seem to have been in for a while.
• Lots of TTCs also up over both pairs of lines around Milton Ernest (between Radwell Rd & East End; https://goo.gl/maps/V5afGGQEZiE2).
• Between Radwell Rd & New Rd, a TTC mast has been placed between the Up Fast & Down Slow, as the embankment adjacent to the Up Slow had to be replaced with a gabion retaining wall.
• About 6 TTCs are up immediately to the north of Radwell Viaduct, over the Slow lines (https://goo.gl/maps/r5oXUSSPSAo); 3 more TTCs are up accompanying them over the Fast lines (positioned between the pairs of lines). Another 2 are now up over the Slows south of the viaduct. Masts for a possible "2 Capital Pi's" portal boom (i.e. |T|) are up at the southern end of the viaduct.
• Roughly 3 or 4 piles (now with boomless TTC masts) are in next to the Down Fast, and another 4 (3 of which have boomed TTC masts) next to the Up Slow just north of Moor End Lane, Radwell (https://goo.gl/maps/cmgWsgyYAo62). South of Moor End Lane (but north of the next bridge to the south), about 5 TTC masts are up (2 of which have booms) adjacent to the Up Slow, with a similar number in adjacent to the Down Fast. South of that bridge, another 2 piles have masts (possibly w/ booms).
• 2 parallel piles are in place (no masts) adjacent to the Fast lines at Radwell; possibly for a portal frame?
• Between Wymington (https://goo.gl/maps/apZ6wwj9StR2) and Wellingboro', intensive 4-tracking is underway, with the SLow Lines still closed. Near the Google Maps link posted for Wymington, the car park used for the 4-tracking works is due to house a National Grid substation for the electrification. Link to application to Beds Council: http://www.publicaccess.bedford.gov...ils.do?activeTab=summary&keyVal=ONBIS8CUMMJ00
• Nothing up regarding piles/masts in the Wymington area on the Slows at this stage; piles are however going in around the Fasts.
• Mast-wise, not much up around Kangaroo Spinney (https://goo.gl/maps/K8C8gkgvNaD2), Irchester (https://goo.gl/maps/SxEfjQV71Ly), Souldrop (https://goo.gl/maps/DYdb2rWw8BL2) or Sharnbrook Jct (https://goo.gl/maps/umEb3T9ftD62) at this point, but about 4 or so masts are now up beside the Up Slow, just north of Park Ln, Sharnbrook (https://goo.gl/maps/df2As431FDr).
• Station Rd Bridge, Irchester (see above link) is closed from 9/4 to 22/11 to allow reconstruction for OLE; the replacement deck over the Relief Lines is now complete.

Wellingborough (65m 09ch) - Kettering (72m 01ch)

• Extensive 4-tracking laid (except at points where existing infrastructure has to be moved).
• 1 or 2 piles have gone in around Isham; not much progress elsewhere.

Kettering (72m 01ch) - Glendon Jct (74m 00ch) - Corby (79m 40ch)

• Piling going on to the north of Kettering station. A few signal gantries from the BR days have been (or are due to be) removed. Unclear of progress with piling/masts towards Corby, or on the Main line north of Glendon Junction; I assume some wires will go this way to be used as overruns.
• 2nd track now in operation, and linespeed raised to 90mph where it was previously 60mph.

North of Glendon Jct (74m 00ch)

• Braybrooke Substation approved. To be located here: (https://goo.gl/maps/fuy1uZeDjdQ2).
• The extent of wiring towards Market Harboro' has not yet been decided; it might be Braybrooke, it might not be as far as Braybrooke, it may even go to Market Harboro' itself (which is unlikely).
  It may run in a trench like the situation planned for Thingley-Chippenham on the GWEP, from Braybrooke to Glendon.

Any updates would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Mollman]

This "Biggest improvement to the MML in 140 years" doesn't go down very well with me. I have a limited knowledge of the subject but as I understand it Electric trains cannot run at 125mph south of Bedford and there are no fixed plans to upgrade the OLE for the time being.
Is the OLE going as far as Market Harborough? If so no one appears to have told Network Rail. If Mr Carne wants to earn his gong he should try and sort out Chris Grayling regarding the MML.

I'd have also thought that the introduction of HSTs, opening of the power boxes and Bed-Pan electrification were big improvements too!

 

[Senex]

I'd have also thought that the introduction of HSTs, opening of the power boxes and Bed-Pan electrification were big improvements too!

I'd have reckoned that any of those three was a much greater step-change in quality than anything that's happening now.

 

[richieb1971]

The last decent upgrade to the MML has already been done by putting 125mph running trains on it in terms of speed.

Bedford should be on a loop as it sticks out really badly compared to the other places. Bedford is the reason a lot of the twists and turns exist. If I were NR and happy to oblige I'd put Kettering, Wellingborough and Bedford on a loop and straight line a new track from Market Harborough and Ampthill tunnel since not much resides between the two places. If you could do 125mph from Market Harborough to Ampthill tunnel in a straight line it would take 17 minutes. It currently takes 40 minutes. The MML really suffers because the 100 miles north of London are riddled with bends that aren't suitable for 100mph+ running speeds. And we really want our railways modernised so that greater speeds can be achieved.

HS2 can't come soon enough for the northerners.

 

[muddythefish]

.

If you could do 125mph from Market Harborough to Ampthill tunnel in a straight line it would take 17 minutes. .

Are you sure? Distance from Harborough to Ampthill is about 50 miles

 

[38Cto15E]

Distance is less than 50 miles as the crow flies, unfortunately a direct line will never happen.

 

[richieb1971]

I did a straight line calculation using straight line calculator online. It stated 36 miles. Using another calculator that determines timings from speed and distance it stated 125mph (non standing start) would take 17 mins. Or 16 minutes and 50 seconds.

 

[The Ham]

I did a straight line calculation using straight line calculator online. It stated 36 miles. Using another calculator that determines timings from speed and distance it stated 125mph (non standing start) would take 17 mins. Or 16 minutes and 50 seconds.

Chances are you wouldn't be able to get the most direct route and unless each end is already 125mph running there'll be a bit of time required to get up to 125mph.

As such probably in the 19-24 minute range. Which is still shaving >15 minutes of the journey times, however at what cost?

You'd quite possibly need two grade separated junctions (one each end, at a cost of circa £150 million) plus whatever about 40 miles of twin track costs and all the land costs for that.

 

[Chris125]

I have a limited knowledge of the subject but as I understand it Electric trains cannot run at 125mph south of Bedford and there are no fixed plans to upgrade the OLE for the time being.

They are planning to upgrade the wires south of Bedford to 125mph, it's in the Enhancements Delivery Plan and has been confirmed by the appropriate minister IIRC.

 

[richieb1971]

Chances are you wouldn't be able to get the most direct route and unless each end is already 125mph running there'll be a bit of time required to get up to 125mph.

This is all true, but Leicester/STP services would obviously take this new route and it would shave at least 20 mins.

The only reason I brought this up is because the MML is done for upgrades. NR can't make it any faster than it is after the wires go up. You can't really get more capacity because 4 tracks is 4 tracks and you can't go any faster because every 5-10 miles is another great big bend. My idea is currently possible as nothing sits in the way, in 20 years time if capacity hits its limit, the MML will be flat out of ideas to improve and all that land that is currently available will unlikely be available. I don't believe that a really fast train should have to use the same tracks as slow/stopper trains. Its convenient yes, but its hard to maximize a railways potential when its own services are in the way.

 

[Bald Rick]

The last decent upgrade to the MML has already been done by putting 125mph running trains on it in terms of speed.

Bedford should be on a loop as it sticks out really badly compared to the other places. Bedford is the reason a lot of the twists and turns exist. If I were NR and happy to oblige I'd put Kettering, Wellingborough and Bedford on a loop and straight line a new track from Market Harborough and Ampthill tunnel since not much resides between the two places. If you could do 125mph from Market Harborough to Ampthill tunnel in a straight line it would take 17 minutes. It currently takes 40 minutes. The MML really suffers because the 100 miles north of London are riddled with bends that aren't suitable for 100mph+ running speeds. And we really want our railways modernised so that greater speeds can be achieved.

I did a straight line calculation using straight line calculator online. It stated 36 miles. Using another calculator that determines timings from speed and distance it stated 125mph (non standing start) would take 17 mins. Or 16 minutes and 50 seconds.

Chances are you wouldn't be able to get the most direct route and unless each end is already 125mph running there'll be a bit of time required to get up to 125mph.

As such probably in the 19-24 minute range. Which is still shaving >15 minutes of the journey times, however at what cost?

You'd quite possibly need two grade separated junctions (one each end, at a cost of circa £150 million) plus whatever about 40 miles of twin track costs and all the land costs for that.

This is all true, but Leicester/STP services would obviously take this new route and it would shave at least 20 mins.

The only reason I brought this up is because the MML is done for upgrades. NR can't make it any faster than it is after the wires go up. You can't really get more capacity because 4 tracks is 4 tracks and you can't go any faster because every 5-10 miles is another great big bend. My idea is currently possible as nothing sits in the way, in 20 years time if capacity hits its limit, the MML will be flat out of ideas to improve and all that land that is currently available will unlikely be available. I don't believe that a really fast train should have to use the same tracks as slow/stopper trains. Its convenient yes, but its hard to maximize a railways potential when its own services are in the way.

We’ve had this, or a similar discussion before. And I’m afraid it is ‘alternative facts’ at best. It does not take 40 minutes from Market Harboro to Ampthill on non stop trains, and hasn’t since steam days.

It is 42m 56ch between Flitwick Station and Market Harboro station, and exactly 2 miles fewer from the southern portal of Ampthill tunnel.

Non stop down trains are timed at 25 mins from Flitwick station to Market Harboro station, at an average of 102.5mph. From Ampthill tunnel to Market Harboro will be 24 minutes. Both these times include a mandatory 1 minute engineering allowance, so the ‘raw’ journey time is 23 minutes. The improvement at Market Harboro, and electric trains better acceleration (when they happen) from the three speed restrictions will save another minute, ie 22.

So even if you could build a railway in a dead straight line from Market Harboro to Ampthill (which I think we are agreed would not be possible, not least because there are several villages in the way, plus the western edge of Wellingboro’), and it could be done at 125mph the whole way, the absolute most you would save is 5 minutes.

Not really worth spending £2-3bn on is it?

Or to put it another way: to shave ‘at least 20 minutes’ off a 22 minute journey time means doing those 36 miles at an average of well over 1000mph.

Always check your facts!

 

[InTheEastMids]

Not really worth spending £2-3bn on is it?

You'd need to find £350M a week for the MML to build that. Shall we get that emblazoned on the side of a Meridian?

 

[richieb1971]

We’ve had this, or a similar discussion before. And I’m afraid it is ‘alternative facts’ at best. It does not take 40 minutes from Market Harboro to Ampthill on non stop trains.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C69946/2018/06/14/advanced

This is the fastest train I could find at 26 minutes. It was late last night I took the figure from Leicester.

There are some villages on the route, but we don't need absolute straight lines. Anyway, dreaming over.


We are in a country that is growing in population and you need contingency for extra capacity. If HS2 isn't cracking on soon all the railways in the southern sector will need billions spent on them. Spending money on straight tracks is the way forward. It kind of fixes everything in one swoop. You don't need tilting trains, you don't have any speed restriction whatsoever within reason going forward. I can't think of a better way to invest in our railways. Unfortunately my idea means the MML won't be uniform as you would have a wider gauge on the new track which isn't perfect.

 

[Bald Rick]

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C69946/2018/06/14/advanced

This is the fastest train I could find at 38 minutes.

There are some villages on the route, but we don't need absolute straight lines. Anyway, dreaming over.

Ok. So you’ve done your research. However you haven’t done your maths.

For the example you posted:

Flitwick pass 0716 1/2
Market Harboro pass 0741 1/2

25 minutes, no?