Moments when preserved railways, with a little bit of imagination, possibly capture the real thing…

[John Luxton]

Here is my offering - Carrog - Llangollen Railway - 2017. I think it must capture the atmosphere of the early 1960s perhaps in the last year or two of the Ruabon - Barmouth line.

Nothing anachronistic readily.

80072 is suitably grimy and being in monochrome it hides the one possible let down the green plastic planters.

I was only very young in the 1960s - but I don't recall my great aunt who used to like growing things getting plastic planters until early 70s!

 

[Cowley]

Here is my offering - Carrog - Llangollen Railway - 2017. I think it must capture the atmosphere of the early 1960s perhaps in the last year or two of the Ruabon - Barmouth line.

Nothing anachronistic readily.

80072 is suitably grimy and being in monochrome it hides the one possible let down the green plastic planters.

I was only very young in the 1960s - but I don't recall my great aunt who used to like growing things getting plastic planters until early 70s!


View attachment 112249

That’s really good. The work stained 80xxx really makes the picture work and I don’t think there’s anything obvious that gives it away as a modern picture.

 

[John Luxton]

I get this completely! And it's not just limited to preserved railways. I just can't get many current TV dramas set in the 60s as everything is just too clean and polished.
Was looking back at some 1970/80s photos online, and the piles of litter through station platforms was considerable, not to forget the shabby paint and griminess of everything which just isn't reproduced on preserved railways.

It's a good thing though, who wants to visit a dump?!

its a good point - I have recently waded through all the Heartbeat episodes having started watching early last year and finished when they reached the end about 3 weeks ago. They did try to be fairly accurate -but as the 60s progressed the appearance of steam locomotives towards the end was anachronistic as some of the cars had 1969 tax disks and I spotted one car with a 1970 suffix. However, some of the road vehicles were suitably rough at times and they certainly must have crashed a few classic cars for a bit of realism as I suspect a few prangs were not trick filming though it is obvious some where. Thus the likes of Heartbeat I would give about 7.5 / 10.

Moving on to more recent crime dramas Endeavour (Morse) doesn't do a bad job on the 60s - but Father Browne and the new spin off Sister Boniface have plenty of anachronisms not just in terms of how they look but also the dialogue

The episode of Sister Boniface last night had the two policemen sat in a car listening to a bug through head phones - which looked rather like ones I saw in a pop up advert on Facebook a few days ago. Back in the 1970s I was in my school CCF and we had a few army radios. What I recall of the headphones were they were much more primitive and probably the police in Sister Boniface should have been using something along that design being government issue. At present I think Father Brown / Sister Boniface would come in at 5/10 and 4/10- for period realism.

Some might say it doesn't matter as its just a drama - but I think it does matter I do like to see a lot of effort put in to get period things correct. Foyles War was spot on and I watched that with my mother at the time. She was often critical of period dramas depicting the "home front" having lived through the war years. She thought Foyle to be fairly spot on.

That’s really good. The work stained 80xxx really makes the picture work and I don’t think there’s anything obvious that gives it away as a modern picture.

Thanks!

 

[Davester50]

its a good point - I have recently waded through all the Heartbeat episodes having started watching early last year and finished when they reached the end about 3 weeks ago. They did try to be fairly accurate -but as the 60s progressed the appearance of steam locomotives towards the end was anachronistic as some of the cars had 1969 tax disks and I spotted one car with a 1970 suffix. However, some of the road vehicles were suitably rough at times and they certainly must have crashed a few classic cars for a bit of realism as I suspect a few prangs were not trick filming though it is obvious some where. Thus the likes of Heartbeat I would give about 7.5 / 10.

Moving on to more recent crime dramas Endeavour (Morse) doesn't do a bad job on the 60s - but Father Browne and the new spin off Sister Boniface have plenty of anachronisms not just in terms of how they look but also the dialogue

The episode of Sister Boniface last night had the two policemen sat in a car listening to a bug through head phones - which looked rather like ones I saw in a pop up advert on Facebook a few days ago. Back in the 1970s I was in my school CCF and we had a few army radios. What I recall of the headphones were they were much more primitive and probably the police in Sister Boniface should have been using something along that design being government issue. At present I think Father Brown / Sister Boniface would come in at 5/10 and 4/10- for period realism.

Some might say it doesn't matter as its just a drama - but I think it does matter I do like to see a lot of effort put in to get period things correct. Foyles War was spot on and I watched that with my mother at the time. She was often critical of period dramas depicting the "home front" having lived through the war years. She thought Foyle to be fairly spot on.

While it's drifting off topic, I feel "daytime" drama gets a pass for realism, it's not the big budget evening drama that strives or should be striving for realism.
It's the remake of The Ipcress File that's really annoying me. It's trying, there's distressed effects on the sets, but it's just missing the grime of the 60s. I gave up for the overly done camera angles though.

Back on topic, the carriage with the added effects looks the part.

The picture below (not mine, just a random selection) sums up the run-down nature of the 70s/80s

Class 302 203 & Class 307 128 - Southend Victoria. by Martyn Hilbert, on Flickr

Lots of litter, little fresh paint, and lots of grime. I'm glad that you'll not see much of that on preserved railways

 

[Cowley]

Lots of litter, little fresh paint, and lots of grime. I'm glad that you'll not see much of that on preserved railways

But also what jumps out is the mundane every day stuff.
That’s why I like a photo of something nondescript these days, because that’s what you miss the most in a funny kind of way.
DMUs make a good study for this kind of thing especially if they’re in a bland livery like all over blue.

A few too many heads out of windows but it reminded me of the early 1970s:

 

[Davester50]

Yes, it's shot to give a good effect, particuarly if it's not been 'shopped or had a filter applied.

 

[Peter Sarf]

So lovely photos.

That was one of my own thoughts when I took the photo - modern cameras take totally different photos. I've seen some cracking slightly modified modern era photos though, I'm not technical enough to be bothered editing things.

When you're stood in the moment however if you can zone out on the public (I hate staged photo charters personally!) it can feel quite out of this world at the GCR at times. Sometimes it's best to shut your eyes and just listen instead.

I have wondered before if the angle of the lens was different on old photos. I started photographing trains with a medium format camera. Used that until it got dropped by my sister - still have it incase I ever repair it and film processing goes cheap !. The results just looked different to later photos on my replacement Agfamatic (126 film iirc). Obviously a big drop in quality. When I had money in the late 80s I bought a 35mm SLR and tried recreating things with different zooms on my 28-80mm zoom lens. Not sure of success but I wonder what the zoom achieves regarding atmosphere. I certainly think modern photos need to be in black and white if trying to compare to historical scenes. More contrast it seems.

Talking of closing your eyes prompted a thought. Back in the day we did not necessarily stare and analyse the scene. We can only do that when looking at an old photo of the scene. So is our memory of old scenes accurate enough to compare with a photo ?.

 

[pdeaves]

Just to remind us as to how locomotives typically looked,View attachment 112244 WC "Barnstaple" at Nine Elms (1966)

I would really, really like to see something in that state in preservation, though I quite understand why the owners are unlikely to pander to such whims!

Pictures like that make me wonder what cleaners actually did then!

 

[Titfield]

That’s really good. The work stained 80xxx really makes the picture work and I don’t think there’s anything obvious that gives it away as a modern picture.

Being very very pedantic the flower troughs look modern to me plastic or terracotta however it is an excellent photograph.

It seems easier to get a more authentic look when the loco dominates the image than when say it is a more general short with more background.

 

[Cowley]

Being very very pedantic the flower troughs look modern to me plastic or terracotta however it is an excellent photograph.

It seems easier to get a more authentic look when the loco dominates the image than when say it is a more general short with more background.

Yes I think you’re right about that @Titfield.
There’s a challenge thrown down there though.

 

[John Luxton]

Yes I think you’re right about that @Titfield.
There’s a challenge thrown down there though.

Just cropped mine square - lose the flower troughs (but also the station sign )

Being square it could have been taken on a medium format 120 roll film camera such as a Rolleiflex which were popular in the day.

 

[Cowley]

Just cropped mine square - lose the flower troughs (but also the station sign )

Being square it could have been taken on a medium format 120 roll film camera such as a Rolleiflex which were popular in the day.

View attachment 112254

Clever!

 

[Peter Sarf]

Just cropped mine square - lose the flower troughs (but also the station sign )

Being square it could have been taken on a medium format 120 roll film camera such as a Rolleiflex which were popular in the day.

View attachment 112254

Ah good idea. I wonder if that is why I cannot recreate my medium format style (120 film) photos.

 

[John Luxton]

Ah good idea. I wonder if that is why I cannot recreate my medium format style (120 film) photos.

Most 120 cameras such a Rolleiflex took 12 on 120 though there were some 120 that took postcard shaped images with 8 on a roll. The same was true of 127 roll film cameras. My mother had a 127 Brownie which took 8 I was also given a 127 Brownie a later model mid 60s which took 12 and produced square images.

Talking Rolleiflex I bought a used one from the London Camera Exchange in Exeter about 1982. It was going cheap -£99 as the light meter was faulty but otherwise in excellent condition. In reality all the meter needed was recalibrating via an adjustment screw a few minutes work with a jewellers screwdriver.

As I was heavily into 35mm slides I didn't use it that much but did run some Agfa slide film through it. Of course a different projector was needed and I never got round to buying one.

Then in 1996 I did something incredibly stupid I decided to upgrade my 35mm gear and traded in the Rolleiflex as well. I just wish I had not done that now. Why?

Because some years ago I ran some of those large slides through a flat bed scanner and was amazed at the results. A few are of heritage railway subjects.

 

[Harvester]

I would really, really like to see something in that state in preservation, though I quite understand why the owners are unlikely to pander to such whims!

Pictures like that make me wonder what cleaners actually did then!

Some of the NER allocated A3s were running in grimey external condition by 1963. Hard to imagine “Flying Scotsman” running and looking like sister loco 60071, which I photographed at Northallerton on 6/7/63. Only the 52A shed plate is clean.

The A3 is joining the ECML, after running down the Durham Coast on a Newcastle to Colchester train.

 

[xotGD]

Only the 52A shed plate is clean.

Those lads at Gateshead took great pride in their locos!

 

[Peter C]

I've had a look through some of my photos and whilst I doubt they're any good, there's no harm in sharing them!


GWR 1340 TROJAN passes a small signalbox en-route to its destination, somewhere along a small branch line?


6697 sits in the engine shed at Didcot, 1935 perhaps? The original photo was a bit dark and gloomy anyway so that's helped a bit with this one.


1340 again - this time as viewed from the road on the way to the station.


A really basic one - but it didn't look awful (at least not to me but then obviously that's subjective!).


If only that 'King' didn't have a smokebox-door number plate!


6023 King Edward II is seen in the engine shed at Didcot - probably 1960-ish?


And now this is going back all the way to Brunel's broad gauge. I think this one could've done with a bit more blurring?

Anyway - like I say, probably not all that good but there we are.

-Peter

 

[pdeaves]

6697 sits in the engine shed at Didcot, 1935 perhaps? The original photo was a bit dark and gloomy anyway so that's helped a bit with this one.

That one works very well.

 

[Cowley]

That one works very well.

Yes that’s a really good photo. I like the one with the shovels too.
Didcot does capture the real thing extremely well (probably because it was the real thing).

I showed this thread to a friend yesterday and he sent me this one of Warship D821 which I thought was rather good.

 

[Peter C]

That one works very well.

Why thank you!

Yes that’s a really good photo. I like the one with the shovels too.
Didcot does capture the real thing extremely well (probably because it was the real thing).

Thank you @Cowley - Didcot is super at recreating the real thing. I've not been to one of their photo charter event things but even without those you can still get a brilliant idea of what it looked like in the 1930s.

I showed this thread to a friend yesterday and he sent me this one of Warship D821 which I thought was rather good.

View attachment 112320

Now that is nice. Loving the detail on the engine.

View attachment 112193
Dropping down to the shed at Loughborough. A long lens and a bit of steam hides most of the modern intrusions present in the area. Hopefully the general atmosphere is enough to distract from the modern car just visible in the background!

[...]

View attachment 112201
Edit: actually, one more. Something a little different, that's thankfully rarely recreated in preservation!

I also particularly like these two - the first one is really good indeed.

-Peter

 

[John Luxton]

View attachment 112309
And now this is going back all the way to Brunel's broad gauge. I think this one could've done with a bit more blurring?

Anyway - like I say, probably not all that good but there we are.

-Peter

Some good shots there but why would you want to blur the broad gauge one?

Many early photographs taken of broad gauge and other railway scenes would have been taken on plate cameras mounted on a tripod and would be sharp unless there was excessive motion. This was because emulsions on glass plate negatives would have been quite slow.

Hence one can get ghosting in some photos if a person moves between the start and end of the exposure.

I would avoid the blurring.

Probably the worst type of camera for that sort of blurring at least in my own experience was the 127 Kodak Brownie of the 1950s/60s I should know that as I used my mothers a 1950s mark 1 before I received my own a 1960s mark 3. Thus I would say blur the 1950s/60s images if you want that effect.

Looking at the many Brownie 127 images I have at home virtually none are sharp.

 

[Peter C]

Some good shots there but why would you want to blur the broad gauge one?

Many early photographs taken of broad gauge and other railway scenes would have been taken on plate cameras mounted on a tripod and would be sharp unless there was excessive motion. This was because emulsions on glass plate negatives would have been quite slow.

Hence one can get ghosting in some photos if a person moves between the start and end of the exposure.

I would avoid the blurring.

Probably the worst type of camera for that sort of blurring at least in my own experience was the 127 Kodak Brownie of the 1950s/60s I should know that as I used my mothers a 1950s mark 1 before I received my own a 1960s mark 3. Thus I would say blur the 1950s/60s images if you want that effect.

Looking at the many Brownie 127 images I have at home virtually none are sharp.

I must admit I didn't know any of that - thank you! I was sort of going on the assumption "old photo = blurry", which is wrong. I'll have to go through and have another go at making it look realistic!

-Peter

 

[John Luxton]

I must admit I didn't know any of that - thank you! I was sort of going on the assumption "old photo = blurry", which is wrong. I'll have to go through and have another go at making it look realistic!

-Peter

Just Google GW Broad gauge photos and you will see most of the static ones are pin sharp! Some evidence of movement in some where the locomotive is at speed - but ones in stations and good shed are sharp.

In an earlier posting I commented on the square images produced by many 6x6 neg/slide roll film cameras such as the Rolleiflex and cropped my Carrog image to from landscape to square to create a pseudo 6x6 image.

This is a genuine 6x6 image from Agfa CT100 taken in 1982 on the Rolleiflex I bought from London Camera Exchange in Exeter. Probably was the first film through the camera. Its 1450 running into Staverton on a Buckfastleigh train.

I have converted it to mono for effect. Perhaps the only give away was that was when it carried a small name plate - but it is not very noticeable. There is a slight amount of motion blur.

 

[D6130]

The A3 is joining the ECML, after running down the Durham Coast on a Newcastle to Colchester train.

There's another 1960s period piece in that photo....the class 25 with a brake tender in the sidings.

WC "Barnstaple" at Nine Elms (1966)

There weren't many cleaners left by that time, as recruiting to the grade had ceased. Most of the remaining ones would have been working on the footplate as 'passed cleaners', firing locos on the main line.

 

[Harvester]

There's another 1960s period piece in that photo....the class 25 with a brake tender in the sidings.

Yes I managed to get the goods yard in the frame, but sliced off the top of the signal box. I was a young teenager at the time, using a newly acquired camera.

There weren't many cleaners left by that time, as recruiting to the grade had ceased. Most of the remaining ones would have been working on the footplate as 'passed cleaners', firing locos on the main line.

The recruiting problem really was serious at Nine Elms. Towards the end of steam, all firemen/passed cleaners in No 3 link were under 20 years old, and firing Bulleid Pacifics on some Bournemouth runs.

Source: The Twilight of Southern Steam (Don Benn)

 

[Bertie the bus]

A couple from Rawtenstall:

Faded Class 110 with a bit of graffiti and a patchwork, barren platform.

110 51842 51813 Rawtenstall

Class 110 51842 + 51813 at Rawtenstall on the 18:30 - Bury on 15/06/91.

flic.kr

And a faded Railfreight 47 with a lengthy rake of blue / grey Mk 1's + plenty of weeds

47306 Rawtenstall

47306 'The Sapper' at Rawtenstall on the 08:50 ex Bury on 10/09/99.

flic.kr

 

[Flying Phil]

Here is one from 2018 on the GCR...


It had to be heavily "Cropped" to eliminate the modern, but the copper and brass are relatively subdued!

 

[341o2]

How about using split toning to achieve a sepia effect, the clarity slider negative to increase grain, and a vignette to create the effect of an old faded photograph. (For Photoshop users)

 

[Cowley]

How about using split toning to achieve a sepia effect, the clarity slider negative to increase grain, and a vignette to create the effect of an old faded photograph. (For Photoshop users)

I’m up for doing that but I’m not quite sure where to start?
All of my photos tend to be done via a shonky old iPhone…

 

[341o2]

I should have said that I use photoshop via a PC, there are free alternatives such as Gimp or Faststone image viewer which can create the same effects