More dangerous lineside behaviour around Flying Scotsman

[randyrippley]

So we shouldn't advertise this at all and keep it for a select few ?

Not forgetting this is a nice little bump for Realtimetrains. Potentially a few more users for that site.

This should really be supported.

nothing about a "select few"
the times should not be advertised at all, and really should be suppressed on RTT and the like

 

[ainsworth74]

More of a general query, but last Saturday, we were on the TPE service from Manchester Picccadilly to Durham. Was "Flying Scotsman" in steam on the lines outside the National Railway Museum in York?

It was indeed.

 

[DanDaDriver]

Bloody brainless!!!
To be fair he wasn’t the only one.
Down the line at Willington there were so called photters sitting the wrong side of the fence adjacent to the line. There will be a tragic accident soon & then what?
As for the brainless donk at Elford he wants naming & shaming.

Yes. He definitely looks like the sort of Facebook chav who’s gone out with his iphone......... Not an old boy spotter at all. Definitely not that

 

[HOOVER29]

Willington incident.

It shames me to say that I live within 8 miles of both the incident at Elford & this one at Willington.

I’d shop the lot of them at the drop of a hat if I knew they’d be prosecuted & I don’t care what anyone thinks about that.

It’s these so called enthusiasts that have given the rest of us law abiding enthusiasts a bad name.

Put the number 61016 in your phone.
Those that don’t know, it’s the number of the BT police.
See them trespassing, shop em.

Not got the same ring about it as see it say it sorted has it lol.

 

[randyrippley]

...............I’d shop the lot of them at the drop of a hat if I knew they’d be prosecuted & I don’t care what anyone thinks about that.

It’s these so called enthusiasts that have given the rest of us law abiding enthusiasts a bad name.

Put the number 61016 in your phone.
Those that don’t know, it’s the number of the BT police.
See them trespassing, shop em.

Not got the same ring about it as see it say it sorted has it lol.

See'em Shop'em Stop'em Got'em!!!???

 

[HOOVER29]

I like it.

 

[theironroad]

Willington incident.

It shames me to say that I live within 8 miles of both the incident at Elford & this one at Willington.

I’d shop the lot of them at the drop of a hat if I knew they’d be prosecuted & I don’t care what anyone thinks about that.

It’s these so called enthusiasts that have given the rest of us law abiding enthusiasts a bad name.

Put the number 61016 in your phone.
Those that don’t know, it’s the number of the BT police.
See them trespassing, shop em.

Not got the same ring about it as see it say it sorted has it lol.

Did they climb back over after the XC had gone as I could hear a lady suggesting in the background they might?

 

[Cowley]

The only thing that’s going to stop people behaving like this is a few prosecutions and some heavy fines.
Hopefully that’ll happen at some point.

 

[Esker-pades]

The train driver is a typical PC type pratt that unfortunately there are so many of these days...

Sadly, the above is the sort of mindset that has to be dealt with. The "it was fine in my day" people who regard any Health and Safety legislation since 1874 a backwards step.

The only thing that’s going to stop people behaving like this is a few prosecutions and some heavy fines.
Hopefully that’ll happen at some point.

Agreed.

 

[221129]

Is that total minutes (including the impact minutes) ?

No....

 

[DarloRich]

I agree with this. Yesterday's tour was very well publicised in the media. It wasn't enthusiasts out in huge numbers, it was the facebook generation just wanting selfies to put on their facebook page to get some likes. FS has been out on the main line all over the place, as light engine positioning movements and test runs, without the selfie generation in huge numbers on the route. I've seen it a dozen or so times now in and around Carnforth on loco movements, test runs and ECS, and there's never more than a handful of people at each level crossing, station or other lineside vantage point - the few who follow websites like this and railcom and use realtimetrains. There were more people at Carnforth to see the 37's on the last loco hauled Cumbria coast service than there were last time I went to see FS there. Perhaps we should find a way to stop the media hyping it up to the facebook/twitter generation. A quick google search shows a number of media outlets were hyping it up yesterday and doing the same for Tuesday's trip via Lincoln to York.

I would very much disagree. As I said the pictures i have seen show people armed with tripods, decent cameras etc not selfie types.

Why cant people here admit the truth? Is it too uncomfortable?

 

[Esker-pades]

Why cant people here admit the truth? Is it too uncomfortable?

What is "the truth"?

 

[jamesst]

Just ban them, relegate tours to heritage lines and remember the railways role is to provide a service for the general public not as a spotters playground.

I've been given abuse in the past for stopping my train at a platform and blocking views of a steam train on an adjacent siding. You have to wonder at the mentality of some of these people.

 

[nickswift99]

The alternative approach might be to make steam workings a common sight. This would mean they were no longer "special" and the vast majority of people would no longer be interested in taking pictures.

 

[driver_m]

Just ban them, relegate tours to heritage lines and remember the railways role is to provide a service for the general public not as a spotters playground.

I've been given abuse in the past for stopping my train at a platform and blocking views of a steam train on an adjacent siding. You have to wonder at the mentality of some of these people.

Well said. The ‘it’s everyone else’s fault’ is very strong on here. Admit it spotters, this is your fault, collectively. Howl all you want. But it’s your fraternity that cause this. You put the frighteners up us with your urge to look at a number, or get that photo that someone has already done a better job of in the past. We shouldn’t have our jobs disrupted because of it, and more importantly Joe Bloggs pays a lot of money not to have his journey wrecked by a spotter thinking that they’re ok to trespass a bit because they ‘know’ the railway, as if it’s like doing 33 in a 30 zone. You might never have done it, but frankly I don’t care, Too many have, so don’t come crying on here when NR eventually decide it’s not worth the hassle.

 

[driver_m]

The alternative approach might be to make steam workings a common sight. This would mean they were no longer "special" and the vast majority of people would no longer be interested in taking pictures.

Well stick FS on the bins in and out of Folly Lane then back to Manchester. For a few weeks, Stick Tornado and Mallard on the Abbey flyer either end. Even after a month solid you’d still get idiots chancing a daft photo.

 

[Darandio]

The alternative approach might be to make steam workings a common sight. This would mean they were no longer "special" and the vast majority of people would no longer be interested in taking pictures.

How do you propose that would happen then? It sounds more like an enthusiast looking to run more kettles on the line.

 

[duffield]

...
the red man is advisory, not a legal requirement. Crossing on a red man is safe if you look for traffic before crossing, it is no different to crossing a road where there is no pelican crossing. ..

And, as it happens, a road junction 200 yards from my house is *safer* to cross in one direction on the red man than the green man; the green man gives a false sense of security, often there is right-turning traffic coming from behind you when it is lit, whereas when the red man is lit any traffic is coming from in front of you and both you and the driver can clearly see each other.

 

[Ianno87]

The alternative approach might be to make steam workings a common sight. This would mean they were no longer "special" and the vast majority of people would no longer be interested in taking pictures.

Well stick FS on the bins in and out of Folly Lane then back to Manchester. For a few weeks, Stick Tornado and Mallard on the Abbey flyer either end. Even after a month solid you’d still get idiots chancing a daft photo.

Compromise. Repaint Scotsman in FGW 'Fag Packet' livery, or maybe Regional Railways livery. It could still go out, but nobody would want to photo it anymore.




[The above is not an entirely serious comment...]

 

[duffield]

Always surprises US visitors, where jaywalking has long been illegal.

Pedantically speaking, the US laws relating to jaywalking vary considerably (e.g.) between states and between urban and rural areas. US visitors to another state might well be surprised by the local laws.

Something I have to even remind myself of occasionally is that in some respects the US is more like the EU (an association of states) than a single country.

 

[Aictos]

nothing about a "select few"
the times should not be advertised at all, and really should be suppressed on RTT and the like

Agreed especially as it’s becoming so much of a issue, I feel Network Rail will be left with little choice other then a outright ban.

 

[433N]

Admit it spotters, this is your fault, collectively. Howl all you want. But it’s your fraternity that cause this.

Whilst I understand your anger, your logic is a bit bonkers.
It is really akin to saying that all kids are responsible for every bit of vandalism that is done and that all Muslims are responsible for suicide bombing.

[PS : Don't really care about FS to be honest.]

 

[JonathanH]

Perhaps a similar approach for Scotsman, with charter paths for it granted on condition that non-station stop timings are not leaked? Would likely require changes to access contracts etc though.

If you advertise the station stops it isn't rocket science to guess whether it may use a particular route.

All the open data does is reduce the amount of time people have to stay out to see the train pass - if it was 'secret' people would still go out to see it.

The next outing for Flying Scotsman appears to be an empty movement to York this week and then York to Edinburgh on Thursday. Timings already available for that trip - http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U55412/2019/05/09/advanced.

I didnt know that until I looked at the UK Steam website http://www.uksteam.info/tours/trs19.htm

Do you think that the UK Steam website should be shut down as well? It is a valuable resource for people wanting to travel on the trains (as are the brochures in the first place) as well as those who want to take pictures.

Whether steam continues to run is firmly in the hands of Ian Prosser and his team at Her Majesty's Railway Inspectorate. Trespass incidents will be viewed with interest by his team. We know that he already has Mk1 (and Mk2) rolling stock on his radar as not being acceptable on the modern railway and the ability of travellers on those trains (as well as other charter trains) to put parts of their body out of the window. This isn't the only problem of course - the lack of controlled emission toilets is another threat.

These issues might be overcome with the future use of Mk3s released from the Anglia route but if trespass continues that may not be enough.

 

[bramling]

Well said. The ‘it’s everyone else’s fault’ is very strong on here. Admit it spotters, this is your fault, collectively. Howl all you want. But it’s your fraternity that cause this. You put the frighteners up us with your urge to look at a number, or get that photo that someone has already done a better job of in the past. We shouldn’t have our jobs disrupted because of it, and more importantly Joe Bloggs pays a lot of money not to have his journey wrecked by a spotter thinking that they’re ok to trespass a bit because they ‘know’ the railway, as if it’s like doing 33 in a 30 zone. You might never have done it, but frankly I don’t care, Too many have, so don’t come crying on here when NR eventually decide it’s not worth the hassle.

Sounds very much like the simple-minded "a Muslim did a terror attack so I'm going to be nasty to all Muslims as they must be terrorists" line to me.

Individuals make their own choices and life decisions, and what someone else does or doesn't do has SFA to do with me.

Having said that, I suspect it may well turn out to be the case that someone, probably NR, will decide it's causing too much trouble. I couldn't really blame them.

 

[Dr_Paul]

Considerable = 100 minutes, just for that incident!
And then another 26 when the loco threw a hissy fit at Tyseley, and blew its water injector.

According to Real Time Trains, it left York six minutes late, and made up time to be one minute late at Sherburn-tin-Elmet; after that it became progressively delayed (with occasional making up of a little time): 30 minutes at Meadowhall, 49 minutes at Burton on Trent, 112 minutes at Coleshill, 180 minutes -- three hours! -- at Reading, where, according to RTT, the loco conked out.

 

[driver_m]

I knew exactly the kind of response I’d get. ‘Bonkers’ ‘simple minded’.

What other approach will work then? Ask nicely and stand behind the fence?
Hide the timings?
Ban all publicity?

None of it has worked...
Maybe the big stick needs to be wielded.
Looking at the bigger picture here and keeping a service running normally trumps upsetting a few spotters. You tell the ‘old boy’ in the twitter photo that’s he’s out of order. Does he seriously look like he is going to listen to anyone? No, he wants his photo. Pure arrogance in that photo.

 

[jamesst]

I knew exactly the kind of response I’d get. ‘Bonkers’ ‘simple minded’.

What other approach will work then? Ask nicely and stand behind the fence?
Hide the timings?
Ban all publicity?

None of it has worked...
Maybe the big stick needs to be wielded.
Looking at the bigger picture here and keeping a service running normally trumps upsetting a few spotters. You tell the ‘old boy’ in the twitter photo that’s he’s out of order. Does he seriously look like he is going to listen to anyone? No, he wants his photo. Pure arrogance in that photo.

Exactly, it's a very real problem that can easily be cured by stopping them.
Will spotters be annoyed? Yep
Will tocs be happy they don't have delayed trains due to trespassers? Yep
Will the general public be happy that the train hasn't been delayed by trespassers? Most definitely

 

[driver_m]

This is unacceptable behaviour. There is no other description for it. If anyone knows these fools. Give their names in to BTP. Though hopefully it has probably already been done by now.

 

[Darandio]

Sounds very much like the simple-minded "a Muslim did a terror attack so I'm going to be nasty to all Muslims as they must be terrorists" line to me.

I suppose you deserve credit for somehow managing to get Muslims and terrorists into a thread about Flying Scotsman. It amazes me how you manage it. But no, it bears no similarity at all.

Anyone can see that it's beyond a joke now and it isn't just Flying Scotsman, it happens any time one of these relics get let out on to the network. Prosecution is no deterrent for these people, their braindead behaviour is documented everywhere with a variety of close calls, they seem eager to risk their life for the perfect shot. You cannot change that mindset with a monetary penalty and be honest here, nobody is going to throw them in jail for this.

Someone upthread suggesting making it more common. Nonsense. Eliminate it altogether. Restrict them to the heritage railway where they can chuff around as much as they want in a their own controlled (that makes me chuckle as well!) environment.

 

[DanDaDriver]

This is unacceptable behaviour. There is no other description for it. If anyone knows these fools. Give their names in to BTP. Though hopefully it has probably already been done by now. View attachment 62556

The limited clearance sign is the cherry on the cake there.

Again, they certainly look like all those “Facebook generation,” chavs who are famous for their love of old steam locomotives...::