More gateline woes - Perth

[sheff1]

After breaking my journey overnight on the return half of a Sheffield to Aberdeen ticket, the ticket was rejected by the barrier at Perth.

“ You’ve put the wrong ticket in” claimed the barrier staff. When I said that I had broken my journey he said “ the ticket is from Aberdeen, you need one from Perth to somewhere”. Even production of my seat reservation south from Perth on the soon to depart train didn’t change his mind - “ that ticket is from Aberdeen, you need one from Perth”.
When I said I certainly didn’t he decided to call someone else who quickly confirmed my ticket was fine and openend the barrier.

What makes people make up such non existent rules ? Clearly not a station wide issue.

Interestingly, when exiting the station the day before I heard someone else whose ticket had been rejected being told they needed a ticket to Perth and seemingly being sold something. Obviously I do not know the details there, but in view of my experience wonder whether they also had a valid ticket.

 

[WesternLancer]

After breaking my journey overnight on the return half of a Sheffield to Aberdeen ticket, the ticket was rejected by the barrier at Perth.

“ You’ve put the wrong ticket in” claimed the barrier staff. When I said that I had broken my journey he said “ the ticket is from Aberdeen, you need one from Perth to somewhere”. Even production of my seat reservation south from Perth on the soon to depart train didn’t change his mind - “ that ticket is from Aberdeen, you need one from Perth”.
When I said I certainly didn’t he decided to call someone else who quickly confirmed my ticket was fine and openend the barrier.

What makes people make up such non existent rules ? Clearly not a station wide issue.

Interestingly, when exiting the station the day before I heard someone else whose ticket had been rejected being told they needed a ticket to Perth and seemingly being sold something. Obviously I do not know the details there, but in view of my experience wonder whether they also had a valid ticket.

Ultimately I assume poor training given to barrier staff (unless it is staff failing to listen to training they are given, or not being able to understand it even if they are listening).

Do Scotrail use agency type staff for these sorts of roles, as opposed to permanent contracted staff?

 

[Hadders]

It'll be poor training. I would complain to Scotrail and ask them to remind staff.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Too little training

Too much faith in the barriers

 

[AlterEgo]

Many countries manage fine without barriers. We should really go the same way.

 

[Puffing Devil]

Many countries manage fine without barriers. We should really go the same way.

I disagree. I believe it caps evasion at major terminus stations, certainly in Manchester.

The argument about the training provided for the barrier guards is a different matter.

 

[Spurs]

Many countries manage fine without barriers. We should really go the same way.

I like this idea. There is just something that feels more civilised about it too, in my opinion. It's like those supermarkets which insist you scan a receipt to leave now - it's an assumption that you at least might have criminal intent and need to prove otherwise.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

I like this idea. There is just something that feels more civilised about it too, in my opinion. It's like those supermarkets which insist you scan a receipt to leave now - it's an assumption that you at least might have criminal intent and need to prove otherwise.

Barriers (whether at stations or supermarkets) cost money. It seems to me that it follows from this that barriers must be expected to bring in more money than they cost - and the wide implementation of them in both stations and supermarkets (far beyond a pilot scheme to prove the concept) would seem to suggest that they are financially beneficial.

In other words, you might not have criminal intent, but it looks as if some of your fellow passengers do.

 

[gray1404]

Given that this is not an isolated incident as you saw it happen to somebody else, I would make a complaint to the operator of the station which I assume is Scotrail.

 

[saismee]

As @WesternLancer mentioned, the member of staff may be from an agency (or even just from another station on relief duty). If they don't know the area well, they may not understand which routes would have valid breaks. I know that has tripped me up a little bit before. In my case it was day 1 in an area I didn't know... I solved it by asking them to bare with me while I just confirm that it's valid. This obviously means it's a training issue - they should've been trained to actually check which ticket is valid if the customer disagrees (and they don't know, because clearly they don't).

 

[thejuggler]

If you want experts you need to train them as experts, reward them as experts, but also reprimand them as experts.

As gateline staff are on little more than minimum wage you won't be employing experts, you therefore need to ensure someone somewhere is an expert and the training to the none expert is to revert to the expert, not pretend they are an expert!

 

[AlterEgo]

I don’t think you need to be an expert to know tickets have a concept called break of journey. That’s just the tyranny of low expectations.

 

[WesternLancer]

I don’t think you need to be an expert to know tickets have a concept called break of journey. That’s just the tyranny of low expectations.

You’d think so. But I regularly encounter people who think it’s like a bus ticket (or perhaps like an old fashioned bus ticket with lots of different fare stages rather than the more common flat fare systems of recent years that had emerged even before Covid related bus fare cap)

 

[AlterEgo]

You’d think so. But I regularly encounter people who think it’s like a bus ticket (or perhaps like an old fashioned bus ticket with lots of different fare stages rather than the more common flat fare systems of recent years that had emerged even before Covid related bus fare cap)

But if those are laypeople that could be understandable. We’re talking about staff here.

Nobody expects the gateline to be literal experts, but they should have basic training and understand a ticket can have break of journey. Surely nobody expects staff to have the same level of knowledge as a customer!

 

[yorkie]

Also, if in doubt, allow travel. Make a note of the ticket and, when the opportunity arises, ask an expert for future reference.

Sadly, there are sufficient safeguards in place at companies such as Scotrail to ensure that staff behave correctly and appropriately; this goes from a lack of expectations, a lack of due diligence when appointing staff, a lack of training, a lack of 'mystery shopping' and a deep-rooted cultural problem.

 

[Sonic1234]

Barriers (whether at stations or supermarkets) cost money. It seems to me that it follows from this that barriers must be expected to bring in more money than they cost - and the wide implementation of them in both stations and supermarkets (far beyond a pilot scheme to prove the concept) would seem to suggest that they are financially beneficial.

In other words, you might not have criminal intent, but it looks as if some of your fellow passengers do.

It's interesting how that calculation varies between different TOCs. GTR gate everything, if it's not gated on GTR it must be a really small station or architecturally impossible. SE don't gate stations outside of terminals and major towns. Wonder who is right in their calculations?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

It's interesting how that calculation varies between different TOCs. GTR gate everything, if it's not gated on GTR it must be a really small station or architecturally impossible. SE don't gate stations outside of terminals and major towns. Wonder who is right in their calculations?

Merseyrail have adopted the same solution as SE - presumably on the logic that virtually all journeys will go through a gated station at one end or the other, so this optimises cost by detecting most fraud at comparatively low cost.

Does GTR have more minor to minor travel than SE perhaps? It may also be worth noting that we see very a lot of GTR cases on this forum which might suggest their regime works (we see a lot of cases from GTR) or that it doesn't (there are a lot of people still fare dodging on GTR).

 

[alex17595]

It may also be worth noting that we see very a lot of GTR cases on this forum which might suggest their regime works (we see a lot of cases from GTR) or that it doesn't (there are a lot of people still fare dodging on GTR).

I imagine this is because it's much easier to detect short faring, especially if there is a gate at either end.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You’d think so. But I regularly encounter people who think it’s like a bus ticket (or perhaps like an old fashioned bus ticket with lots of different fare stages rather than the more common flat fare systems of recent years that had emerged even before Covid related bus fare cap)

Or they were told Advances have to start at the right station (which per the T&C they do) and extrapolated it to everything.

 

[Sonic1234]

Surely nobody expects staff to have the same level of knowledge as a customer!

There a lot that have less knowledge!

The best "customer service" is at ungated unstaffed stations. Don't have to argue about break of journey and ticket validity with someone who is barely awake from OnTrak then.

 

[Benjwri]

There a lot that have less knowledge!

The best "customer service" is at ungated unstaffed stations. Don't have to argue about break of journey and ticket validity with someone who is barely awake from OnTrak then.

I would much rather have a gated station, and staff who are, to be fair, for the most part fine, than have the problems some stations which are unstaffed have with anti social behavior, and a just general feeling of being unsafe, at night. I used to live near a bunch of ungated stations. These problems were big, and the line was notorious for casual fare evasion, because the trains were DOO and the stations were ungated. It was an open secret in the area, I knew plenty of people from all walks of life that did it.

 

[WesternLancer]

But if those are laypeople that could be understandable. We’re talking about staff here.

Nobody expects the gateline to be literal experts, but they should have basic training and understand a ticket can have break of journey. Surely nobody expects staff to have the same level of knowledge as a customer!

Well exactly right

 

[Wallsendmag]

Also, if in doubt, allow travel. Make a note of the ticket and, when the opportunity arises, ask an expert for future reference.

Sadly, there are sufficient safeguards in place at companies such as Scotrail to ensure that staff behave correctly and appropriately; this goes from a lack of expectations, a lack of due diligence when appointing staff, a lack of training, a lack of 'mystery shopping' and a deep-rooted cultural problem.

We have chatgroups with our various gateline staff to report faults and ask questions