More questions about lever frames

[DistantAR3]

I know you can get electric and mechanical signals, but can electric signals also be semaphores with motors attached (if those exist), also are there mechanical and electrical points, FPL and a combination of them in 1 lever?
Also for stop+distant signal combine levers can those be mechanical as well as electric?
And finally, can gate locks/ground frame be electrical?

Something else I'm wondering is can level crossings with barriers be operated from brown levers?

Sorry for 2 posts just rammed with questions, I'm creating a signalling simulator and want it to be as accurate as possible.

 

[High Dyke]

Yes. Some locations have motor worked semaphore signals. Mainly distant signals, but the odd stop signal can be like that.

Electrically worked points have a form of facing point lock in their operation. Ground frames can be electrically released, sometimes these can be remote from the controlling signal box. Then the method of working includes telephone and/or bell codes for the operator.

 

[MarkyT]

I know you can get electric and mechanical signals, but can electric signals also be semaphores with motors attached (if those exist)

Yes semaphore signal machines were quite common in early electric signalling.

, also are there mechanical and electrical points, FPL and a combination of them in 1 lever?

Economical point operation is the term for single lever mechanical point movement and locking. There were a number of patent mechanisms, able to both move the point then engage the FPL bolt in the movement of a single lever, usually by means of a cam arrangements to allow lost motion of the main drive while the bolt is driven first out of the port before movement starts then back in at the end of the stroke. The basic concept is still incorporated in some electric point machines.

Also for stop+distant signal combine levers can those be mechanical as well as electric?

These are for controlling a home signal and its associated separate distant on approach from the same lever. I know of no wholly mechanical implementations of that, although electric machine operation of semaphores could plausibly allow it for one or both of the pair. Not liked traditionally in AB areas due to certain scenarios where regulations require the distant maintained at caution for a degraded acceptance. Useful for an Intermediate Block installation for controlling both IB home and distant. Could also be a semaphore home mechanically operated, also controlling a colour light distant electrically.

And finally, can gate locks/ground frame be electrical?

Yes some ground frames are wholly electric with a small trackside switch panel in a cabinet and electric point machines. Many small gate cabins have had lever equipment replaced by small electric switch panels. In many cases the levers were previously just being used as big switches anyway.

Something else I'm wondering is can level crossings with barriers be operated from brown levers?

Often there's still a gate lock lever in the frame which is operated to release the signals once barriers are observed closed and clear. The barriers are operated from a small control console by the window with a good view over the crossing.

Sorry for 2 posts just rammed with questions, I'm creating a signalling simulator and want it to be as accurate as possible.

Hope that's of help.

 

[John Webb]

.....Also for stop+distant signal combine levers can those be mechanical as well as electric?.....

The original Intermediate Block Signals (IBSs) were motor-worked semaphores, first used on the GWR around 1907. As colour light signals became more common in the 1920s, they were preferred for use as IBSs. British Railways introduced a lot more colour-light IBSs as part of their modernisation plan.

 

[Annetts key]

It should be noted that most levers that only operated an electrical item/equipment were shorter in length. This was a reminder to the signaller that they only needed a "light" amount of effort to operate them.

 

[Gostav]

And in some videos showed that the signalman often pauses in the middle when pulling the electrical lever then pull it in place, as if waiting for the motor to react?

 

[Gloster]

And in some videos showed that the signalman often pauses in the middle when pulling the electrical lever then pull it in place, as if waiting for the motor to react?

Yes, that is what s/he is waiting for. Many of the Western Region frames that I worked had slight dips in the top of the quadrant so that the lever could be ‘rested’ while the point or signal motor worked. The signalman will be watching the indicator as it indicates when then lever can complete its movement. In most cases the lever will not travel the whole way from Normal to Reverse or v.v. until the motor has completed its travel.

 

[matchmaker]

The original Intermediate Block Signals (IBSs) were motor-worked semaphores, first used on the GWR around 1907. As colour light signals became more common in the 1920s, they were preferred for use as IBSs. British Railways introduced a lot more colour-light IBSs as part of their modernisation plan.

The only motor operated semaphore IBs I can remember were between Dalmeny Station and Saughton Junction. Any others I've have been colour light. There are for example two sets in each direction between Blair Atholl and Dalwhinnie - I don't know how common this scenario is.

 

[Annetts key]

And in some videos showed that the signalman often pauses in the middle when pulling the electrical lever then pull it in place, as if waiting for the motor to react?

Yes, that is what s/he is waiting for. Many of the Western Region frames that I worked had slight dips in the top of the quadrant so that the lever could be ‘rested’ while the point or signal motor worked. The signalman will be watching the indicator as it indicates when then lever can complete its movement. In most cases the lever will not travel the whole way from Normal to Reverse or v.v. until the motor has completed its travel.

As the interlocking is the mechanical frame, the single point lever is prevented from completing the movement until the motor operated point has gained electrical detection for the position it is supposed to be going to. Once electrical detection has been gained, the lever is released so that the signaller can complete the movement of the lever, hence allowing the mechanical interlocking to release the appropriate signal levers.

Note that where I state electrical detection above, in practice this means that all the points controlled by the lever have been commanded to move, the switch rails for these points have moved to the correct position and are being detected in that position and the FPL (where provided) in the electric point machine(s) have successfully bolted.

Most electrical point machines can motor a set of points in 3 to 5 seconds.

 

[MarkyT]

As the interlocking is the mechanical frame, the single point lever is prevented from completing the movement until the motor operated point has gained electrical detection for the position it is supposed to be going to. Once electrical detection has been gained, the lever is released so that the signaller can complete the movement of the lever, hence allowing the mechanical interlocking to release the appropriate signal levers.

That was the standard design for electrical point machines operated by levers on the Western. I've not seen it on other regions. There are other uses for electrical locks at intermediate lever positions, notably back locks that prevent the full normalisation of a signal lever until route and approach locking have disengaged, often found in heavily modernised installations from the 60s controlling colour light signalling on very busy lines, at Stafford for example (until recently).

 

[MadMac]

That was the standard design for electrical point machines operated by levers on the Western. I've not seen it on other regions. There are other uses for electrical locks at intermediate lever positions, notably back locks that prevent the full normalisation of a signal lever until route and approach locking have disengaged, often found in heavily modernised installations from the 60s controlling colour light signalling on very busy lines, at Stafford for example (until recently).

Was the standard on ScR. ‘NBDR’ lever lock, held in the ‘D’ check when going N-R until detection made up, held in ‘B’ when going R-N.