Most "interesting" bus company for workings

[nw1]

My local company is Bluestar, and it's of note that, particularly since the end of First in Southampton, they have distinctly "interesting" workings from a "variety" perspective.

What I mean by that is:

- A wide variety of vehicles, of varying ages
- A number of routes operated by both single- and double-deckers
- Many routes interworking with each other, sometimes in unpredictable fashion

Any other examples?

 

[Deerfold]

My local company is Bluestar, and it's of note that, particularly since the end of First in Southampton, they have distinctly "interesting" workings from a "variety" perspective.

What I mean by that is:

- A wide variety of vehicles, of varying ages
- A number of routes operated by both single- and double-deckers
- Many routes interworking with each other, sometimes in unpredictable fashion

Any other examples?

Transdev Keighley & Burnley run 3 routes past my house.

62 Keighley to Ilkley - this is usually run with a single decker, but sometimes, especially in summer, double deckers run. 1 bus in 4 interworks with other routes so runs with a midibus (though this is about to change). Some evening journeys have a midibus, too. To my knowledge the 62 interworks with the 64 Ilkley - Skipton, 72 Skipton to Grassington and 67 Keighley to Bradford.
66 Keighley to Skipton - this is usually run with dedicated double deckers, but sometimes sees single deckers. This route does not interwork.
M4 Keighley to Burnley- this is usually run with midibuses, but is occasionally run with double deckers. This interworks with the M-series of routes around Burnley.

 

[WM Bus]

My local company is Bluestar, and it's of note that, particularly since the end of First in Southampton, they have distinctly "interesting" workings from a "variety" perspective.

What I mean by that is:

- A wide variety of vehicles, of varying ages
- A number of routes operated by both single- and double-deckers
- Many routes interworking with each other, sometimes in unpredictable fashion

Any other examples?

NX west midlands and diamond the first 2 can apply to.
NXWM have a a fleet of varied age from 03 plate tridents/gemini to 72 plate BYD electrics. As well as 4125 and 4393 still in use as well
The diamond 16A regularly has Streetdecks, Streetlites, pulsars and on the odd occassion i've seen a solo twice a mellor on it to.

 

[EnviroExplorer]

My local company is Bluestar, and it's of note that, particularly since the end of First in Southampton, they have distinctly "interesting" workings from a "variety" perspective.

What I mean by that is:

- A wide variety of vehicles, of varying ages
- A number of routes operated by both single- and double-deckers
- Many routes interworking with each other, sometimes in unpredictable fashion

Any other examples?

Midland Classic was a prime example of this a few years back, today under Diamond operation the fleet isn’t quite as varied with some of the oddballs withdrawn, but there is still a lot of inter working between routes. All of which can be viewed on bustimes of course.

Vehicle types include Scania/Wrights, rare Scania/Irizar i3, Optare MetroCity and Versa, Enviro 200s and 400s, Scania OmniCities and now departed DAF/Wrights and Volvo/Plaxton deckers replaced by Wright Streetdecks from Manchester and Volvo/Wrights from Yellow Buses. All of these vehicle types could be seen across the network with a few exceptions.

Route 8 Burton Hospital to Swadlincote is largely allocated E200s or Optares only and does not interwork during the daytime.
Route 9 Burton Hospital to East Mids Airpoet is largely allocated Optares or Scania/Irizars and also sees little interworking.

For example route 401 Burton to Uttoxeter was operated with the following throughout Thursday 14th March.
Deckers - 1 Volvo/Wrights, 2 E400s, 1 Streetdeck
Singles - 1 Scania/Wright, 4 E200s, 1 MetroCity, 3 Scania/Irizar

And the following on Friday 15th March
Deckers - 1 Scania, 2 E400s
Singles - 2 Scania/Wright, 5 E200s, 1 MetroCity, 1 Scania/Irizar

 

[43055]

Midland Classic was a prime example of this a few years back, today under Diamond operation the fleet isn’t quite as varied with some of the oddballs withdrawn, but there is still a lot of inter working between routes. All of which can be viewed on bustimes of course.

Vehicle types include Scania/Wrights, rare Scania/Irizar i3, Optare MetroCity and Versa, Enviro 200s and 400s, Scania OmniCities and now departed DAF/Wrights and Volvo/Plaxton deckers replaced by Wright Streetdecks from Manchester and Volvo/Wrights from Yellow Buses. All of these vehicle types could be seen across the network with a few exceptions.

Route 8 Burton Hospital to Swadlincote is largely allocated E200s or Optares only and does not interwork during the daytime.
Route 9 Burton Hospital to East Mids Airpoet is largely allocated Optares or Scania/Irizars and also sees little interworking.

For example route 401 Burton to Uttoxeter was operated with the following throughout Thursday 14th March.
Deckers - 1 Volvo/Wrights, 2 E400s, 1 Streetdeck
Singles - 1 Scania/Wright, 4 E200s, 1 MetroCity, 3 Scania/Irizar

And the following on Friday 15th March
Deckers - 1 Scania, 2 E400s
Singles - 2 Scania/Wright, 5 E200s, 1 MetroCity, 1 Scania/Irizar

Midland Classic/Diamond I do find interesting with all the interworking and varied vehicle use. At the other end of the scale the 70/70A that I see most days is normally always E200 31432.

Whilst trentbarton is not as varied due to the branded routes, one that I have noticed is that on Sundays the V3 working that does not go into the evening then moves over to the villager from the 2115 from Derby meaning after this time only unbranded vehicles are allocated to the route.

 

[820KDV]

It all comes down to efficient scheduling, of both buses and drivers. I remember having the discussion when my bosses wanted to have route branding which went along the lines of "if you really believe branding can pay for 6 extra buses (our fleet size was about 160) and more driver hours, then I'm all for it. But of you want to do it at no cost you'll have to accept branded buses on the wrong routes". Of course some routes lent themselves to self-contained workings, either because the timetables worked that way, or the vehicle type dictated it (the open top tour buses as an example), but there were always the leftovers which didn't fit neat cycles, even when a cycle could encompass several routes and last for many hours.

Driver preference can also play a part, even back in the days when there were good numbers available it was a case of a happy driver helps make a happy passenger. I can think of one city minibus operation where, over time, as running times changed the scheduler worked it so the same bus and driver stayed on the same route trip after trip as there had been comments about winding blinds (yes, it was that long ago) several times every hour. They worked happily like that for a few years then the request came for variety, so as running times evolved to cope with traffic so cycles of different routes were introduced.

I can think of an out-station which had important peak hour work, but little to do during the day. So, they would do the refuellers for other out-stations, but when we won some one-day-a-week shoppers contracts this small team of 4 drivers were the ideal rota to pick that work.

More recently, I recall during the ZERA2 process one operator saying that to make the duties work they mixed the country route we were looking at with town work and used a combined total off, I think, 20 buses. They said that they could self-cycle the country route with 11 buses, but at the cost drivers having to change buses every time they got back "home". As an aside the 11 "pure" workings would, they thought, need to be 14 if electric buses were used given the route ran from about 4 in the morning until a bit after midnight.

As a former scheduler I do find the data available from the bustimes website extremely interesting, especially for our local family run bus company who are very inventive with their "graph lines".

 

[Whisky Papa]

Although it would probably not have been obvious to the travelling public, in pre-deregulation days Greater Manchester Transport's Stockport garage had a practice of random interworking between all the routes that terminated in the town's bus station. It gave a great deal of flexibility in getting portions of work the right length for what were then quite tightly constrained duty lengths. With a combination of longer interurban or semi-rural routes and shorter routes serving the towns estates, it also made the drivers' days hopefully a little more interesting rather than shuttling up the same route all day.

Elsewhere in Greater Manchester, at that time buses tended to stay largely on the same route or group of routes all day. One epic interworking pattern was put in place at Princess Road garage, where the 99/108/9 group from Sale, Timperley and Wythenshawe Hospital which passed the garage were linked at Manchester Piccadilly with the 266 to Lostock via Stretford Arndale and the new 260 to Sale via Ashton-on-Mersey. Upon reaching Sale, the 260 was then linked with the 276/7 to Altrincham, again via Ashton-on-Mersey. However, Altrincham garage also had a share on the 260 and 276/7, so sometimes the pattern was broken at Piccadilly as the Altrincham vehicles arrived and returned as 260s. This produced some very long portions of work to work the duty schedules around, although the 266 could also be relieved at Old Trafford, which helped a bit! Generally it seemed quite popular with the staff as the shift went quickly with little repetition.

 

[mangad]

Although it would probably not have been obvious to the travelling public, in pre-deregulation days Greater Manchester Transport's Stockport garage had a practice of random interworking between all the routes that terminated in the town's bus station. It gave a great deal of flexibility in getting portions of work the right length for what were then quite tightly constrained duty lengths. With a combination of longer interurban or semi-rural routes and shorter routes serving the towns estates, it also made the drivers' days hopefully a little more interesting rather than shuttling up the same route all day.

This still happens out of Stockport depot.

Just clicked on a random vehicle that's on the 314 as I type, in bustimes.org.uk. So far today that vehicle's been on the 23, 384, 374, and the 191. Later it's due to go on to the 313, 378, 358, and end the day on back on the 374 and then the 313.

 

[nw1]

Although it would probably not have been obvious to the travelling public, in pre-deregulation days Greater Manchester Transport's Stockport garage had a practice of random interworking between all the routes that terminated in the town's bus station. It gave a great deal of flexibility in getting portions of work the right length for what were then quite tightly constrained duty lengths. With a combination of longer interurban or semi-rural routes and shorter routes serving the towns estates, it also made the drivers' days hopefully a little more interesting rather than shuttling up the same route all day.

Not quite the same scale, but it reminds me of the practice of Alder Valley's Guildford depot in the mid-80s. There seemed to be little in the way of consistent interworking patterns, it seemed very "random" (though planned of course).

 

[RELL6L]

I think you would have to go a long way to beat Go Cornwall for complex inter-workings. While some routes are relatively self-contained others look incredibly complex. The 50 - Truro to St Mawes - you would expect to be a relative backwater with small buses, but it is largely run by double deckers, these interwork with the 56, 85, 93 and other routes around mid Cornwall. For example the first arrival in Truro from St Mawes then runs empty to Padstow for a 56, then runs on the 92, 21 and 26. Quite a lot interwork with school and college workings too. I am sure this leads to lots of unlikely routes having some double deck workings.

 

[nw1]

I think you would have to go a long way to beat Go Cornwall for complex inter-workings. While some routes are relatively self-contained others look incredibly complex. The 50 - Truro to St Mawes - you would expect to be a relative backwater with small buses, but it is largely run by double deckers, these interwork with the 56, 85, 93 and other routes around mid Cornwall. For example the first arrival in Truro from St Mawes then runs empty to Padstow for a 56, then runs on the 92, 21 and 26. Quite a lot interwork with school and college workings too. I am sure this leads to lots of unlikely routes having some double deck workings.

Interesting - for one thing I never knew Go-Ahead had a significant presence in Cornwall. Thought it was solid First territory.

Of course I was last in Cornwall in 1996, so....

 

[JD2168]

When First operated out of Midland Road at Rotherham everything daytime except for the X78 inter worked with each other during the day with some rather complex running boards in action.

Today in Sheffield apart from X1/X10, X5, X78, 120 pretty much every other First bus route gets doubles & singles mixed. The deckers apart from the Enviro 400’s which are generally on 120 & the 4 deckers branded for 20 are mixed in a large pool & appear on each route.

Some individual lards inter work throughout the day, one board does a 779, 41 for a number of trips, 718 then a round trip on 75.

In Doncaster most inter work apart from X78.

 

[py_megapixel]

This still happens out of Stockport depot.

Just clicked on a random vehicle that's on the 314 as I type, in bustimes.org.uk. So far today that vehicle's been on the 23, 384, 374, and the 191. Later it's due to go on to the 313, 378, 358, and end the day on back on the 374 and then the 313.

Indeed, it's quite common. At the old bus station it did have the slightly annoying consequence of not knowing which stop you would arrive at because the buses had to arrive in the right place for the route they were departing rather than arriving on. No idea how much of an issue that is with the new one.

Today in Sheffield apart from X1/X10, X5, X78, 120 pretty much every other First bus route gets doubles & singles mixed. The deckers apart from the Enviro 400’s which are generally on 120 & the 4 deckers branded for 20 are mixed in a large pool & appear on each route.

Singles do appear on the 120 as well - albeit sporadically, so I assume that's more of an ad-hoc arrangement when not enough deckers are available.

 

[nw1]

Thanks for the replies so far. A few examples from Bluestar, as I started the thread.

The Totton side in particular seems to have somewhat unpredictable interworking. There are some common patterns, e.g. the 11 and 12 interworking, and the 8 interworking with one of the two 4s per hour, but there are plenty of exceptions. The 9 is often self-contained but in some half-hours interworks with other Totton routes. All of the Totton routes, except the 17 (double-decker only) appear to be a mixture of single- and double-deckers.

The 4 is probably the most "random" as it interworks with a range of different routes as well as occasionally working out again as a 4, is operated by both single- and double-deckers, and for extra points it gets some Empress Road as well as Totton workings. Wide range of vehicles too.

The Empress Road side has more in the way of self-contained routes, plus the 10, 13 and 14 which generally interwork on a particular pattern (4 workings do 10-14-13-10-repeat while 3 do the 13 and 14 alternately). However from around 1pm the pattern is disrupted and becomes more "random". Later in the afternoon some interworking of this group of routes with the 20 occurs, which means single-deckers appearing on some 20 journeys and double-deckers on some 13 and 14 journeys.

There is also occasional interworking between the 3 and 16.

That said, Bluestar seem to change, or at least tweak, their workings around 6 times a year, after every school holiday and half-term - so some details may change again after the Easter holidays.

Singles do appear on the 120 as well - albeit sporadically, so I assume that's more of an ad-hoc arrangement when not enough deckers are available.

There doesn't seem to be a way of finding out what type of vehicle is allocated to a particular working (unless it's in open data?) so often it's a case of just inferring it from bustimes based on what it is the majority of the time.

That said there is one Bluestar working (working S25, involving the 20, 14, 15 and 16) which I can't figure out as it seems to be almost 50:50. For example, last week, double-deck Mon-Wed and single-deck Thurs-Fri. Other weeks have a similar mix.

253 - HF18 CJX

ADL Enviro200 MMC

bustimes.org

 

[Whisky Papa]

This still happens out of Stockport depot.

Just clicked on a random vehicle that's on the 314 as I type, in bustimes.org.uk. So far today that vehicle's been on the 23, 384, 374, and the 191. Later it's due to go on to the 313, 378, 358, and end the day on back on the 374 and then the 313.

That's interesting - I gathered at the time that the practice largely disappeared at Stockport with deregulation, to allow for quicker schedule changes as competition demanded. Some town routes got converted to minibus operation as well, particularly in response to Bee Line Buzz competion. I'm not 100% certain now, but I think there may still be a link with some of the schedules staff that were there with me back in the mid 1980s.

Seeing as Bee Line Buzzy has come up, they may have been the least interesting bus company working wise, with all boards and drivers staying on a single route (or in a couple of cases, linked routes) all the time. At least at their Stockport garage there was a mix of vehicles possible with the Dodges alongside the Sherpas, but at Roundthorn it was nothing but Sherpas.

 

[joieman]

Midland Classic was a prime example of this a few years back, today under Diamond operation the fleet isn’t quite as varied with some of the oddballs withdrawn, but there is still a lot of inter working between routes. All of which can be viewed on bustimes of course.

Vehicle types include Scania/Wrights, rare Scania/Irizar i3, Optare MetroCity and Versa, Enviro 200s and 400s, Scania OmniCities and now departed DAF/Wrights and Volvo/Plaxton deckers replaced by Wright Streetdecks from Manchester and Volvo/Wrights from Yellow Buses. All of these vehicle types could be seen across the network with a few exceptions.

Route 8 Burton Hospital to Swadlincote is largely allocated E200s or Optares only and does not interwork during the daytime.
Route 9 Burton Hospital to East Mids Airpoet is largely allocated Optares or Scania/Irizars and also sees little interworking.

For example route 401 Burton to Uttoxeter was operated with the following throughout Thursday 14th March.
Deckers - 1 Volvo/Wrights, 2 E400s, 1 Streetdeck
Singles - 1 Scania/Wright, 4 E200s, 1 MetroCity, 3 Scania/Irizar

And the following on Friday 15th March
Deckers - 1 Scania, 2 E400s
Singles - 2 Scania/Wright, 5 E200s, 1 MetroCity, 1 Scania/Irizar

The 129 interworks with the 19: normally the 06:50 19 from Burton-upon-Trent will move over to the 129 for the 14:03 to Loughborough, replacing the bus that runs on the 129 in the mornings before taking up the 19 from 14:00 onwards. The 19 also interworks with the 18. The 129 usually seems to use Enviro200s, although the double-doored ones are a rarity, as well as Optares, especially 30991/2.

 

[Statto]

Arriva Merseyside 407 West Kirby - Liverpool is one of my local routes, the 407 interworks with the 471 / 472 Liverpool - Heswall, one bus then goes onto 423 Liverpool - Seacombe it's always the 18.03, 423 from Liverpool to Seacombe.

A couple of other routes from Arriva Merseyside Birkenhead depot interwork too, 437 West Kirby - Liverpool interworks with 432 / 433 Liverpool - New Brighton & some 410 New Brighton - Clatterbridge interwork with the 411 New Brighton - Birkenhead Circular