'Moving Platforms' Concept

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TrainBoy98

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Hi, just read about moving platforms in a magazine (not sure which one!) and wondered whether anyone knew anything about it? Also, what are peoples thoughts on it?
 
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gordonthemoron

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ıs this the idea to make express trains non-stop and have shuttle services transfer passengers aboard whilst the trains are moving?
 

whhistle

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Sounds so but you'd need a good few miles for it to work and so much technology involved.
To be honest, it isn't going to work. They'll be better ways to allow people to board trains by the time this has any sort of chance of being realistically implemented to the railways.
 
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Interesting concept.
I would quickly jump across!
I don't even like standing by the couplings, or I stand forward of the coupling!
(I have seen a buckeye coupling fail! (Devon))
Probably easier to use slip coaches? (The very last slip was in 1960 WR)
 

D841 Roebuck

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Reminds me strangely of the concept of rolling roads/road cities featured in R A Heinlein's science fiction of the 1950s/60s...
 

NY Yankee

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There is a video of it here.

It is hugely impractical of course. The first late train and the entire system falls to pieces.

Agreed. I get the concept-it's basically like how people transfer from the Central line to a long distance line like the Metropolitan or Piccadilly. I don't see any advantage that this idea will provide. The National Rail system would have to be integrated with the Tube (or other metro systems) and the schedules would have to be coordinated. All this will do is cause confusion and waste pounds.
 

Cherry_Picker

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It couldnt happen here. To work it would have to be built from scratch. It is a cool idea, but the pros (faster journey times) are cancelled out by a list of cons as long as your arm.
 

Jonny

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One major con that I can see is the need for synchronised braking - or a physical link strong enough to equalise braking forces - between both trains.

Nice idea though...
 

MattRobinson

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Maybe we could come up with a new idea for slip coaches? Say you're going London-Leeds calling at Peterborough, Newark, Doncaster, Wakefield and Leeds. You build powered slip coaches capable of coupling and uncoupling at speed. You attach a slip coach to the end of the train in London and have slips waiting at the calling points. People alighting at Peterborough move to sit in the slip coach just before Peterborough. Approaching Peterborough, the coach is slipped, as per a traditional slip coach. There is a duplicate slip coach in Peterborough with excellent acceleration and when the on train slip is in the platform, the slip from Peterborough is despatched to catch up with the train and then automatically couples when it catches up. The process is repeated. Therefore, the main train is effectively non-stop London-Leeds but people can alight/ board. Of course, this requires a very fast coach (faster than the whole train) with rapid acceleration; two trains to be in section at once; and replacement of the current stock (probably with a loco hauled train. And when you consider the time saving from not stopping, it's probably going to be outweighed by time running round anyway). So yes, there is an idea, but it's not very practical is it?
 

MCR247

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How could the slip coach be faster than the rest since all of the coaches would be slip coaches? As in, the whole formation would be of the same design...?
 

Tim R-T-C

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Slip coaches? People have enough trouble understanding which unit to sit in when the conductor announces a hundred times on a journey about a split, let alone trying to find the right coach on a train that breaks apart a dozen times on a journey.

To be honest, saving a few minutes on a journey is not going to be of any benefit to the travelling public - cost, reliability and seats are what they want and considering the complexity of such a system I think the first two are unlikely and the latter is hardly going to be improved with individual coaches for each station.
 

Wath Yard

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Priestmangoode, who have proposed this, are what are described by certain types as 'blue sky thinkers'. Check their proposals for the HS2 trains; very nice but won't happen in a million years.

However, beware: one thing they designed that did come to fruition was the Pendolino interior. :roll:
 

Bevan Price

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Maybe we could come up with a new idea for slip coaches? Say you're going London-Leeds calling at Peterborough, Newark, Doncaster, Wakefield and Leeds. You build powered slip coaches capable of coupling and uncoupling at speed. You attach a slip coach to the end of the train in London and have slips waiting at the calling points. People alighting at Peterborough move to sit in the slip coach just before Peterborough. Approaching Peterborough, the coach is slipped, as per a traditional slip coach.
And can you imagine the HSE comments might make about corridor connections with the slip coach ?
 

Nick W

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I fully believe we have the technology to achieve it. You'd need dead straight track and probably hydraulic braking actuators though, and it'd be pretty expensive!

Trouble is, there isn't a big market in reducing journey times.
 

150222

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Agreed. I get the concept-it's basically like how people transfer from the Central line to a long distance line like the Metropolitan or Piccadilly. I don't see any advantage that this idea will provide. The National Rail system would have to be integrated with the Tube (or other metro systems) and the schedules would have to be coordinated. All this will do is cause confusion and waste pounds.

I'm sorry, what?
 

DownSouth

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Maybe we could come up with a new idea for slip coaches? Say you're going London-Leeds calling at Peterborough, Newark, Doncaster, Wakefield and Leeds. You build powered slip coaches capable of coupling and uncoupling at speed. You attach a slip coach to the end of the train in London and have slips waiting at the calling points. People alighting at Peterborough move to sit in the slip coach just before Peterborough. Approaching Peterborough, the coach is slipped, as per a traditional slip coach. There is a duplicate slip coach in Peterborough with excellent acceleration and when the on train slip is in the platform, the slip from Peterborough is despatched to catch up with the train and then automatically couples when it catches up. The process is repeated. Therefore, the main train is effectively non-stop London-Leeds but people can alight/ board.
Why not just add the capability for improved acceleration to the whole train? That would allow it to make the stop in the same time as it would take for it to drop the slip coach and lose time running slow enough for the pickup coach to catch up.

The question of how to control the two segments and which operating rules would require updating would be easily solved if there was enough will to find a way. Some evolution of the existing Locotrol technology (which already allows distributed power units to independently vary power settings to control a long train on changing gradients) would do the trick.

What will kill the idea is not the lack of necessary technology but the fact that it would require a stupidly high amount of engineering investment for no genuine benefit. Far better to invest in better automated control systems that would allow for capacity improvements.
 

Clip

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For the money it would probably cost we could build a direct HS line from London to Edinburgh from scratch. And one of its own to Glasgow. On top of the aalready proposed one to Brum
 
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however, you wouldn't be able to use slıp coaches wıth MUs

MUs could have an advantage. Slip a 1 - 3 car MU with a driver. Probably safer than a slip coach? No pilot engine needed.
Could continue journey as a stopper, or on a branch line.

A possibility? Express train (MU's) off station A at 10.00.
Main train slips a MU at a suitable point 1 - 10 miles before station A.
It arrives at A around 10.05. (This unit could run the next service 20 minutes later as below)
A MU (with passengers) leaves station A at 09.55, gets up to speed and is joined by the main train around 10.05. This would involve some clever speed control technology, otherwise it could be a bit hairy! :roll:
 

Nick W

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I don't mind the idea of uncoupling happening about 30mph, after the rear unit has passed has the 2nd last signal before the platform, and then the rear unit entering the platform with a "call-on". I think it's a good, safe idea.

I'd be a little nervous about a unit running through lots of signals with permissive working at 100mph + with no idea about where the unit in front was or what speed it was going, unless it was an adaptive moving block system.
 

DownSouth

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I'd be a little nervous about a unit running through lots of signals with permissive working at 100mph + with no idea about where the unit in front was or what speed it was going, unless it was an adaptive moving block system.
If it were to be done, a purpose-designed datalink system would be used between the train portions so there would be a very accurate idea of where both units were at any one time. The route's traffic control system (lineside signals being a thing of the past) would be set up to treat the starting and continuing portions as being one train until they successfully couple. As I said above, any technology needed for the on-board parts could start as an evolution of the tried and true Locotrol technology that is currently used all over the world.

The more I think about, the more I'm convinced that all it would need to happen is enough will to put the necessary funds in place and see the project through to full implementation. The technology and operating procedures needed to make it happen would easily come as evolutions of current technology, all of which exists but comes from non-British sources.

That being said, I still think the money spent on R&D and implementation of such a scheme would still be better spent on further electrification, replacing line side signals with electronic traffic control, and developing reliable connections. Why go with something unproven when all it would take for conventional solutions already proven overseas to work is convincing the British that connections are a good thing?
 

MattRobinson

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MUs could have an advantage. Slip a 1 - 3 car MU with a driver. Probably safer than a slip coach? No pilot engine needed.
Could continue journey as a stopper, or on a branch line.

A possibility? Express train (MU's) off station A at 10.00.
Main train slips a MU at a suitable point 1 - 10 miles before station A.
It arrives at A around 10.05. (This unit could run the next service 20 minutes later as below)
A MU (with passengers) leaves station A at 09.55, gets up to speed and is joined by the main train around 10.05. This would involve some clever speed control technology, otherwise it could be a bit hairy! :roll:

That was basically what I suggested a couple of posts ago!
 

Tramfan

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Slip coaches? People have enough trouble understanding which unit to sit in when the conductor announces a hundred times on a journey about a split, let alone trying to find the right coach on a train that breaks apart a dozen times on a journey.

This was the first thing that came to my mind as well. I think the concept of slip coaches would just blow the minds of some of the public.
 
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