Mudslide on Modane route

[peteb]

What, again? SNCF website/app advises line to Modane from Chambéry will be closed for a few days due to a mudslide. The link to further info. didn't work for me. Anyone got any further info/advice?

 

[rvdborgt]

I don't see a further link on the SNCF website. On https://www.sncf-connect.com/trafficInfo SNCF say trains are expected to run again on Saturday morning. There are no replacement buses.
In Paris, SNCF staff are reportedly of no help. They don't even advise alternative routes, let alone rebook people for such routes.

 

[nwales58]

On https://www.sncf-connect.com/trafficInfo SNCF say trains are expected to run again on Saturday morning. There are no replacement buses..

Slightly more detail now, not good news: initial inspection complete, work in progress for partial re-opening Saturday morning, depending on weather conditions, full re-opening probably mid-July.

@peteb where are you now, where do you want to get to, how urgently and are you on a normal ticket or Interrail pass?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I don't see a further link on the SNCF website. On https://www.sncf-connect.com/trafficInfo SNCF say trains are expected to run again on Saturday morning. There are no replacement buses.
In Paris, SNCF staff are reportedly of no help. They don't even advise alternative routes, let alone rebook people for such routes.

Not helped by the engineering closure of the Domodossola-Milan route this summer (8 June-27 July and 31 August-12 September).
Making the Gotthard route the only reasonable alternative from Paris.

 

[nwales58]

If trying to reach upper Maurienne valley, get to Chambéry however (many TGV will be full as people are heading to the Alps). TER running as far as Saint Jean de M.

If France-Italy I’d go via Switzerland. LGV sud-est affected by wild fires south of Valence according to news.

If in a hurry, fly.

 

[peteb]

Slightly more detail now, not good news: initial inspection complete, work in progress for partial re-opening Saturday morning, depending on weather conditions, full re-opening probably mid-July.

@peteb where are you now, where do you want to get to, how urgently and are you on a normal ticket or Interrail pass?

Hi, I'm not traveling that route just yet so merely confused as to what's happening given it was closed for ages until very recently. Mind you if I am going into Italy in the next month I think I'll book via Zurich or Ventimiglia!

 

[rvdborgt]

Trenitalia are running replacement buses from tomorrow:

info_trafic

Consultez l'état du trafic en temps réel de nos trains Frecciarossa. Retrouvez toute l'info sur le trafic pour bien préparer votre voyage.

www.trenitalia.com

 

[HS2isgood]

There's a diversionary route for passengers via Ventimiglia, but it's slow and a double change...

 

[agreeable]

Hi I am in the same boat. TGV ticket (non interrail) tomorrow 1610 to Paris but cancelled.

No sign of replacement buses, and I was put on hold on SNCF hotline for 1hr before being cut off. What are my options if I don't want to fork out extra? Can I use CIV protection to self reroute via Zurich/Frankfurt?

 

[rvdborgt]

Hi I am in the same boat. TGV ticket (non interrail) tomorrow 1610 to Paris but cancelled.

No sign of replacement buses, and I was put on hold on SNCF hotline for 1hr before being cut off. What are my options if I don't want to fork out extra? Can I use CIV protection to self reroute via Zurich/Frankfurt?

They have to offer the mandatory 3-fold choice:
1. Complete refund.
2. Travel with the next connection without extra costs.
3. Travel on a later date of your choice.
(See Regulation 2021/782 article 18.)

Option 2 means that, if they can't offer anything themselves, then they have to allow you to travel with other operators. If they don't like that, then they'd have to pay your accommodation until you can travel with them (limited to 3 nights in case of force majeure), see article 20.

I'd say call them again tomorrow at 8 CET, when their phone line opens.
For option 2 there are several possibilities, such as:
1. Via Geneva or Lausanne, although there is currently a bus replacement Milan-Domodossola.
2. Via Zurich/Luzern-Basel(-Strasbourg)
3. With Trenitalia (they have a bus replacement!), if they can be booked.

I think I'd rather travel via Switzerland without bus replacement.
Self-rerouting via Frankfurt is a bit of a detour and won't be faster.
If SNCF refuse to do anything (which would be an infraction), then make a preferred plan for yourself, book the tickets and claim refunds afterwards. You can do that here. If they refuse, then there are multiple possibilities for further steps. The operator never has the final say.

 

[agreeable]

They have to offer the mandatory 3-fold choice:
1. Complete refund.
2. Travel with the next connection without extra costs.
3. Travel on a later date of your choice.
(See Regulation 2021/782 article 18.)

Option 2 means that, if they can't offer anything themselves, then they have to allow you to travel with other operators. If they don't like that, then they'd have to pay your accommodation until you can travel with them (limited to 3 nights in case of force majeure), see article 20.

I'd say call them again tomorrow at 8 CET, when their phone line opens.
For option 2 there are several possibilities, such as:
1. Via Geneva or Lausanne, although there is currently a bus replacement Milan-Domodossola.
2. Via Zurich/Luzern-Basel(-Strasbourg)
3. With Trenitalia (they have a bus replacement!), if they can be booked.

I think I'd rather travel via Switzerland without bus replacement.
Self-rerouting via Frankfurt is a bit of a detour and won't be faster.
If SNCF refuse to do anything (which would be an infraction), then make a preferred plan for yourself, book the tickets and claim refunds afterwards. You can do that here. If they refuse, then there are multiple possibilities for further steps. The operator never has the final say.

paragraph 10 states that the operator doesn't have to be compensate or reroute for force majure events though (or at least SNCF will try to weasel their way out of this)

A railway undertaking shall not be obliged to pay compensation if it can prove that the delay, missed connection or cancellation was caused directly by, or was inherently linked with:

(a) extraordinary circumstances not connected with the operation of the railway, such as extreme weather conditions, major natural disasters or major public health crises, which the railway undertaking, in spite of having taken the care required in the particular circumstances of the case, was unable to avoid and the consequences of which it was unable to prevent;

 

[30907]

paragraph 10 states that the operator doesn't have to be compensate or reroute for force majure events though (or at least SNCF will try to weasel their way out of this)

A railway undertaking shall not be obliged to pay compensation if it can prove that the delay, missed connection or cancellation was caused directly by, or was inherently linked with:

(a) extraordinary circumstances not connected with the operation of the railway, such as extreme weather conditions, major natural disasters or major public health crises, which the railway undertaking, in spite of having taken the care required in the particular circumstances of the case, was unable to avoid and the consequences of which it was unable to prevent;

Fairly certain SNCF took full advantage of this when the rockfall happened a coupe of years ago

 

[rvdborgt]

paragraph 10 states that the operator doesn't have to be compensate or reroute for force majure events though (or at least SNCF will try to weasel their way out of this)

A railway undertaking shall not be obliged to pay compensation if it can prove that the delay, missed connection or cancellation was caused directly by, or was inherently linked with:

(a) extraordinary circumstances not connected with the operation of the railway, such as extreme weather conditions, major natural disasters or major public health crises, which the railway undertaking, in spite of having taken the care required in the particular circumstances of the case, was unable to avoid and the consequences of which it was unable to prevent;

This is from article 19, and only applies to compensation for delay, which I didn't mention because indeed it would not apply here.
If you want to travel, then Rerouting (article 18) and Assistance (article 20) are always mandatory. There is no way out.

 

[agreeable]

This is from article 19, and only applies to compensation for delay, which I didn't mention because indeed it would not apply here.
Rerouting (article 18) and Assistance (article 20) are always mandatory. There is no way out.

If I can't reach SNCF tomorrow or I run out of IDD minutes, should I just head down to Porta Garibaldi at the departure time and wait for the 100 minutes to lapse or should I just start booking onward travel?

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

I'd be inclined to go Milan - Lugano - Basel and then the TGV Lyria at 1928 arriving Paris Lyon at 2242.

Saves faffing around with an EC reservation (and possible disappointment) if you go via Zürich or a dreaded RRB if you go via Simplon.

 

[rvdborgt]

If I can't reach SNCF tomorrow or I run out of IDD minutes, should I just head down to Porta Garibaldi at the departure time and wait for the 100 minutes to lapse or should I just start booking onward travel?

If you wait for the 100 minutes to pass after the 1610 departure, then you'll be stranded. If that's no problem, then by all means of course. SNCF will then also have to arrange or pay for your hotel.
Otherwise, if you have the time, go there earlier, to see what they are willing (or allowed) to do and if that's nothing useful, then travel via Lugano-Basel. There are various options there, also reservation-free until Basel or Strasbourg, with the hourly RE Milan-Lugano at xx:43.

 

[agreeable]

If you wait for the 100 minutes to pass after the 1610 departure, then you'll be stranded. If that's no problem, then by all means of course. SNCF will then also have to arrange or pay for your hotel.
Otherwise, if you have the time, go there earlier, to see what they are willing (or allowed) to do and if that's nothing useful, then travel via Lugano-Basel. There are various options there, also reservation-free until Basel or Strasbourg, with the hourly RE Milan-Lugano at xx:43.

But reservations don't really matter for me as in not interrailing so I will have to buy fresh tickets either way right? Or can I just hop on with my existing ticket? Won't I still need a reservation for the Lyria at Baseline?

 

[rvdborgt]

But reservations don't really matter for me as in not interrailing so I will have to buy fresh tickets either way right? Or can I just hop on with my existing ticket? Won't I still need a reservation for the Lyria at Baseline?

In an ideal world you'd be able to hop on your preferred alternative trains but in reality, they're partially run by other operators (Trenord or Trenitalia, SBB and SNCF instead of just SNCF) and some trains have mandatory reservations, so you need to be rebooked at least. If SNCF refuse to do that, then you'll have to buy completely new tickets and request reimbursement of those afterwards.
Reservations don't really matter as long as the trains that require them are not full.

 

[agreeable]

In an ideal world you'd be able to hop on your preferred alternative trains but in reality, they're partially run by other operators (Trenord or Trenitalia, SBB and SNCF instead of just SNCF) and some trains have mandatory reservations, so you need to be rebooked at least. If SNCF refuse to do that, then you'll have to buy completely new tickets and request reimbursement of those afterwards.
Reservations don't really matter as long as the trains that require them are not full.

Ok, I was just clarifying whether I will need to take a reservation-free route (via Lugano-Basel as suggested) or I can just book the EC via Zurich and then a Lyria train, which is timetabled to be faster.

This incident has shown me that for all of RDG's faults, it's at least able to handle disruption (and ticket acceptance) much more easily.

 

[AdamWW]

If you wait for the 100 minutes to pass after the 1610 departure, then you'll be stranded. If that's no problem, then by all means of course. SNCF will then also have to arrange or pay for your hotel.
Otherwise, if you have the time, go there earlier, to see what they are willing (or allowed) to do and if that's nothing useful, then travel via Lugano-Basel. There are various options there, also reservation-free until Basel or Strasbourg, with the hourly RE Milan-Lugano at xx:43.

Have I got this right?

Even if it's known in advance that there is no way a train will run, in order to have a legal right to claim back the costs of alternative transport a passenger has to wait 100 minutes after the originnal scheduled departure time to do so?

 

[agreeable]

Have I got this right?

Even if it's known in advance that there is no way a train will run, in order to have a legal right to claim back the costs of alternative transport a passenger has to wait 100 minutes after the originnal scheduled departure time to do so?

My interpretation of the law is that if the TOC doesn't offer you a satisfactory solution using your preferred option (of the 3 given options) or doesn't communicate with you at all, you are allowed to get to your destination through any other means possible after 100 minutes.

I've just gotten off the phone with SNCF and they only offered a refund, they said they cannot rebook through Switzerland as their booking system doesn't allow booking the EuroCity. She kept insisting on the refund option but I didn't take it as I was afraid that would mean waiving my right to compensation later on. She also offered rebooking to Friday but did not offer to help with accomodation, plus the line is supposedly blocked till Saturday anyway!

Does that mean I can just make the bookings myself (EC Zurich then Lyria Paris) and go now, then claim from them later on?

 

[rvdborgt]

I've just gotten off the phone with SNCF and they only offered a refund, they said they cannot rebook through Switzerland as their booking system doesn't allow booking the EuroCity. She kept insisting on the refund option but I didn't take it as I was afraid that would mean waiving my right to compensation later on. She also offered rebooking to Friday but did not offer to help with accomodation, plus the line is supposedly blocked till Saturday anyway!

Oh yes, I had forgotten that SNCF stopped selling (supposedly temporarily) all trains they're not involved in.

Does that mean I can just make the bookings myself (EC Zurich then Lyria Paris) and go now, then claim from them later on?

Since SNCF refused to help, that's what I'd do.

 

[AdamWW]

My interpretation of the law is that if the TOC doesn't offer you a satisfactory solution using your preferred option (of the 3 given options) or doesn't communicate with you at all, you are allowed to get to your destination through any other means possible after 100 minutes.

Seems a bit unreasonable if it's known in advance that the train won't run.

Particularly if as below the operator has already made it clear that they have no intention of fulfilling their legal obligations.

I've just gotten off the phone with SNCF and they only offered a refund, they said they cannot rebook through Switzerland as their booking system doesn't allow booking the EuroCity.

This seems a bit disingenuous. Just because they can't book a train using their own internal system doesn't mean they can't purchase tickets on behalf of one of their passengers by other means.

Do they only provide hotel accommodation if it can be booked through their train booking system?

This, and other simliar threads, are making me rather wary of the idea of using rail travel across Europe instead of flying. Which is a bit of a shame.

 

[mad_rich]

This, and other simliar threads, are making me rather wary of the idea of using rail travel across Europe instead of flying. Which is a bit of a shame.

Don't worry, the airlines will also lie to you!

 

[AdamWW]

Don't worry, the airlines will also lie to you!

Oh I know.

And I presume that's why the railway companies aren't concerned about reputational damage by (mis)treating their "customers" the way they do.

But there are generally more links in the chain to go wrong if heading overland to somewhere in Europe rather than flying.

 

[bnc2018]

I just did Turin - Paris last week - good to know I did it in the two month window it was actually running

 

[agreeable]

Ok after going through all my options I've decided to go via Chiasso, Zurich/Basel and Offenburg. It's really indirect but it's the lowest cost option (about €200), given it might be a while before I can get reimbursement, if SNCF doesn't drag it out further.

 

[Porty]

Don't worry, the airlines will also lie to you!

Note the hundreds of flights cancelled in the next 48 hours due to French Air traffic control.
Not just to and from France but also flights flying through French airspace - which for the UK is a lot of destinations. Portugal and Spain badly affected.

 

[dana_nitsa]

Passenger trains resume tomorrow: https://www.lemonde.fr/economie/art...paris-et-milan-va-reprendre_6618157_3234.html

Freight trains will resume gradually over next week.

 

[urbophile]

If you wait for the 100 minutes to pass after the 1610 departure, then you'll be stranded. If that's no problem, then by all means of course. SNCF will then also have to arrange or pay for your hotel.
Otherwise, if you have the time, go there earlier, to see what they are willing (or allowed) to do and if that's nothing useful, then travel via Lugano-Basel. There are various options there, also reservation-free until Basel or Strasbourg, with the hourly RE Milan-Lugano at xx:43.

Lugano - Basel is a good route. I did it at short notice after the landslip five (? or so) years ago. It didn't take much longer than the direct TGV would have done, if I recall correctly.