My idea for a South East London Tram

[Eddd]

Orbital travel is pretty difficult in South East London. Compare the North and South Circular roads to get an idea of how much suppressed demand there might be. There is also a lot of travel between this part of London and Kent, which is fine by public transport if you're on a convenient rail line but awkward if not. A tram could address these problems by linking town centres in the area and providing interchanges with the mainline network.

My proposal is for a tram between Thamesmead and Bromley via Woolwich and Eltham.

The scheme could be supported by and service new residential developments. Thamesmead has always been poor for public transport and it is a major development area. The MoD is also planning to close Woolwich Barracks. I personally don't support that, but if it does happen it will create an enormous area for redevelopment that is also poorly served by public transport.

The full set of crayons can be seen here:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1sReWuRODThsQ61ckNZCRqb4Dtk8Zmd-7&usp=sharing

There is a mix of on-street and off-street running. Off-street running includes replacement of the Bromley North Branch, one or two freight tracks in Grove Park sidings, the margins of Woolwich Common and space by the main roads through Thamesmead.

I think some of the route would have been used by the Greenwich Waterfront Transit. I'm not sure if other aspects have appeared previously.

Grove Park Station is a challenge and two options are shown. I expect the greatest political opposition would arise from lost of on-street parking in Eltham.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

I think it looks pretty decent, but perhaps a branch to North Greenwich might be useful?

 

[Eddd]

I think it looks pretty decent, but perhaps a branch to North Greenwich might be useful?

I think there would certainly be demand for it. The 472 bus from Thamesmead to North Greenwich was first envisaged as a tram and it's very busy (in normal times). A tram could resurrect the original route along the Woolwich Road or it could branch from Eltham as an elevated line above the A2.

The Greenwich Peninsula would be a useful destination in its own right, but could the Jubilee Line handle the extra interchange traffic from a tram? Most JL destintions would be served by other interchanges on the proposed tram route anyway (Southeastern, DLR, Crossrail, Thameslink) but many people would use the JL in preference if it was convenient, as they do already.

 

[BayPaul]

Would it make sense to extend it to Beckenham Junction or Elmers End and link it to the Croydon system? Although it would be too far for long through journeys from Thamesmead to Wimbledon, journeys like Eltham to Croydon could be useful, and a single network might make things like depots, rolling stock and staffing easier, especially initially.

 

[Eddd]

Would it make sense to extend it to Beckenham Junction or Elmers End and link it to the Croydon system? Although it would be too far for long through journeys from Thamesmead to Wimbledon, journeys like Eltham to Croydon could be useful, and a single network might make things like depots, rolling stock and staffing easier, especially initially.

Yeah this would be a useful addition for the reasons you give.
The problem was I couldn't see an obvious alignment between Beckenham Junction and Bromley and it would be probably be quicker to change on and off the train to get between the routes. Maybe a train-tram could do it if that ever becomes an off-the-shelf soltuion.

Has there ever been a proposal for Tramlink to reach Bromley, does anyone know?

 

[BayPaul]

Yeah this would be a useful addition for the reasons you give.
The problem was I couldn't see an obvious alignment between Beckenham Junction and Bromley and it would be probably be quicker to change on and off the train to get between the routes. Maybe a train-tram could do it if that ever becomes an off-the-shelf soltuion.

Has there ever been a proposal for Tramlink to reach Bromley, does anyone know?

I was thinking go from Bromley town centre (not Bromley South) down Church Road, Glassmill Lane, Queensmead road and station road around the open space, calling at Shortlands Station, then either an extra track alongside the railway alignment to Beckenham Junction, or along Abermarle Street. I don't know the area at all, so no doubt there would be issues. The more off-street alignment would be better, but looks complex getting across the railway lines at Shortlands, and getting to the West side of Beckenham Junction station. The Abermarle alignment might be easier. Elmers End would probably be better to avoid the single track into Beckenham, but it looks more complex.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

Admittedly I'd work on the basis of the existing Elmers End terminus as a key connective point.

I'd go from Crystal Palace, Anerley, Birkbeck and Elmers End along the main road and then Eden Park, across Park Langley and along to Westmoreland Road and Bromley South. Up to Bromley North, to Grove Park. Doubt you'd ever get any support for using the South Circular and with freight down you can probably warrant using some land round the back of Hither Green Down Reception and then terminating at Hither Green due the large numbers of trains available there.

As for the Thamesmead side, I'd say Bexley Council are preferable to an extension of the DLR from Gallions Reach across to Thamesmead and Belvedere and the possibility of a tram from Bexleyheath via Northumberland Heath to Erith and Abbey Wood.

 

[30907]

I was thinking go from Bromley town centre (not Bromley South) down Church Road, Glassmill Lane, Queensmead road and station road around the open space, calling at Shortlands Station, then either an extra track alongside the railway alignment to Beckenham Junction, or along Abermarle Road Street. I don't know the area at all, so no doubt there would be issues.

Indeed - the biggest being the gradient of Glassmill Lane, which I am sure is much steeper than Norfolk Park bank on the Sheffield network, then Station Road is rather narrow... IMO you need to go down to Bromley South anyway for connectivity, so it's academic. I think I would then go with 4-SUB 4732 for a route towards Elmers End, mainly because the roads are reasonably wide.

 

[Eddd]

Doubt you'd ever get any support for using the South Circular

Two points here: the first is that the South Circular isn't such a major artery as the North Circular, it's more like just another road among several alternatives. But its named status might mean that it's more acceptable to mess around with it - removing on-street parking for example.
I also think a tram could be added without that much impact on traffic capacity. There's enough space keep all the existing entry lanes to junctions, and the A20 and possibly other roundabouts could be crossed with a viaduct.

possibility of a tram from Bexleyheath via Northumberland Heath to Erith and Abbey Wood

I guess boroughs want to promote their own town centres. In my route, Greenwich and Bromely boroughs are winners, while Bexley and Lewisham see the tram taking their residents' business elsewhere. I think there's a good case for something in Bexley too seeing how sparse public transport is there.

terminating at Hither Green

Yeah this is an an option. I thought about going on to Lewisham too but is there much point in duplicating the rail route?