My idea to reopen the line to Grassington (Yorkshire Dales)

[Dave49]

Grassington nearest station was Threshfield just down the road, well with all the roads getting clogged up with traffic it's about time the Yorkshire Dales National Park stepped in and said we want a railway to free the Dales of cars and today the only transport is car Bus or cycle, come on bring trains towards Grassington so passengers can relax in the Yorkshire Dales without stress, there is a busy single line from Skipton to a quarry just south of Grassington with about 6 to 8 freight a day and with modern signalling and loops on this line it would benefit the area.

 

[Ploughman]

Slight problem with that.
The majority of the line from Embsay Jcn to the Quarry was built as a single line.
There is not much free space either side to enable any double track without major work widening embankments or cuttings and installing a number of bridges both over and under.

 

[30907]

Sadly but realistically, a railway from Skipton to a mile short of Grassington, even if the practicalities could be solved, is going to have limited impact on the Dales roads.
It would need to be combined with an improved onward Dalesbus service (it's currently run by local volunteers except Sundays), and I would have thought that an improved bus service would be a more cost effective use of the subsidy we would be talking about.

 

[B&I]

In some US national parks, cars are banned from internal roads, and visitors have to use shuttle buses. Perhaps we should habe something similar in our national parks, albeit residents would still have to be allowed to drive round them as they are generally still working countryside

 

[Dave49]

Slight problem with that.
The majority of the line from Embsay Jcn to the Quarry was built as a single line.
There is not much free space either side to enable any double track without major work widening embankments or cuttings and installing a number of bridges both over and under.

It could cater for a passenger rail service first upgrade the line by putting a loop in so trains can pass, increase the line speed and put signalling in operated from York as Skipton is today.

 

[pdeaves]

It could cater for a passenger rail service first upgrade the line by putting a loop in so trains can pass, increase the line speed and put signalling in operated from York as Skipton is today.

As Ploughman said, there is no space for a double track. A loop is double track. Can you increase the line speed without straightening the route? If not, you may need land-take to put gentler curves in.
It's rarely as simple as it looks at first.

 

[John Webb]

You would need a new station at the end of the line, and I don't think the quarry would accept it being built on their area. It would have to be either south of the quarry or the line rebuilt to the NE, which wouldn't be easy either. In view of the fact it only goes a few miles into the National Park, for the expense involved I don't think it is a practicable investment.
Don't forget too that the Embsay and Bolton Abbey railway has long-term plans to get a regular service back into Skipton station - extra traffic on the quarry line would interfere with that proposal.
Having holidayed frequently in the Dales in May/June and September/October, I have rarely had any problem with congested roads, and a bit of (paper) map-reading has often taken me away from the busier roads and onto some delightful quiet lanes. Perhaps encouraging people to holiday when possible other than at the peak July-August period would be more productive?

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Another fantasy island proposal, I'm afraid. In addition to the issues with the freight traffic to and from Rylstone Quarry, this part of the Yorkshire Dales simply isn't scenic enough to attract enough tourists to justify a passenger service. It's only beyond Grassington, up Wharfedale towards Buckden and Kettlewell that you get the views for which the Dales are famous.

Generally speaking, if the local bus service isn't particularly frequent then that suggests the demand isn't there. Looking at the 72 Skipton-Grassington timetable, it runs slightly less than hourly and is operated by a single decker, and sometimes a minibus. Where would all the additional passengers come from to justify a rail link?

 

[yoyothehobo]

Lets be honest, the last thing the Yorkshire Dales national park want to get rid of is cars parking in their car parks. It is a massive income stream for them, whilst they would likely get diddly squat from a rail line.

 

[DarloRich]

Grassington nearest station was Threshfield just down the road, well with all the roads getting clogged up with traffic it's about time the Yorkshire Dales National Park stepped in and said we want a railway to free the Dales of cars and today the only transport is car Bus or cycle, come on bring trains towards Grassington so passengers can relax in the Yorkshire Dales without stress, there is a busy single line from Skipton to a quarry just south of Grassington with about 6 to 8 freight a day and with modern signalling and loops on this line it would benefit the area.

It could cater for a passenger rail service first upgrade the line by putting a loop in so trains can pass, increase the line speed and put signalling in operated from York as Skipton is today.

There must be a forest of money trees on your fantasy island! The heat must be getting to people!

On a practical note does the junction at Skipton not face the wrong way?

 

[yoyothehobo]

There must be a forest of money trees on your fantasy island! The heat must be getting to people!

On a practical note does the junction at Skipton not face the wrong way?

Yes, there were platforms at Skipton on the line to Grassington however they have been long removed, the only place you would get through running to would be Carnforth and Carlisle. This would very much stifle any demand from Bradford and Leeds as by the time you have made the change it is quicker to drive.

 

[xotGD]

It would be better to put a new curve in so that the Embsay & Bolton Abbey could run up towards Grassington.

 

[yoyothehobo]

It would be better to put a new curve in so that the Embsay & Bolton Abbey could run up towards Grassington.

Ironically it would probably be the straightest curve on the railway.

I also didnt realise till looking at google that there was no actual rail connection between Embsay and Skipton, I always assumed that the points were there but no, it is actually severed.

Having done ground investigations up there I can tell you putting in a link wont be particularly easy or cheap to build.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

In some US national parks, cars are banned from internal roads, and visitors have to use shuttle buses. Perhaps we should habe something similar in our national parks, albeit residents would still have to be allowed to drive round them as they are generally still working countryside

The US national parks of which you are thinking, don't have towns and villages throughout them. Many visitors to the dales are visiting these locations and limiting access could have a major degradation on the local economy.

I would love some proper wilderness areas in the UK, where no motorised vehicles or man-made structures were permitted, but you can't just impose that onto a local population.

 

[Mollman]

There is some merit in this proposal. Having visit Grassington a number of times for the Dickensian Festival I have wondered about a temporary platform at the quarry for a shuttle service from Skipton. If you drive you have to use a park and ride site to get into Grassington so this might encourage people to use alternative means, especially if priced right.

 

[theageofthetra]

In some US national parks, cars are banned from internal roads, and visitors have to use shuttle buses. Perhaps we should habe something similar in our national parks, albeit residents would still have to be allowed to drive round them as they are generally still working countryside

Same in some Japanese national parks.

 

[bluenoxid]

I don’t think that it is realistic until the quarry closes. I’m aware that the Steam Railway are very interested in restoring their connection to Skipton.

Yes, there were platforms at Skipton on the line to Grassington however they have been long removed, the only place you would get through running to would be Carnforth and Carlisle. This would very much stifle any demand from Bradford and Leeds as by the time you have made the change it is quicker to drive.

I haven’t seen anything to say the platform has been removed at Skipton. The edge stones have been removed but the platform is extant based on records I had. It might be a rip it out job though if anyone was to try to restore as nature has definitely taken its course

Don’t forget how slow and congested the road network is through Shipley, Ilkley and Guiseley. The road speeds only start to increase past Saltaire.

 

[vlad]

In some US national parks, cars are banned from internal roads, and visitors have to use shuttle buses. Perhaps we should habe something similar in our national parks, albeit residents would still have to be allowed to drive round them as they are generally still working countryside

I'd love to be able to visit the Peak District by public transport but given there's only one bus every 3 hours from Leek to Buxton it doesn't really make that possible.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

There is some merit in this proposal. Having visit Grassington a number of times for the Dickensian Festival I have wondered about a temporary platform at the quarry for a shuttle service from Skipton. If you drive you have to use a park and ride site to get into Grassington so this might encourage people to use alternative means, especially if priced right.

A 139 or similar might work well in this setting, with a temporary platform. Particularly since it would likely be at a weekend, so there would be limited quarry traffic.

However in this example, it would move more car traffic to Skipton, which doesn't have an abundance of car parking and during Christmas has its own events to focus on.

 

[B&I]

The US national parks of which you are thinking, don't have towns and villages throughout them. Many visitors to the dales are visiting these locations and limiting access could have a major degradation on the local economy.

I would love some proper wilderness areas in the UK, where no motorised vehicles or man-made structures were permitted, but you can't just impose that onto a local population.

That's why I said local access would be an exception, maintained using something like parking permits.

 

[B&I]

I'd love to be able to visit the Peak District by public transport but given there's only one bus every 3 hours from Leek to Buxton it doesn't really make that possible.

Really ? That's depressing. Years ago, when I went walking quite frequently in the White Peak, I seem to remember there was a fairly frequent Stoke-Leek-Buxton-Sheffield service.

 

[johnnychips]

Really ? That's depressing. Years ago, when I went walking quite frequently in the White Peak, I seem to remember there was a fairly frequent Stoke-Leek-Buxton-Sheffield service.

Six a day in 1970, four a day now.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Really ? That's depressing. Years ago, when I went walking quite frequently in the White Peak, I seem to remember there was a fairly frequent Stoke-Leek-Buxton-Sheffield service.

Ah yes, that was the X18, which I think was withdrawn about 10 years ago. I used to use it to go walking in The Roaches, a journey which is almost impossible to do by public transport from Sheffield now.

 

[WestRiding]

What is the actual situation with linking Embsay to Skipton? It has been talked about for years, but nothing ever happens. It is crying out for the points to be reinstated!

 

[WestRiding]

Who would operate the crossing at Cracoe? Expense right away to make it a manned location.

 

[B&I]

Six a day in 1970, four a day now.

I'm not that bloody old

 

[B&I]

Ah yes, that was the X18, which I think was withdrawn about 10 years ago. I used to use it to go walking in The Roaches, a journey which is almost impossible to do by public transport from Sheffield now.

I have fond memories of very early trains to Buxton, then the 442 minibus tootling out into the middle of nowhere

 

[xotGD]

What is the actual situation with linking Embsay to Skipton? It has been talked about for years, but nothing ever happens. It is crying out for the points to be reinstated!

It will probably open at the same time as Skipton - Colne...

 

[Flying Claret]

There's already a main line running right through the heart of the dales that isn't exactly at bursting point in terms of capacity. How would an additional branch line to a quarry a mile outside of a small villiage suddenly provide a supply for all this suppressed demand?

 

[johnnychips]

I'm not that bloody old

Only timetable I had to hand