My ideas for a Metro for Exeter.

[Railfan2156]

Could Exeter have a metro that was like the London Overground? What do you think about it (the links below are to my websites about it):

http://kerrystapleton.wix.com/exeter-metro

The local council already fund several services in the area, and they will, of course, be our first port of call. They are currently funding the Devon Metro scheme, and the plan at the moment seems to be to use some of the trains in the Devon Metro to create an Exeter-Specific branding over time. So far, the council have been silent on the proposal to re-open a stretch of the Teign Valley Line, but with the government looking for an alternative route inland we hope to work with the Teign Valley Group to get it re-opened - we hope!

http://exeter-metro.wikia.com/wiki/Exeter_Metro_Wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exeter_Metro

 

[NSEFAN]

Apart from the reopening to Dunsford, isn't this just a frequency increase and rebranding exercise?

 

[Railfan2156]

Apart from the reopening to Dunsford, isn't this just a frequency increase and rebranding exercise?

Yeah, it's a pity that there isn't an underground service or a monorail.

 

[CC 72100]

I think a DLR-type service is what the city is crying out for to be honest.

(Post not serious)

 

[Rapidash]

Wasn't there a professor emeritus of magic (uh, quantum mathematics) who said Exter needed an underground system last year? From what I've heard from a few people close to the council, it was....politely put in a shredder somewhere.

Exeter definitely needs something though. Traffics an absolute nightmare even in the depths of winter. I know it was previously rejected, but a congestion charge would help a fair bit!

Seeing as Exeter seems to be heading towards a new role as Capital of the Mid Westcountry, and is the focus of the majority of district councils zoning for new homes, things need to be done sooner rather than later. As per usual.....

 

[NSEFAN]

There's definitely scope for service improvement. I think that once electrification reaches Exeter it may be easier to justify electrification of the local routes and create a "metro" service with additional double tracked sections and passing loops.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Apart from the reopening to Dunsford, isn't this just a frequency increase and rebranding exercise?

No harm in that...

 

[21C101]

Apart from the reopening to Dunsford, isn't this just a frequency increase and rebranding exercise?

Unless there are huge housing estates planned between Exeter and Dunsford reopening half of the Teign Valley line into the middle of nowhere rather undermines the credibility of the scheme. As does ending it at Feniton rather than Honiton or Axminster.

If you are going to branch into reopenings then one of the following seems to have more potential:

• Metro service to Cullompton with reopened stations at Stoke Canon, Hele & Brandnich, Cullompton, Willand and terminating at Tiverton Parkway or maybe even reopening the exe valley line from Stoke Canon to Tiverton if some large garden towns could be built along the route gaining some developer funding.
  
• Extend Exmouth Branch to Budleigh Salterton.

If tram trains were used then the line could continue along a new on street alignment through Budleigh and then back on the old line to East Budleigh before running on a new off street alignment via Otterton directly to Sidmouth, then on street through Sidmouth and a new largely off road alignment to Branscombe, Beer and Seaton following the coast path, then through Seaton on Street and up the axe valley following the old branch as far as Colyford, then alongside the River Axe to Whitford and alongside the railway from Whitford to Axminster and then on street into the town centre terminus - Ambtious, but at least it would go somewhere and serve the East Devon resorts in a more useful way than the old branches that terminated a mile out of town did.

A tram train could similarly extend from Paignton to to Churston then off street along the old branch to Brixham with the final bit on street and extend the Gunnislake Branch from Plymouth North Road into the city centre.
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There's definitely scope for service improvement. I think that once electrification reaches Exeter it may be easier to justify electrification of the local routes and create a "metro" service with additional double tracked sections and passing loops.

The Exmouth branch was originally double track to Topsham and the remaining platform at Exmouth is actually an island platform - unfortunately they would need to compulsorily purchase the trackbed. Similarly the line to Crediton and beyond was originally double track.

 

[swt_passenger]

There's a fair bit on the 'Devon Metro' as Network Rail refer to it, in last October's Western Route Study (draft version), which should be formalised later this year I think?

One things for sure, it isn't going to be much 'like the London Overground' - if that's how a metro is to be defined...

 

[Rapidash]

A tram train could similarly extend from Paignton to to Churston then off street along the old branch to Brixham with the final bit on street

Um, you do know where the old station was in Brixham right? No one in their right mind rebuild it there. I say this as someone who lived on Station Hill for 25 years!

Saying that, some form of rail link would be a godsend. Hour and a bit to Exeter or Plymouth, population of 16k, only one main road out that is regularly closed due to crashes....

What's the return on investment score for that?!

 

[MarkyT]

Um, you do know where the old station was in Brixham right? No one in their right mind rebuild it there. I say this as someone who lived on Station Hill for 25 years!

Saying that, some form of rail link would be a godsend. Hour and a bit to Exeter or Plymouth, population of 16k, only one main road out that is regularly closed due to crashes....

What's the return on investment score that?!

The old Brixham station might have worked better if a funicular lift system had been installed down to quayside level, but reinstatement today would also face significant housing development over the trackbed at the high level, that would be expensive and difficult politically to compulsorily purchase.

 

[iantherev]

Have you driven along the back road from Otterton to Sidmouth or for that matter done the coast path to Seaton? Rack and pinion might be more applicable than tramway. Speaking of which, I'm sure the Seaton Tramway would be delighted to be swallowed up. And as for on street running into Axminster we have enough problems with 44 tonne lorries without introducing trams into the mix, thanks. East Devon is not as flat as people think.

 

[Rapidash]

.....There's a part of Devon that isn't hills? Citation needed! I nearly had a panic attack when I visited Norfolk last year, could see for ruddy miles around. Wasn't natural!

 

[21C101]

Um, you do know where the old station was in Brixham right? No one in their right mind rebuild it there. I say this as someone who lived on Station Hill for 25 years!

Saying that, some form of rail link would be a godsend. Hour and a bit to Exeter or Plymouth, population of 16k, only one main road out that is regularly closed due to crashes....

What's the return on investment score for that?!

My idea of using tram trains is to run on street from the edge of town to the town centre precisely to avoid the old station which is built over anyway.
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Have you driven along the back road from Otterton to Sidmouth or for that matter done the coast path to Seaton? Rack and pinion might be more applicable than tramway. Speaking of which, I'm sure the Seaton Tramway would be delighted to be swallowed up. And as for on street running into Axminster we have enough problems with 44 tonne lorries without introducing trams into the mix, thanks. East Devon is not as flat as people think.

You would be surprised at the gradients that old style trams let alone modern ones can cope with. Alas I was too young to get a tram up Anerley Hill near Crystal Palace which is 1 in 8 in parts and a long climb too, but it was quite a sight. No reason why you couldn;t add stretches of rack and pinion though if needed. Common enough in Europe.

Wouldn't affect the Seaston tramway, other than temporary disruption, as there is room for both and my proposed route could run up the other side of the estuary and serve Axmouth in any case.

You have got a point about Axminster town centre though. Maybe if I fill it with trams you would get an A358 bypass running alongside the "up" side of railway. If that happens perhaps they would do Chard as well to avoid that dreadful traffic light junction with the A30

 

[Railfan2156]

Wasn't there a professor emeritus of magic (uh, quantum mathematics) who said Exter needed an underground system last year? From what I've heard from a few people close to the council, it was....politely put in a shredder somewhere.

Exeter definitely needs something though. Traffics an absolute nightmare even in the depths of winter. I know it was previously rejected, but a congestion charge would help a fair bit!

Seeing as Exeter seems to be heading towards a new role as Capital of the Mid Westcountry, and is the focus of the majority of district councils zoning for new homes, things need to be done sooner rather than later. As per usual.....

I doubt that we will get one, but the idea proposed seems more realistic.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

.....There's a part of Devon that isn't hills? Citation needed! I nearly had a panic attack when I visited Norfolk last year, could see for ruddy miles around. Wasn't natural!

You've never been to the top of a hill then?

 

[The Ham]

You've never been to the top of a hill then?

Although from the top of a hill you can see for miles, it's only for a short time and even then there's lots hidden by other hills so it's not the same.

 

[Railfan2156]

.....There's a part of Devon that isn't hills? Citation needed! I nearly had a panic attack when I visited Norfolk last year, could see for ruddy miles around. Wasn't natural!

Exeter is a bustling, thriving city...
..surrounded by hills :roll:
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Although from the top of a hill you can see for miles, it's only for a short time and even then there's lots hidden by other hills so it's not the same.

It's scary how seroiusly that comment was taken (bump).

 

[TerminalJunkie]

.....There's a part of Devon that isn't hills?

Slapton. Although most of it is in the sea, now.

 

[ExRes]

It seems as though the newly re-elected Mayor of Torbay is keen on bringing the idea of the Churston - Brixham railway back to life in the form of a 'light railway'



http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...4Ne-UZy4aUPW2TiKlmMsOvQ&bvm=bv.93756505,d.ZGU

it should be interesting to see if his vote catcher can be brought to life

 

[HilversumNS]

Yeah, it's a pity that there isn't an underground service or a monorail.

Ideas for new services are great, but costs have to be taken into account. Undergrounds are VERY expensive to build, which is why only London and Glasgow have them.

 

[40129]

Ideas for new services are great, but costs have to be taken into account. Undergrounds are VERY expensive to build, which is why only London and Glasgow have them.

Not forgetting Liverpool and Newcastle

 

[HilversumNS]

Not forgetting Liverpool and Newcastle

Both of those have portions (<10%) which run underground, but the majority isn't, which is why I didn't include them.

Merseyrail: 75 miles of which 6.5 are underground
Newcastle Metro: 48 miles of which 4 are underground

 

[40129]

Both of those have portions (<10%) which run underground, but the majority isn't, which is why I didn't include them.

Merseyrail: 75 miles of which 6.5 are underground
Newcastle Metro: 48 miles of which 4 are underground

Not sure that an Exeter Metro would need much more tunnelling than Liverpool or Newcastle though as outside of the central area it would use existing or disused tracks. In any cast the most likely solution would be either tram-train or a Metrolink type conversion.

 

[HilversumNS]

Not sure that an Exeter Metro would need much more tunnelling than Liverpool or Newcastle though as outside of the central area it would use existing or disused tracks. In any cast the most likely solution would be either tram-train or a Metrolink type conversion.

I agree, but I was initially simply referring to the underground suggestion, not the metro one.

I still think that costs would be an issue, even in the central area. Both Newcastle and Liverpool have much larger (double or more) populations to supply such a system with passengers.

 

[Camden]

Exeter is 118,000 people, "Merseyside" and "Tyneside", which both encompass the majority of the extent of their city's systems, are 1.5 million and 780,000 people respectively. Merseyside in particular also has a great deal of urbanity connected directly to it, realistically the Liverpool system serves a population of more like 2 million.

I don't think the UK is the place to look for inspiration when it comes to smaller cities having quality public transport as clearly you have to be quite big before you get a look in (and obviously you do need lots of people to sustain expensive things like true metros, and underground running), but perhaps there are small cities on the continent that can provide some inspiration of public transport done well in similar circumstances to Exeter.

 

[glbotu]

Exeter is 118,000 people, "Merseyside" and "Tyneside", which both encompass the majority of the extent of their city's systems, are 1.5 million and 780,000 people respectively. Merseyside in particular also has a great deal of urbanity connected directly to it, realistically the Liverpool system serves a population of more like 2 million.

The Tyne and Wear Metro also serves more than just Tyneside, it goes to Wearside too, which takes its served population to closer to 1.7 million

 

[Camden]

Sure, well the point is that they are both massively, many times bigger than Exeter and thus able to support the systems they've got. Realistically, Exeter needs to look outside the UK for realistic inspiration, as even some much larger cities don't have decent transport systems in the UK (Leicester, etc, etc).

 

[Bletchleyite]

Both of those have portions (<10%) which run underground, but the majority isn't, which is why I didn't include them.

Merseyrail: 75 miles of which 6.5 are underground
Newcastle Metro: 48 miles of which 4 are underground

Typically undergrounds are only underground in the city centre (Glasgow being a bit of an exception), so how much is underground tends to depend on the size of the city centre. I don't know Newcastle well, but Liverpool city centre is very compact. Though by a German sense Merseyrail is more of an S-Bahn (heavy rail) than an U-Bahn (light rail).

 

[Camden]

Don't think U-Bahn means light rail, it just means underground. Most U-Bahn is heavy rail.

Yes Merseyrail is an "S-Bahn", as it has clockface lines that converge in a regular pattern to form an ascending frequency the closer you get to the centre of the city (essentially 15 mins - 7 mins - <5 mins frequency patterns depending on how far you are from the city centre). Again though that doesn't necessarily have to mean anything regarding underground or not, just the characteristics of the service pattern and frequency.

In any case S-Bahn/U-Bahn is out of the reach of Exeter.