My suggestion for an Edinburgh to Balloch / West Highland Line direct rail service

[kidman123]

I was on a 334 on the A2B line today as I have done many times but this time I did the full route to helensburgh instead for the firstvtime. But that got me thinking that why hasn't ScotRail got a service to balloch from Edinburgh as the now you need to swap at Airdrie for this you can put 320s on this route as they have got the yaw dampers that allows the trains to go 90mph on the a2b. This will allow lesuire or tourism from east coast to loch Lomond.

They can also do full west Highland service to Edinburgh think the tourism that will generate even if it is only a 2 tpd each way.

Come on ScotRail push the boat out

 

[Esker-pades]

Re. Balloch to Edinburgh:
I doubt many people would actually use it as a through service. The services via Airdrie and Bathgate is still much slower than via Falkirk High. It is still much faster to change at Queen Street when doing Edinburgh to Milngavie/Helensburgh.

Re. Edinburgh to West Highland:
Firstly, there is an Edinburgh to Oban service and return on Summer Sundays.
But, one has to consider how many paths a 75mph DMU would use on a 100mph EMU railway. Simply, the 156 would swallow up so much capacity with its lower top speed and poorer accelleration, that weaving it around other services would be a nightmare. Finding paths between Polmont and Edinburgh, especially from Newbridge Junction is very difficult at the best of times, let alone for a 156. And for 1/2 trains per day? It's really not worth it. Given the pathing problems that would be encountered, the Edinburgh to Glasgow section would be so much slower than getting a direct express via Falkirk High.


Simply: Changing at Queen Street isn't that bad. Having direct services from everywhere to everywhere is simply not possibly on such a congested network.

 

[computerSaysNo]

I was on a 334 on the A2B line today as I have done many times but this time I did the full route to helensburgh instead for the firstvtime. But that got me thinking that why hasn't ScotRail got a service to balloch from Edinburgh as the now you need to swap at Airdrie for this you can put 320s on this route as they have got the yaw dampers that allows the trains to go 90mph on the a2b. This will allow lesuire or tourism from east coast to loch Lomond.

Unfortunately the 320s can't be used east of Airdrie because there isn't the correct equipment on the platforms for the driver to operate the doors safely.

How well-used is the service from east of Queen Street to Milngavie? Would it be possible to divert this (maybe starting as Saturday and/or Sunday only?) from Milngavie to Balloch?

 

[alangla]

The A2B section of both services tends to be the quietest bit I find, except during the festival or if there’s rugby on. The two ends are busy, particularly east of Bathgate. I suspect there’s almost zero end-to-end traffic and I’m not sure why you’d want to change that- the Falkirk High services are much quicker and as others have said, changing at Queen Street is fine. I do, however, see the sense in extending the Partick to Springburn Sunday service to Balloch, rather than the Motherwell one. That way Balloch is served off Queen Street 7 days rather than from Central on a Sunday

 

[theironroad]

'A2B' ???

 

[kidman123]

'A2B' ???

Airdrie to bathgate

 

[d9009alycidon]

Historically, at the beginning of the Blue Trains in 1960, the service pattern was Airdrie to Helensburgh/Dalmuir (Park), Bridgeton to Balloch and Springburn to Milngavie, apart from some tinkering in the intervening years the pattern has remained fairly constant, if you live in Airdrie and you want to go to Balloch you need to change!

 

[route101]

I recall actually that one or two early morning services from Balloch ran through to Edinburgh .

 

[alangla]

There used to be a morning Bathgate depot - station - Balloch- Edinburgh service, not sure if that still runs. I always assumed it was a route knowledge retainer for Bathgate depot on the branch

 

[route101]

There used to be a morning Bathgate depot - station - Balloch- Edinburgh service, not sure if that still runs. I always assumed it was a route knowledge retainer for Bathgate depot on the branch

Do Bathgate depot operate out West?I thought Airdrie was their western limit

 

[Edward Cairns]

There used to be a morning Bathgate depot - station - Balloch- Edinburgh service, not sure if that still runs. I always assumed it was a route knowledge retainer for Bathgate depot on the branch

I'm fairly certain that there is a train that comes out at Bathgate depot but the service starts at Airdrie platform 2 rather than platform 1 which they usually terminate/start from.
It certainly doesn't start at Bathgate then terminate at Balloch as I've never seen a Balloch train stop at Drumgelloch

 

[Scotrail84]

Do Bathgate depot operate out West?I thought Airdrie was their western limit

Pretty sure Bathgate depot covers all the way to Helensburgh.

 

[Edward Cairns]

Pretty sure Bathgate depot covers all the way to Helensburgh.

Apologies if I'm repeating myself but they must serve balloch also as every night par Sunday there is a Balloch - Airdrie service that terminates there then immediately proceeds to Bathgate depot, it's always a class 320\318, only ever time you seem a 320 or 318 go past Airdrie

 

[route101]

Pretty sure Bathgate depot covers all the way to Helensburgh.

Interesting

 

[route101]

I'm fairly certain that there is a train that comes out at Bathgate depot but the service starts at Airdrie platform 2 rather than platform 1 which they usually terminate/start from.
It certainly doesn't start at Bathgate then terminate at Balloch as I've never seen a Balloch train stop at Drumgelloch

Didn't the balloch services used to terminate at drumgelloch before the line to bathgate was opened?

 

[Scotrail84]

Apologies if I'm repeating myself but they must serve balloch also as every night par Sunday there is a Balloch - Airdrie service that terminates there then immediately proceeds to Bathgate depot, it's always a class 320\318, only ever time you seem a 320 or 318 go past Airdrie

Do the Balloch services stop at Dalmuir? Crew changes happen there as there is a depot there as well. Same at Yoker, theres a driver depot there too. Pretty sure theres a driver/TE depot at Airdrie also.

 

[Edward Cairns]

Didn't the balloch services used to terminate at drumgelloch before the line to bathgate was opened?

Yes sorry for the confusion, pretty sure they did before the line was built but afterwards when the line was opened it’s been Airdrie

 

[Edward Cairns]

Do the Balloch services stop at Dalmuir? Crew changes happen there as there is a depot there as well. Same at Yoker, theres a driver depot there too. Pretty sure theres a driver/TE depot at Airdrie also.

They do stop at Dalmuir but I don’t recall ever seeing a driver change happen there. Pretty certain it doesn’t go via Yoker anymore so changes can’t be done there. I have only ever seen changes at Airdrie really

 

[Esker-pades]

They do stop at Dalmuir but I don’t recall ever seeing a driver change happen there. Pretty certain it doesn’t go via Yoker anymore so changes can’t be done there. I have only ever seen changes at Airdrie really

Yes. Airdrie to Balloch services run via Singer.

 

[PHILIPE]

The routes and timetables are very complex and run to a clockface pattern so any change would land you with the task of re-writing the whole North Clyde Timetable as only one change would impact on so many services.

 

[Altnabreac]

Unfortunately the 320s can't be used east of Airdrie because there isn't the correct equipment on the platforms for the driver to operate the doors safely.

How well-used is the service from east of Queen Street to Milngavie? Would it be possible to divert this (maybe starting as Saturday and/or Sunday only?) from Milngavie to Balloch?

My understanding is that there is a reasonable usage of commuters / regular travellers from Milngavie / Bearsden to Edinburgh who stay on the A2B all the way for convenience. This is probably larger numbers then any theoretical usage by leisure travellers to Balloch so there would be no justification for changing the weekday service pattern.

As you say it could be changed at weekends only but given leisure travellers are more willing to change and more likely to be able to get a seat when changing I'm not sure how many (if any) extra journeys would be generated at weekends by such an alteration which would be operationally tricky.

 

[paddington]

Firstly, there is an Edinburgh to Oban service and return on Summer Sundays.

I found this on PSUL and was trying to see if I could travel on this service, as I have not yet been on the West Highlands lines.

But the timings don't really work for a day trip - not worth it to spend 6 hours on a train just to go to Oban, yet insufficient time to get back from Mull if you want to do anything on the isle. So what is the point of this service from a passenger perspective?

It also seems that tickets might be cheaper splitting at Glasgow (and not using this service). Furthermore, it's difficult to get to Waverley for 8am on Sunday morning, unless you're starting from a hotel (ridiculously priced in summer) though I suppose one could join at the pick-up only stops.


Then I figured that I already travelled between Cowlairs North Junction and Cowlairs East Junction in 2016 when Glasgow Queen St was being renovated, and there is a question I wanted to ask back then but forgot: I'm not sure if I got this right but it seems the Cowlairs junctions are oddly named, the North Jn is actually on the west side, the West Jn is actually south and the East Jn is actually north, is there any particular reason they are named like this?

 

[jopsuk]

Then I figured that I already travelled between Cowlairs North Junction and Cowlairs East Junction in 2016 when Glasgow Queen St was being renovated, and there is a question I wanted to ask back then but forgot: I'm not sure if I got this right but it seems the Cowlairs junctions are oddly named, the North Jn is actually on the west side, the West Jn is actually south and the East Jn is actually north, is there any particular reason they are named like this?

Pure guess work, but it might be on the principal that the "main line" is east-west for most of its length, just happening to run north-south for this stretch. So the East junction is on the "east" side of the triangle, etc.

 

[route101]

I found this on PSUL and was trying to see if I could travel on this service, as I have not yet been on the West Highlands lines.

But the timings don't really work for a day trip - not worth it to spend 6 hours on a train just to go to Oban, yet insufficient time to get back from Mull if you want to do anything on the isle. So what is the point of this service from a passenger perspective?

It also seems that tickets might be cheaper splitting at Glasgow (and not using this service). Furthermore, it's difficult to get to Waverley for 8am on Sunday morning, unless you're starting from a hotel (ridiculously priced in summer) though I suppose one could join at the pick-up only stops.


Then I figured that I already travelled between Cowlairs North Junction and Cowlairs East Junction in 2016 when Glasgow Queen St was being renovated, and there is a question I wanted to ask back then but forgot: I'm not sure if I got this right but it seems the Cowlairs junctions are oddly named, the North Jn is actually on the west side, the West Jn is actually south and the East Jn is actually north, is there any particular reason they are named like this?

156 through Falkirk High and Linlithgow is rare , yeah surprised it does not run on Saturdays and Fridays during the summer

 

[Esker-pades]

156 through Falkirk High and Linlithgow is rare , yeah surprised it does not run on Saturdays and Fridays during the summer

There aren't the paths available Monday to Saturday for such a service.

 

[VT 390]

Are the current summer only Sunday services from Edinburgh to Oban and return (avoiding Glasgow) usually very busy?