Name for Platforms with A&B ends

[Waverley125]

Quick question:


Where a platform is signalled such that it can host two departing trains at the same time (e.g. Manchester Picc, Glasgow QS, Leeds P1-6) what's it called?

Thinking specifically of instances where (hypothetical example) the 1728 will leave from Platform 4B (far end) and the 1731 from Platform 4A (near end).

 

[Deepgreen]

Quick question:


Where a platform is signalled such that it can host two departing trains at the same time (e.g. Manchester Picc, Glasgow QS, Leeds P1-6) what's it called?

Thinking specifically of instances where (hypothetical example) the 1728 will leave from Platform 4B (far end) and the 1731 from Platform 4A (near end).

At Redhill, platforms 1 and 2 are labelled 1A & B and 2A & B. Strangely, platform 3, which also hosts splitting trains, is only labelled as one platform. Mindyou, we don't expect any information provision logic from Southern!

 

[Jonfun]

Quick question:


Where a platform is signalled such that it can host two departing trains at the same time (e.g. Manchester Picc, Glasgow QS, Leeds P1-6) what's it called?

Thinking specifically of instances where (hypothetical example) the 1728 will leave from Platform 4B (far end) and the 1731 from Platform 4A (near end).

It depends. If it's signalled such that there's a signal halfway along the platform (eg Birmingham New Street), then that's generally referred to (round here at least) simply as a mid-platform signal, although no doubt there'll be regional variations.

If it's signalled so that the platform is one signal section, then allowing two trains into the section is called permissive working - at the previous signal you'll get a danger signal, plus the call on aspect, which is usually two white dots at 45°, indicating the section ahead is occupied. I've always heard the term "double docking" to refer to the arrangement, but again, railway terminology differs depending on where you go.

I may have misunderstood the question though. Do you mean you can send two trains out opposite directions at the same time (eg platform 6B at New Street for the 1631 Manchester and platform 6A for the 1630 Newcastle)? I don't know whether that has a specific name.

 

[me123]

I hate to be picky, but there's no such provision at Glasgow Queen Street. Or for that matter in any Glasgow station.

 

[30907]

Quick question:


Where a platform is signalled such that it can host two departing trains at the same time (e.g. Manchester Picc, Glasgow QS, Leeds P1-6) what's it called?

Thinking specifically of instances where (hypothetical example) the 1728 will leave from Platform 4B (far end) and the 1731 from Platform 4A (near end).

Do you mean "what is the technical term for this" - I don't think there is one, as almost any signalled platform can be used for multiple departures - and arrivals too, provided they are signalled appropriately.

If you mean "how are they numbered" - there was a thread a few months ago, and there isn't a consistent pattern across the country.

 

[edwin_m]

I've only encountered "double docking" to mean two trains arriving at a terminal platform and departing in reverse order without coupling or uncoupling. That's a special case of permissive platform working, but as suggested terminology may differ.

I'm sure platforms at both Glasgow Queen Street and Glasgow Central can contain more than one train at a time, though obviously they can't both depart from the same platform at the same time!

 

[oddiesjack]

Of course in Sheffield, not only does Platform 2 have A and B ends, but there is a platform 2C as well.
Those of us off the Hope Valley service, which uses it, refer to it (with some justification) as "The Platform That Time Forgot"

 

[me123]

I'm sure platforms at both Glasgow Queen Street and Glasgow Central can contain more than one train at a time, though obviously they can't both depart from the same platform at the same time!

Absolutely, it's very common for trains to join and split in both stations. But there's no arrangement where you can depart in both directions, and there's no arrangement where platforms are divided into "A" and "B" ends.

There are examples elsewhere, such as Edinburgh (Platforms 8&9 have East and West ends) and Aberdeen (Platforms 6&7 have North and South ends).

 

[Monty]

Southampton Central also splits it's platforms into 'A' and 'B' areas. Permissive working occurs there on a regular basis.

Edit- Also, I do believe Reading post rebuild has some of its platforms split into A & B.

 

[Railsigns]

Platform Sharing is defined as: "Permitting two passenger trains to occupy a platform line simultaneously, other than for the purposes of attaching, detaching or removing vehicles, without the existence of a mid-platform signal."

 

[61653 HTAFC]

At Leeds of course the long through platforms are not just split into a and b sections, but c and d too. I've not seen all four sections occupied at once though, and I'd be surprised if the signalling allows it.

 

[FGW_DID]

Southampton Central also splits it's platforms into 'A' and 'B' areas. Permissive working occurs there on a regular basis.

Edit- Also, I do believe Reading post rebuild has some of its platforms split into A & B.

Reading's Platforms 7-15 are split into A & B ends A: London End B: Bristol End.
(1-3 are the bays for Newbury/Basingstoke Services / 4-6 are services to Waterloo, Gatwick Airport etc)

There is no mid platform signal, permissive working is used and services can & will depart in opposite direction.

There are "rear clear" markers provided on these platforms:

http://www.railsigns.uk/photos/p_misc1/p_misc1.html#pic_rearcl5

 

[Boysteve]

At Manchester Piccadilly when two trains occupy the same platform I have heard various terminologies from platform staff and announcements. However the one that appears to be the most understood by the public is 'The train at the departure end of platform...' when referring to the first of the two trains to leave. However this will only work at a Terminus, it is no use for Birmingham New Street or Leeds (through platforms).
In Germany at main stations such as Cologne Hauptbahnhof the platforms are zoned. The platform displays show what the train is at 'B+C' and 'E+F+G'.

 

[Minilad]

The through platforms at Nottingham are now designated A, B and C and it's quite common to have 3 trains on platform 3 at the same time

 

[Sleepy]

Ipswich can be quite confusing for pax unfamiliar with this concept platform 1 can have a Cambridge / Peterborough and Lowestoft or Felixstowe due to depart within a few minutes of each other as can platform 3 or 4 with a LST bound EMU, and a DMU hiding at North end of platform !

 

[jopsuk]

And then Stratford goes and spoils it all by having 10 and 10A be completely separate platforms, on different islands facing across a pair of tracks

 

[Clansman]

Aberdeen has a similar system. Platforms 6N & 6S, 7N & 7S seems much more simple as the letters symbolize the direction of travel. I.e the southern end of the platform would be xS and the northern end xN.

 

[cool110]

Then there's Preston with 3 and 4 split into A and B ends, but C is a pair of bays between the main platforms.

 

[Norther Monkey]

Aberdeen has a similar system. Platforms 6N & 6S, 7N & 7S seems much more simple as the letters symbolize the direction of travel. I.e the southern end of the platform would be xS and the northern end xN.

Except that - just to confuse things - there is at least one point in the day when an Edinburgh train departs from 6N just before an Inverness from 6S. Possibly to make the connection from the Edinburgh arrival on 5 that bit easier (5 being opposite 6S).

In any case trains in either direction often depart from the 'wrong' end!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

All the four terminal platforms at Manchester Airport are designated A and B.

 

[onlinespotting]

At Manchester Piccadilly when two trains occupy the same platform I have heard various terminologies from platform staff and announcements. However the one that appears to be the most understood by the public is 'The train at the departure end of platform...' when referring to the first of the two trains to leave. However this will only work at a Terminus, it is no use for Birmingham New Street or Leeds (through platforms).
In Germany at main stations such as Cologne Hauptbahnhof the platforms are zoned. The platform displays show what the train is at 'B+C' and 'E+F+G'.

The manual announcers, yes; but the auto pa refers to 'travel in the front train only' which can be confusing if there are two trains already in the platform and your train hasn't pulled in yet

 

[Phil.]

At Redhill, platforms 1 and 2 are labelled 1A & B and 2A & B. Strangely, platform 3, which also hosts splitting trains, is only labelled as one platform. Mindyou, we don't expect any information provision logic from Southern!

That's perhaps because although it's signalled for such a move trains rarely start off in the up direction from 3. Mind you, having stated that, trains do start off in the down direction from the London end of 1.

 

[EbbwJunction1]

If it's announcements you're asking about, those at Cardiff Central say "Platforms 3A, 3B, 4A and 4B".

 

[MarkyT]

Except that - just to confuse things - there is at least one point in the day when an Edinburgh train departs from 6N just before an Inverness from 6S. Possibly to make the connection from the Edinburgh arrival on 5 that bit easier (5 being opposite 6S).

In any case trains in either direction often depart from the 'wrong' end!

It shouldn't be a problem as long as correct information is given out to customers. The platforms are identified geographically as being at distinct ends of the station, so it's logical and memorable for customers' wayfinding. Better than A, B really because A and B have no wider meaning. If A was always the 'London end', say, that would be useful, but I'm sure that's NOT the case. In any particular example you'd learn the convention at any regularly used station quickly anyway and it's always consistent across parallel platforms. Bristol TM splits the long platforms into separately numbered sections, odd at London end, even at Country. The old Reading had an interesting arrangement with 4A/B being a completely separate set of two terminal platforms for SWT trains whilst 4 remained as the very busy main westbound through platform. I think that was a reluctance to renumber all the Western platforms when the separate Southern station closed, and it's trains moved over into a single new terminal platform on the site of a former parcels bay at the London end of the Western station. It was pedestrian connected on the level to platform 4 and this was all well before the 1980s new concourse, so in those days you had to go out onto 4 to get to 4A. 4A soon proved inadequate for traffic alone and was joined by 4B. In those days I don't think anyone contemplated the use of the numeral 0 as a platform ID although that has since become fashionable.

 

[PR1Berske]

Then there's Preston with 3 and 4 split into A and B ends, but C is a pair of bays between the main platforms.

And 1 and 2 both allow for 1a/1b, 2a/2b, I've seen 2b used recently for the Liverpool electrics if there's a Northern already further up.

Alas no longer can we hear 3c/4c described as being "beyond the Gold Zone marker"

 

[Crossover]

"Permissive working" is the technical term I have heard to describe the practice of bringing one train in on top of another, when the track berth is already occupied

It may have changed since the resignalling, but some platforms at Stafford I believe allowed permissive working - I'm fairly sure pl 1 didn't - in which case, once a train is berthed, I guess that'll be it and another train couldn't come on top in normal working*

*For a failure, different rules would presumably apply

 

[Kryten2340]

At Newcastle platforms 5-8 are two physical platforms with two numbers. 5 and 7 share one platform and 6 and 8 share another.

 

[jopsuk]

That's not uncommon- eg at Edinburgh Waverly 1&20, 2&19 and 7&11 are single long platforms with a crossover midway. Cambridge has platforms 1 & 4, both of which have a lower cas a at the outer ends, as a single face.