Nantwich and the Crewe to Chester line

[Philip]

A couple of questions relating to the above. Firstly, should Manchester to Shrewsbury/South Wales services make hourly calls at Nantwich each way, rather than the current hotchpotch of some trains calling there and some not? I am pretty sure there is a strong flow of passengers between Manchester and Nantwich, so is it time TfW included Nantwich calls in all of the long distance Manchester services?

Secondly, is there a good case for reopening some stations on the Crewe to Chester line? I'm thinking Wardle (for the NWF farming plant there) and Beeston Castle & Tarporley (because of the tourism for Beeston & Peckforton Castles and because Tarporley is a small town and would benefit from a rail service to Crewe and Chester).

What are your thoughts on the above proposals?

 

[seagull]

With the way Nantwich's population has increased over recent years I would think it should merit an hourly longer-distance service, but I don't know the actual data so that could be wrong.

I assume you meant Calveley station for serving Wardle?
I could certainly imagine a case for Beeston and Tarporley and indeed there has been a campaign running for nearly ten years to reopen this one. Which, again, with new housing estates going up in Tarporley currently, strengthens the case further.

 

[30907]

A couple of questions relating to the above. Firstly, should Manchester to Shrewsbury/South Wales services make hourly calls at Nantwich each way, rather than the current hotchpotch of some trains calling there and some not? I am pretty sure there is a strong flow of passengers between Manchester and Nantwich, so is it time TfW included Nantwich calls in all of the long distance Manchester services?

Possibly (but why not Whitchurch as well, given that it has the same pattern?) but there look to be pathing constraints at the Newport end especially southbound which add substantially to journey time.
The whole service needs a rethink, which will prbably be triggered by the arrival of the new (now 2 sorts of) rolling stock.

Secondly, is there a good case for reopening some stations on the Crewe to Chester line? I'm thinking Wardle (for the NWF farming plant there) and Beeston Castle & Tarporley (because of the tourism for Beeston & Peckforton Castles and because Tarporley is a small town and would benefit from a rail service to Crewe and Chester).

Stations to serve workplaces (or minor tourist attractions) don't work terribly well unless there is a very specific flow - you need originating traffic too.
The problem with Tarporley is that it's rather far from the station to compete with road for relatively short distance commutes.

 

[Philip]

With the way Nantwich's population has increased over recent years I would think it should merit an hourly longer-distance service, but I don't know the actual data so that could be wrong.

I assume you meant Calveley station for serving Wardle?
I could certainly imagine a case for Beeston and Tarporley and indeed there has been a campaign running for nearly ten years to reopen this one. Which, again, with new housing estates going up in Tarporley currently, strengthens the case further.

Calveley yes, although a new station might be be better sited further east so that it is still within walking distance of the hamlet of Calveley but more accessible for the big farming industrial unit across the A51 and Shropshire Union Canal.

Possibly (but why not Whitchurch as well, given that it has the same pattern?) but there look to be pathing constraints at the Newport end especially southbound which add substantially to journey time.
The whole service needs a rethink, which will prbably be triggered by the arrival of the new (now 2 sorts of) rolling stock.

Stations to serve workplaces (or minor tourist attractions) don't work terribly well unless there is a very specific flow - you need originating traffic too.
The problem with Tarporley is that it's rather far from the station to compete with road for relatively short distance commutes.

I still think Tarporley and Beeston could work quite well at least for tourism in a similar way that Delamere has done.

Perhaps a better option for Calveley would be to make it a halt and perhaps have a couple of early morning trains stopping there, along with a couple of early evening trains, for the NWF commuters?

As for Whitchurch, I don't think it has as big a passenger flow to Manchester as Nantwich has. I suspect it leans more towards Shrewsbury and Birmingham.

 

[zwk500]

A couple of questions relating to the above. Firstly, should Manchester to Shrewsbury/South Wales services make hourly calls at Nantwich each way, rather than the current hotchpotch of some trains calling there and some not? I am pretty sure there is a strong flow of passengers between Manchester and Nantwich, so is it time TfW included Nantwich calls in all of the long distance Manchester services?

Nantwich is large enough and close enough that I probably does deserve at least a regular hourly service to Crewe and Chester. The TfW service might not be the best option, but if it's the only regular hourly service through to Manchester it's worth having a look to see if it can accept the stops without messing up the timings elsewhere.

Secondly, is there a good case for reopening some stations on the Crewe to Chester line? I'm thinking Wardle (for the NWF farming plant there) and Beeston Castle & Tarporley (because of the tourism for Beeston & Peckforton Castles and because Tarporley is a small town and would benefit from a rail service to Crewe and Chester).

You'd only really want to put 1 station on this line, to avoid impacting on the services from London. Unfortunately neither Beeston nor Calveley have anywhere near enough population near to the line, meaning people would need to drive to the line. Once they're in the car, will the service be good enough to convince people not to drive direct to Chester or Crewe? I highly doubt it. The number of tourists that would come by train to Beeston castle is going to be statistically negligible, and certainly won't make a substantive positive impact on any business case.

 

[Polarbear]

Beeston & Tarporley station has been looked at on more than one occasion over the last 20 or so years, but it doesn't really stack up. Although Tarporley has grown, it's still a fair way from the line. There's hardly any other public transport in the area, (aside from the Arriva 84 Chester - Crewe bus) so most people would need to drive to access.

The tourist potential for the likes of Beeston Castle & other local attractions such as the Sandstone Trail wouldn't be anywhere near enough to justify rebuilding the staion from scratch. Then there's the issue of what services would call there. Almost certainly not Avanti so that leaves TFW on an hourly headway. Not really attractive enough to get punters out of their cars.

 

[The Planner]

Beeston is being looked at again now.

 

[6Gman]

Frankly the best solution for Nantwich would be to step up the stopper to hourly from 2-hourly (would need one extra unit and the relevant crew). Please do not slow the Manchester - Cardiff trains even more!
Except, perhaps, for a couple of stops for peak commuting.

On Crewe - Chester a station at Beeston Castle could be useful BUT it would need a fair old car park to be effective, and I'm not sure where it could be sited. The cattle market site would have been ideal, but has now been largely built on.

A station at Calveley is less convincing, especially if you're "selling" the idea by talking about serving the industrial sites at Wardle. They are a fair distance away and I'm pretty sure there is no footway along the A51.

 

[SeanM1997]

I think the logical solution maybe joining the hourly Crewe - Chester and two-hourly Crewe - Shrewsbury service together into an hourly Chester - Crewe - Shrewsbury service calling at all stations. I think an extra train set maybe required, however, it would improve connectivity to major towns in Cheshire and Shropshire which have a less than adequate service, partly due to who operates the franchises and being solely English routes.

The problem maybe the Heart of Wales services which continue north to Crewe, however, with adequate timing points, there is no reason why connections cannot be made.

The Manchester - South Wales service could still stop at Nantwich, Whitchurch and Wem during peak hours and early/late services.

Personally, I would prefer to see the Crewe-Shrewsbury stopping service taken over by West Midlands Rail given most of the services are in the West Midlands and the route is entirely in England, and extend the hourly Birmingham - Shrewsbury service to Crewe with an hourly service calling at all stations. However, I doubt this will happen anytime soon but would give Telford better links to the North of England and Scotland.

 

[yorksrob]

Definitely agree with Nantwich being served hourly. The town clearly justifies a decent interval service.

 

[jfollows]

I've got a friend who has moved back recently from New Zealand to Nantwich and therefore I'm thinking of visiting him for lunch sometime, however I was surprised how bad the service to Nantwich is so I'm seriously considering driving now. I don't mind changing in Crewe, it doesn't have to be a stop on the Manchester-Cardiff service (I agree, this service is tediously long enough as it is without slowing it down more) but I was surprised how few stopping trains there were in the gaps.

 

[6Gman]

I've got a friend who has moved back recently from New Zealand to Nantwich and therefore I'm thinking of visiting him for lunch sometime, however I was surprised how bad the service to Nantwich is so I'm seriously considering driving now. I don't mind changing in Crewe, it doesn't have to be a stop on the Manchester-Cardiff service (I agree, this service is tediously long enough as it is without slowing it down more) but I was surprised how few stopping trains there were in the gaps.

The service from Crewe to Nantwich is already basically hourly; it just alternates between an xx10 S Wales service and an xx20 stopper; bit more irregular t'other way I think.

As I've already suggested stepping up the stopper to hourly might work and allow a modest speeding up of the through trains, but at the cost of Manchester-Nantwich and Nantwich-beyond Salop direct links.

 

[Philip]

The service from Crewe to Nantwich is already basically hourly; it just alternates between an xx10 S Wales service and an xx20 stopper; bit more irregular t'other way I think.

As I've already suggested stepping up the stopper to hourly might work and allow a modest speeding up of the through trains, but at the cost of Manchester-Nantwich and Nantwich-beyond Salop direct links.

There are some gaps at Nantwich in the morning and late evening where there is no service for a couple of hours - southbound is bad up until late morning and northbound it is poor in the evening because the Manchester trains stop at Nantwich only a few minutes before the stopper, with nothing in the following hour.