National Express Coaches Discussion

[Edvid]

Popped round to see how Luton Airport was handling things after the car park fire and was intrigued to find Kings Ferry covering the car hire shuttles with Irizar i6s! Figured I'd ride them whilst the services of NETS are needed, especially as the services are free to all passengers...

 

[Martin2012]

One corridor I think its a shame isn't really bothered about is Bristol to the South Coast. The former 300 route to Southsea got withdrawn in early 2019 whilst the 302 to Oxford and Northampton and 333 to Bournemouth all got withdrawn in March 2020.

Surely there must at least be some level of demand for travel on that corridor even if it was only 1 or two services a day?

 

[markymark2000]

One corridor I think its a shame isn't really bothered about is Bristol to the South Coast. The former 300 route to Southsea got withdrawn in early 2019 whilst the 302 to Oxford and Northampton and 333 to Bournemouth all got withdrawn in March 2020.

Surely there must at least be some level of demand for travel on that corridor even if it was only 1 or two services a day?

Looking at a number of comments from drivers on the National Express Facebook Group, it would seem that it's a case of a few management not caring or listening to anyone so sadly it seems like this will continue for a while. Too much focus on a few select corridors rather than serving here, there and everywhere like they used to.

 

[gray1404]

I know what it does, I have already stated it above.
From Liverpool to Manchester, the 175 leaves 30 mins behind a 171 but gets into Manchester at the same time and it's often cheaper. Why would you get the 170/171 unless you had to?
From Manchester to Liverpool, the 175 runs ahead of the 171. It's 30 minutes quicker and often cheaper. Again, if making this journey, the 175 is a no brainer so it's likely to get used between Manchester and Liverpool.


Patronage on the 175 is extremely low, a lot of trips taking low figures between Llandudno and Liverpool. As you say, it is a placement trip and it is well known with Llew Jones and known amongst enthusiasts in North Wales that without the 540 (or formerly the 561) to London, the 175 simply wouldn't exist. I've seen numerous loading sheets too which show how dead the 175 is in North Wales.


Time. Because of the rules on driving hours, a driver can only drive for a maximum of 10 hours per day and based off the current service, 1 single driver does Llanwrst to Heston Services and that takes up a full day of driving hours. If the bus was to divert along the coast, it would need a second driver somewhere along the line and to be fair, the Coast road was never that busy and the service acted more like a local bus with it's 10-15 odd stops just between Talacre and Abergele.

08:45 Depot - Manchester 12:30 (3h45 drive)
14:00 Manchester - Norton Cannes 15:45 (1h45 drive)
16:35 Norton Cannes - London Victoria 20:00 (3h25 drive)
20:00 London Victoria - Heston Services 20:40 (40m drive)
This is 9h35 drive. Admittedly this doesn't take into account time when the driver is sat at stationary for longer than a minute (which counts as other work) or loading/unloading (again other work), however this time is just padding in case something goes wrong such as lots of slow moving traffic or diversions.

My apologies @markymark2000 if I offended you, certainly not my intention. I fear I might have given your opening line in bold above.

Thanks for explaining the diagram as I had not seen it before. The context is really useful. How do the timings work for the return journey? So I think all things considered then it is just about justifiable to keep the 175 running on the basis that the bus is going back to Llanwrst anyway and is well used between Manchester and Liverpool.

 

[markymark2000]

Thanks for explaining the diagram as I had. It seen this before and working times. The context is really useful. How to the timings work for the return journey?

Driver gets enough time for a standard 11 hours off
08:30ish Heston - Victoria Coach Station 09:30 (1h drive)
10:00 Victoria Coach Station - Norton Cannes 12:45 (2h45 drive)
13:35 Norton Cannes - Manchester 15:40 (2h 5 drive)
16:40 Manchester - Llanwrst 20:30 (3h 50 drive)

That puts it at 9h 40. I don't know which side they use at Heston which may increase/decrease the numbers slightly. Information based off trackers (for times leaving Heston) or NatEx timetables. Again, for the avoidance of doubt, this doesn't include time spent loading/unloading at intermediate points or being stationary for longer than a minute which would come under other work and so technically this is a high estimate of driving hours but has to be the guide that people go off when planning routes.

So I think all things considered then it is just about justifiable to keep the 175 running on the basis that the bus is going back to Llanwrst anyway and is well uswd between Manchester and Liverpool.

The 175 is justified but as I pointed out originally, if it wasn't for these trips on the 540, the 175 wouldn't exist as standalone, it's not well used. Between Manchester and Liverpool, NatEx would happily put passengers on the 170/171, even if those journeys are stupidly slow given the distance.

 

[gray1404]

Does the National Express website still allow you to book open jaw type journeys. Depart from one point and return to another?

Also is extended connection times possible to get the system to offer?

 

[route101]

One corridor I think its a shame isn't really bothered about is Bristol to the South Coast. The former 300 route to Southsea got withdrawn in early 2019 whilst the 302 to Oxford and Northampton and 333 to Bournemouth all got withdrawn in March 2020.

Surely there must at least be some level of demand for travel on that corridor even if it was

Does the National Express website still allow you to book open jaw type journeys. Depart from one point and return to another?

Also is extended connection times possible to get the system to offer?

I think its all single one way pricing now, could be wrong.

 

[Butts]

Nice to see they have opened a smart new Manned Ticketing Counter in Heathrow Central Bus Station so people don't just have to rely on machines.

 

[Deerfold]

I think its all single one way pricing now, could be wrong.

Returns can be cheaper but there's no open jaw returns, unfortunately.

 

[route101]

Do National Express still issue boarding pass style tickets?

 

[gray1404]

It's a shame it's not possible to use the 175 to connect onto the 540 given its the same coach. As it's split into 2 services there is not enough connection time in Manchester.

The result of this is a much extended journey changing at Liverpool. This applies in both directions.

 

[markymark2000]

It's a shame it's not possible to use the 175 to connect onto the 540 given its the same coach. As it's split into 2 services there is not enough connection time in Manchester.

The result of this is a much extended journey changing at Liverpool. This applies in both directions.

I'm not sure where you are seeing that but from London to Llandudno it's offering 11am 550 to Liverpool then 175 (so leaving 1 hour later from London but getting into Llandudno at the same time). Llandudno to London is offering 175 to Manchester, 30 min connection then the 13:00 540 (the one just before the Llew Jones trip), down to London arriving 18:30 (so same departure time, arrive 90 minutes earlier).

I don't think NatEx offer extended connection times however if you book the tickets separately, it would work, you'd also save money, who knew NatEx also has an overly confusing ticketing system that makes split tickets beneficial!

 

[Deerfold]

I don't think NatEx offer extended connection times however if you book the tickets separately, it would work, you'd also save money, who knew NatEx also has an overly confusing ticketing system that makes split tickets beneficial!

I did. Pre-Covid you could save about half the cost of the trip between Keighley to London by booking Keighley to Leeds and Leeds to London seperately. Even though it was the same vehicle there would have been a tiny possibility of delays on your journey meaning they'd terminate it at Leeds and put passengers at Leeds on another coach whilst anyone with a through ticket would have been allowed to catch a later coach. You would also have had to leave and reboard at Leeds, putting you at the back of the queue with less choice of seats. However the coach took so long between Keighley and Leeds that I'd always catch the train between Keighley and Leeds, saving an hour and paying an extra pound.

 

[Smethwickian]

Nice to see they have opened a smart new Manned Ticketing Counter in Heathrow Central Bus Station so people don't just have to rely on machines.

No they have not. The ticket counter which has appeared there is an independent agency (We Know London), given a concession by the airport company and
which sells car hire, sightseeing tours and, yes, coach tickets. But it can only do what an appointed NX agent can do, not everything an NX office can. For example We Know London is very fond of selling new tickets, with booking fees, to customers who would have got a better deal amending a ticket, where appropriate, with NX.

 

[Titfield]

One corridor I think its a shame isn't really bothered about is Bristol to the South Coast. The former 300 route to Southsea got withdrawn in early 2019 whilst the 302 to Oxford and Northampton and 333 to Bournemouth all got withdrawn in March 2020.

Surely there must at least be some level of demand for travel on that corridor even if it was only 1 or two services a day?

I doubt if the traffic flow is sufficient to justify a coach service between Bournemouth and Bristol.

The road route is so tedious by car that who knows how bad it would be by coach with its stops en route.

I suspect there would be virtually zero passenger traffic en route as it was this which condemned the Somerset and Dorset rail route to closure in 1966.

 

[matt_splat]

I doubt if the traffic flow is sufficient to justify a coach service between Bournemouth and Bristol.

The road route is so tedious by car that who knows how bad it would be by coach with its stops en route.

I suspect there would be virtually zero passenger traffic en route as it was this which condemned the Somerset and Dorset rail route to closure in 1966.

The old 333 could be full at times as could the 300 personally seeing loadings pre covid the 103 would have been better suited as Birmingham to Southampton with connections across the south coast via Bristol.

 

[Wilko82]

I used to use the 333 service quite often between Weymnouth and Bristol/Birmingham, and at times it was certainly well loaded south of Bristol. I do agree that the road isn't the best (especially the A37 between Bristol and Shepton Mallet) but the journey time was still competitive with the train. From memory the 333 between Weymouth and Bristol was scheduled to take about two and a half hours, which is only 10 minutes slower than what the quickest train service is due to take. However what I would say is that in the last year of this service (from March 2019 to the start of covid) when Parks took over the running of it the timings and arrival/departure times did start to become unreliable.

 

[dan5324]

Now back with owned ops at Wandsworth…for now

It’s actually at Victoria depot. It will be there for 6 months at least.

 

[Simon75]

It’s actually at Victoria depot. It will be there for 6 months at least.

Didn't know they had either a Victoria or Wandsworth depot (the only one in Wandsworth I know of is the RATP one)

 

[dan5324]

Didn't know they had either a Victoria or Wandsworth depot (the only one in Wandsworth I know of is the RATP one)

Victoria deport is just for drivers who sign on at Sammies which is located in arrivals. Wandsworth is a new depot located on an old builders yard on feathers wharf.

 

[route101]

I used to use the 333 service quite often between Weymnouth and Bristol/Birmingham, and at times it was certainly well loaded south of Bristol. I do agree that the road isn't the best (especially the A37 between Bristol and Shepton Mallet) but the journey time was still competitive with the train. From memory the 333 between Weymouth and Bristol was scheduled to take about two and a half hours, which is only 10 minutes slower than what the quickest train service is due to take. However what I would say is that in the last year of this service (from March 2019 to the start of covid) when Parks took over the running of it the timings and arrival/departure times did start to become unreliable.

You never know, it might come back! I thought it would have by now.

 

[Wilko82]

You never know, it might come back! I thought it would have by now.

I can't see it coming back, if Weymouth was to receive more NX services I would think the next in line would be a similar one to the old 315 which ran along the south coast.

 

[route101]

I can't see it coming back, if Weymouth was to receive more NX services I would think the next in line would be a similar one to the old 315 which ran along the south coast.

The 035 is the only service that serves Weymouth at the moment. I would have loved to ride the 315.

 

[asb]

The 035 is the only service that serves Weymouth at the moment. I would have loved to ride the 315.

The 315 ended up feeling like a bit of a slog by Plymouth, let alone arriving in Helston!

 

[Wilko82]

The 315 ended up feeling like a bit of a slog by Plymouth, let alone arriving in Helston!

It was a long route from end-to-end, something like 13 hours from Helston to Eastbourne, however in 2019 the route was cut to only run from Plymouth to Bournemouth which was operated by Parks using a single vehicle. It was an am departure from Plymouth before having the mandatory driver break etc in Bournemouth before making the return journey in the afternoon. More recently (summer 2021 I think?) there was a similar journey operated by Lucketts that went from Portsmouth to Plymouth. I can't remember the number or the times but believe it was a 2 vehicle operation with the driver and coach overnighting in Plymouth.

 

[Peter Philips]

It was a long route from end-to-end, something like 13 hours from Helston to Eastbourne, however in 2019 the route was cut to only run from Plymouth to Bournemouth which was operated by Parks using a single vehicle. It was an am departure from Plymouth before having the mandatory driver break etc in Bournemouth before making the return journey in the afternoon. More recently (summer 2021 I think?) there was a similar journey operated by Lucketts that went from Portsmouth to Plymouth. I can't remember the number or the times but believe it was a 2 vehicle operation with the driver and coach overnighting in Plymouth.

The 2021 version was daily route 190 from 21 June but it didn't last very long from memory.

 

[Smethwickian]

The 2021 version was daily route 190 from 21 June but it didn't last very long from memory.

Was it ever promoted or advertised?
Has anyone ever seen National Express advertise specific service reintroductions or improvements in local and regional media? For example when service 460 started serving Rugby a few months back, did anyone in the Rugby area see local publicity of any kind?
When the 788 was introduced from Peterborough to Heathrow a few weeks ago, would anyone in that fine Fenland city have the foggiest idea it had begun? Genuinely curious to know.

 

[Deerfold]

Was it ever promoted or advertised?
Has anyone ever seen National Express advertise specific service reintroductions or improvements in local and regional media? For example when service 460 started serving Rugby a few months back, did anyone in the Rugby area see local publicity of any kind?
When the 788 was introduced from Peterborough to Heathrow a few weeks ago, would anyone in that fine Fenland city have the foggiest idea it had begun? Genuinely curious to know.

Looks like they sent out a press release

New National Express service comes to Hitchin

National Express have launched the new 788 route, connecting Hitchin with Luton and Heathrow airports, Cambridge, and Peterborough.

www.thecomet.net

A new National Express service has launched, connecting Hitchin with Luton and Heathrow airports.

The 788 route launched on Friday, October 20, and provides up to six journeys a day in each direction between Peterborough's Queensgate Bus Station and Heathrow Airport.

The coaches also call at Cambridge Parkside, Cambridge Park and Ride, Hitchin, and Luton Airport.

For passengers travelling from Hitchin, the service takes around 20 minutes to reach Luton, and around one hour and 20 minutes to reach Heathrow.

The UK’s leading scheduled coach operator continues to invest in its network, providing a more convenient and affordable choice of public transport for passengers. In April this year National Express launched the 767 service between Peterborough, Cambridge and Stansted Airport.

John Boughton, commercial director at National Express, said: “We are thrilled to be able to add another new service from Peterborough and Cambridge, offering residents even better connectivity and choice of transport to the airport.

“More and more customers are turning to coach travel as an affordable, reliable and sustainable way to get around.

"Working closely with Heathrow and Luton Airports we are excited to be adding the 788 service to support the growing demand for coach travel to the airport.”

Nik Johnson, mayor of Cambridgeshire and Peterborough, said: “Huge thanks to our partners at National Express for recognising the value of connecting Cambridgeshire and Peterborough’s two great cities with the global hubs of London Heathrow and Luton airports – just goes to show how much demand and support there is for convenient and affordable alternatives to travelling by car.”

Matthew Wooll, route development lead for Heathrow Airport Surface Access Team, said: “This new National Express 788 service is a fantastic addition to Heathrow’s public transport network.

National Express launches new airport bus service starting from Peterborough

The service will begin from October 20.

www.peterboroughtoday.co.uk

National Express to run new service between Peterborough and Heathrow Airport
The service will begin from October 20.

National Express is set to launch a new service between Peterborough and Heathrow Airport this month.

The 788 route will be available from October 20 and run from Queensgate Bus Station.

The route is set to run six times a day, leaving at 0:40am, 3:05am. 11:50am, 1:40pm, 5:10pm, 8:40pm.

There will also be stops at Cambridge Parkside, Cambridge Park and Ride, Hitchin, Luton Airport, Heathrow Airport central bus station and the arrivals forecourt.

 

[frodshamfella]

I haven't been on a National Express coach for years, but recently I looked into it to get to London while the trains had strike issues. I expected to be able to get a service from Runcorn, which I'm sure was something available in the past. Not anymore, its basically from Liverpool City Centre and thats about it. Very little from Chester or Warrington to London either. Looks like the service has changed a lot since I last took the coach.

 

[Deerfold]

I haven't been on a National Express coach for years, but recently I looked into it to get to London while the trains had strike issues. I expected to be able to get a service from Runcorn, which I'm sure was something available in the past. Not anymore, its basically from Liverpool City Centre and thats about it. Very little from Chester or Warrington to London either. Looks like the service has changed a lot since I last took the coach.

When services resumed after being suspended for the pandemic, apart from the services between the largest cities, the network is very different, with fewer places served.