National Express Coaches Discussion

[route101]

Interestingly the London to Penzance service i did down to Exeter did a driver change at Sedgemoor (Weston super mare ish) services on the M5. The oncoming driver wanted to push on but the ex London driver had already announced a 20 min break. if theyd skipped the break it would have been almost on time at Exeter. I prefer Megabus services from london to Glasgow now because they dont take all the services breaks.

Certainly on overnight services I prefer no breaks. On NX you often get two on Glasgow/Edinburgh to London overnight services.

 

[dmncf]

News coming out today that Edwards Coaches have bought 68 new Scania Levante 3As and 10 VanHool Altano overdeckers for National Express work.

Edwards to add 86 new coaches for holidays and NatEx work - routeone

Edwards Coaches will add 82 new vehicles to its National Express and holidays fleets under a number of current orders, it has revealed.

www.route-one.net

£25.7 million is big spend. Do coach operators typically buy National Express and holiday fleet coaches outright, or is there likely to be a leasing company involved?

 

[Eyersey468]

£25.7 million is big spend. Do coach operators typically buy National Express and holiday fleet coaches outright, or is there likely to be a leasing company involved?

Depends on the operator, some buy them others lease them, though outright purchases within the bus industry are rare these days, most of the time vehicles are on some kind of finance, be it HP, some kind of operating lease etc

 

[route101]

I guess the new coaches are replacing Levante 2s. Haven't seen massive expansion with NX.

 

[tomoufc]

Before Covid, some coach fares used to undercut local bus fares. Also, because of their 7 day a week timetable, they offered early morning travel opportunities on Sunday. It was often cheaper to split fares at the nearest big city.

A few years ago, when I regularly travelled with NE, I used to split fares in Birmingham, for through Manchester to Oxford services, which was significantly cheaper. Unlike rail, though, I don’t think there are through ticket rights. For example, what if loadings meant using more than one coach for a given departure, with different stopping patterns between them?

 

[Eyersey468]

I guess the new coaches are replacing Levante 2s. Haven't seen massive expansion with NX.

I guess so or the oldest Levante 3s

 

[bussnapperwm]

Don't know if it's been mentioned but Dudleys NX stop is moving from Stand U in the Bus Station to Castle Gate Island (on Tipton Road) from this weekend

 

[Bungle965]

Don't know if it's been mentioned but Dudleys NX stop is moving from Stand U in the Bus Station to Castle Gate Island (on Tipton Road) from this weekend

Is there a reasoning for this?

 

[bussnapperwm]

Is there a reasoning for this?

Closure of the bus station for rebuilding

 

[gray1404]

I really can't understand the 175 rote which is so lightly loaded. I caught it on 1 January Liverpool to Abergele and there were a hand full of us on board as usual.

Returning on 3 January though it was packed when it arrived at Abergele. I took the last set of 2 seats when I boarded. Very busy. It really cleared out at Liverpool though.

Very inconsistent.

 

[route101]

I really can't understand the 175 rote which is so lightly loaded. I caught it on 1 January Liverpool to Abergele and there were a hand full of us on board as usual.

Returning on 3 January though it was packed when it arrived at Abergele. I took the last set of 2 seats when I boarded. Very busy. It really cleared out at Liverpool though.

Very inconsistent.

On my list to do that odd route. I think it gets a coach into position at Manchester.

I guess so or the oldest Levante 3s

Oldest Levante 3s are 68 plates.

 

[gray1404]

On my list to do that odd route. I think it gets a coach into position at Manchester.


Oldest Levante 3s are 68 plates.

I would recommend you do it when the lighter nights are here. It's not a nice journey in the dark compared to the daylight. Especially since it runs roughly a hour later now in the direction towards Wales.

Yes. It gets a coach into position in the morning to do a 540 run Manchester to London. Likewise, on the return back to Wales to the depot that coach has come up from London as a 540 earlier that day.

 

[route101]

I would recommend you do it when the lighter nights are here. It's not a nice journey in the dark compared to the daylight. Especially since it runs roughly a hour later now in the direction towards Wales.

Yes. It gets a coach into position in the morning to do a 540 run Manchester to London. Likewise, on the return back to Wales to the depot that coach has come up from London as a 540 earlier that day.

I live in Scotland so its an awkward one to do. Trying to ride the interesting X routes out there.

 

[Ken H]

pdf of 1996 National Express timetable on Timetable World free download

National Express Winter 1996 [Great Britain] – Timetable World

timetableworld.com

 

[H&I]

News coming out today that Edwards Coaches have bought 68 new Scania Levante 3As and 10 VanHool Altano overdeckers for National Express work.

Edwards to add 86 new coaches for holidays and NatEx work - routeone

Edwards Coaches will add 82 new vehicles to its National Express and holidays fleets under a number of current orders, it has revealed.

www.route-one.net

In a notable further development, Edwards has ordered 10 Van Hool Altano overdeck coaches, also for use on National Express work. Such a purchase marks a return to the National Express fold for Van Hool after many years away. Each of the Altanos will cost £480,000 and they are expected to arrive in June.

That is quite the departure from having everything be a Caetano Levante!

 

[PG]

That is quite the departure from having everything be a Caetano Levante!

Not the first time that NX tried a 'Standard Coach' - remember the Expressliner, a special version of the Mk3 Plaxton Paramount 3500 bodied Volvo B10M-60.

Express Travel Ltd Mk1 Expressliner Volvo B10M-60 NXI 9008 Carlisle Bus Station 1994 by LVA45, on Flickr

 

[route101]

Any update on any new NX routes ?

 

[JGurney]

I really can't understand the 175 rote which is so lightly loaded. I caught it on 1 January Liverpool to Abergele and there were a hand full of us on board as usual.

Returning on 3 January though it was packed when it arrived at Abergele. I took the last set of 2 seats when I boarded. Very busy. It really cleared out at Liverpool though.

Very inconsistent.

Thanks for highlighting the existence of that route, which I did not know of. It illustrates the frustrating nature of British coach services - theoretically great, in practice close to useless.

Let's say while staying with my daughter and her family near Birkenhead (something I often do), I fancy a day trip to Llandudno. It can be done by train: journey time of between 1h50m and 2h each way, fare £30 off-peak return. Or as I have now seen, National Express do Llandudno to Birkenhead in 1h30m each way and the return fare is £15.

An obvious choice - but no! National Express only run one morning journey starting at Llandudno and one evening journey back. No day trip to Llandudno is possible. Back to the slower train at twice the price or nothing.

Are there really more people in Llandudno who want a day trip to Birkenhead or Liverpool than there are people in Merseyside wanting day trips to Llandudno?

 

[markymark2000]

Thanks for highlighting the existence of that route, which I did not know of. It illustrates the frustrating nature of British coach services - theoretically great, in practice close to useless.

Let's say while staying with my daughter and her family near Birkenhead (something I often do), I fancy a day trip to Llandudno. It can be done by train: journey time of between 1h50m and 2h each way, fare £30 off-peak return. Or as I have now seen, National Express do Llandudno to Birkenhead in 1h30m each way and the return fare is £15.

An obvious choice - but no! National Express only run one morning journey starting at Llandudno and one evening journey back. No day trip to Llandudno is possible. Back to the slower train at twice the price or nothing.

Are there really more people in Llandudno who want a day trip to Birkenhead or Liverpool than there are people in Merseyside wanting day trips to Llandudno?

There is huge demand from the Gwynedd area to Liverpool (It works out that there is a coach day trip ran around every fortnight. If companies can sustain day trips almost every fortnight to Liverpool, bearing in mind these trips are just for shoppers, there must be huge demand when you take into account people staying overnight, seeing shows, shopping, generally commuting to other areas.

There is also huge summer trade from Manchester and Liverpool to the North Wales Coast. Huge things could be done here but NatEx's choice of refusing to advertise means hardly anyone knows about them to/from the North Wales Coast. They also drive past one of the major traffic generators for the North Wales Coast.... Chester. NatEx don't like anywhere in Wales bar the M4 corridor though and that is why sadly, nothing will improve.

 

[H&I]

I saw a Mercedes Benz Tourismo on National Express work yesterday at Golders Green.

 

[gray1404]

Thanks for highlighting the existence of that route, which I did not know of. It illustrates the frustrating nature of British coach services - theoretically great, in practice close to useless.

Let's say while staying with my daughter and her family near Birkenhead (something I often do), I fancy a day trip to Llandudno. It can be done by train: journey time of between 1h50m and 2h each way, fare £30 off-peak return. Or as I have now seen, National Express do Llandudno to Birkenhead in 1h30m each way and the return fare is £15.

An obvious choice - but no! National Express only run one morning journey starting at Llandudno and one evening journey back. No day trip to Llandudno is possible. Back to the slower train at twice the price or nothing.

Are there really more people in Llandudno who want a day trip to Birkenhead or Liverpool than there are people in Merseyside wanting day trips to Llandudno?

So basically there is a coach company in North Wales contracted to run a once daily 540 service from Manchester to London in the afternoon. Other coach companies run the other 540 services on behalf of National Express running throughout the day. So the coach and driver leaves the depot and goes to nearby Llandudno in the morning and runs as the 175 to Manchester. Then after a break the 540 to London.

Then the coach and driver stay overnight in London and the following morning run a 540 from London to Manchester. Then after a break the 175 runs in the afternoon from Manchester to Llandudno before returning to the nearby depot.

The 175 only runs due to the need to fulfill the 540 contract. Think of it as more of a depot run. The service is timed to fit in with other operations of the 540 rather then being designed to serve the 175 route market in its own right. Thus providing a North West to Wales service for those wishing to stay a couple of days like myself visiting family and a day trip opportunity to Liverpool for people from North Wales.

It also has to fit in with constraints of driving hours. Hence not being able to service everywhere. As the driver still has drive to or from London to consider.

 

[Martin2012]

I thought NX had moved away from diagrams where the drivers had to overnight? My understanding was that most if not all of the cross country routes now seem to terminate at Birmingham with the vehicles and operators returning to their home depot on the same day. I have mixed feelings about this. In some ways I'd say its probably allowing the vehicles and drivers to be better utilised but in other ways I feel its put NX at a disadvantage compared to Megabus or Flixbus. For e.g. if heading from Bristol to Leeds, Megabus and Flixbus both offer through journeys whilst NX passengers are required to change which adds to journey times.

 

[Eyersey468]

I thought NX had moved away from diagrams where the drivers had to overnight? My understanding was that most if not all of the cross country routes now seem to terminate at Birmingham with the vehicles and operators returning to their home depot on the same day. I have mixed feelings about this. In some ways I'd say its probably allowing the vehicles and drivers to be better utilised but in other ways I feel its put NX at a disadvantage compared to Megabus or Flixbus. For e.g. if heading from Bristol to Leeds, Megabus and Flixbus both offer through journeys whilst NX passengers are required to change which adds to journey times.

There are some overnighters on the network but nowhere near as many as there were

 

[markymark2000]

I thought NX had moved away from diagrams where the drivers had to overnight? My understanding was that most if not all of the cross country routes now seem to terminate at Birmingham with the vehicles and operators returning to their home depot on the same day. I have mixed feelings about this. In some ways I'd say its probably allowing the vehicles and drivers to be better utilised but in other ways I feel its put NX at a disadvantage compared to Megabus or Flixbus. For e.g. if heading from Bristol to Leeds, Megabus and Flixbus both offer through journeys whilst NX passengers are required to change which adds to journey times.

NatEx did get rid of most of the duties which require drivers to stay overnight, they didn't get rid of them all though. The cynic in me says that the change to services wasn't just the savings from less hotels but also it gives Digbeth Coach Station a huge boost in footfall so benefits the retailers in there and they can make a ton of money off the toilet charges.

I do agree with you though, it has massively put NatEx at a disadvantage to the other operators. It certainly puts me off.

 

[Mike99]

I if my memory hasn't failed me too much, (I think an East Yorkshire NX working) would run from London Victoria to Southampton as 032 service and then overnight at the Spinnaker Motel/Hotel at Bursledon in Hampshire, c 2005-2007, the coach left tidily down the side of the building overnight.
I also often spoke to a Wessex of Bristol driver who would work up to London Victoria and then form service 023 to Hastings and Bexhill, the vehicle would overnight in Silverhill depot Hastings and the driver would be in a local hotel. The driver would phone ahead c 1998/1999 and reserve a dinner in the canteen. I think maybe Selwyns or one of the other North West companies got the duty after Wessex working a 540 down to London Victoria.

 

[Titfield]

Back in the early 80s Shamrock and Rambler (part of National Travel South West and then Hants and Dorset) ran the 705/6 route which was a mid afternoon service from Bournemouth to Gravesend via Catford. Run light back from Gravesend to Catford. Overnight. Then next morning light Catford to Gravesend then Gravesend to Bournemouth via Catford. I think the vehicle was washed and refuelled at Catford once the driver had signed off for his overnighter. S and R also did a Bournemouth - Cheltenham, INTERCHANGE and then Cheltenham - Portsmouth overnight with a reverse working the next day. (This may have been a Royal Blue Bournemouth depot working that S and R picked up when Royal Blue operations were cut back in the 70s).

 

[route101]

There are some overnighters on the network but nowhere near as many as there were

Surely the overnight services to and from London and Birmingham?

 

[Smethwickian]

Surely the overnight services to and from London and Birmingham?

Posts 892-896 were specifically discussing driver duties involving an overnight stay away from base - that kind of 'overnighter'.

To add to current ones, I believe Aston-based drivers on the 409 overnight in Aberystwyth?

 

[Eyersey468]

Surely the overnight services to and from London and Birmingham?

Sorry I meant the driver staying away from base overnight

 

[Edvid]

A Yutong GTe14 will be trialled for four weeks on the London-Stansted routes, starting next week.

National Express has announced it will be the inaugural UK scheduled coach operator to initiate trials with Yutong’s GTe14 tri-axle battery-electric coach.

The 53-seat vehicle is set to commence operations next week following driver training and will be deployed on the high-frequency routes connecting Stansted Airport with London over four weeks.

The GTe14 is equipped with a 140kW charger and makes use of renewable electricity sources at Stansted Airport for charging, meaning it is capable of running up to 21 hours a day. With a standard battery capacity of 422kWh it offers an estimated range of 200 miles, potentially saving up to 160 tonnes of CO2e annually on National Express’s airport routes.

This trial follows a successful 2020 pilot of Yutong’s TCe12 model on National Express’s A9 service. The GTe14’s enhanced capacity and improved charging technology will undergo testing in real-world conditions, providing data and feedback from both drivers and passengers.

Tom Berry, Zero Emissions Vehicle Specialist for Mobico Group, says: “We know National Express’s scale and ambition can help drive innovation in the coach market as we work towards our goal of having a UK coach fleet that produces zero emissions at the tailpipe.

“We are grateful to Yutong for allowing us to be the first UK scheduled coach operator to trial the newest state-of-the-art battery-electric coach, and we’re looking forward to testing the GTe14 model on our high-frequency services between Stansted Airport and London over the coming weeks.”

Ian Downie, Head of Yutong UK, highlights the proven reliability and global footprint of Yutong’s electric vehicles, with over 180,000 units operating worldwide. “Pelican’s continued investment in the UK coaching industry is evidenced by this launch of our new GTe14 tri-axle electric coach, which is heading to National Express as the first operator to trial the vehicle in service over the coming weeks. The GTe14 joins the two-axle TCe12 as the only zero tailpipe emission coaches available in the UK,” he adds.