National Express service withdrawals?

[PTR 444]

I have just stumbled across a post on a local bus blog stating that NX routes 032, 205 and 206 are being axed. I am not sure whether this is pure speculation or not however, so it would be good if someone with more knowledge could clarify whether this is going to be happening for real or not.

If this is true, it make getting from the South Coast to London's main airports much more of a struggle. There is speculation that the 035 is being diverted to serve Southampton and Heathrow, but this will make the journey from Poole to London much much longer. I wonder whether this is part of much wider route axing exercise as NX struggle with the impact of Covid-19 on their business?

 

[Bletchleyite]

If this is true, it make getting from the South Coast to London's main airports much more of a struggle. There is speculation that the 035 is being diverted to serve Southampton and Heathrow, but this will make the journey from Poole to London much much longer. I wonder whether this is part of much wider route axing exercise as NX struggle with the impact of Covid-19 on their business?

Not just COVID, I suspect, but also that Flixbus is eyeing up the UK, and it's much more of a threat to NatEx than to Megabus, I'd say.

Other than their forays into rail, Flix very rarely loses any competition.

 

[Dorsetbus]

I have just stumbled across a post on a local bus blog stating that NX routes 032, 205 and 206 are being axed. I am not sure whether this is pure speculation or not however, so it would be good if someone with more knowledge could clarify whether this is going to be happening for real or not.

If this is true, it make getting from the South Coast to London's main airports much more of a struggle. There is speculation that the 035 is being diverted to serve Southampton and Heathrow, but this will make the journey from Poole to London much much longer. I wonder whether this is part of much wider route axing exercise as NX struggle with the impact of Covid-19 on their business?

Do you have a reference for this?

 

[carlberry]

I have just stumbled across a post on a local bus blog stating that NX routes 032, 205 and 206 are being axed. I am not sure whether this is pure speculation or not however, so it would be good if someone with more knowledge could clarify whether this is going to be happening for real or not.

If this is true, it make getting from the South Coast to London's main airports much more of a struggle. There is speculation that the 035 is being diverted to serve Southampton and Heathrow, but this will make the journey from Poole to London much much longer. I wonder whether this is part of much wider route axing exercise as NX struggle with the impact of Covid-19 on their business?

Currently nothing is running and July's routes are only a small framework. I'd suggest (if true) this might be part of whatever the next step will be to try to get more of the network running with some routes missing. Whether they'll come back at some point will depend as much on external factors such as the amount of traffic at airports and what load factors are allowed on coaches. However i'd see it more as a case of the 035 starting to run again at some point.

 

[Dorsetbus]

Currently nothing is running and July's routes are only a small framework. I'd suggest (if true) this might be part of whatever the next step will be to try to get more of the network running with some routes missing. Whether they'll come back at some point will depend as much on external factors such as the amount of traffic at airports and what load factors are allowed on coaches. However i'd see it more as a case of the 035 starting to run again at some point.

I do believe this is all about to start again in july.

 

[Flange Squeal]

The National Express website seems to back up the 205 and 206 not returning (at least not imminently), but the 032 is shown and accepting bookings for four trips each way from 1st July. That said, the route map shows both the 032 and 035 running via Heathrow, but no mention of that in the timetables.

 

[sk688]

no sign of the Bristol - Northampton via Bath 302 service either , has that gone as well ?

 

[Smethwickian]

There is only a skeleton network to begin with from July 1 but other routes and destinations may return as demand increases and they are assessed to be viable.
I understand the company is monitoring enquiries and searches on its website to help gauge the level of interest in reintroducing links. So for example Hull is not on the initial map but if thousands of people try searching for journeys from Hull the network planners will be aware of this.
Airport services will be ramped up in consultation with airports and key airlines with which NX has ticket sale arrangements as flights increase.

 

[carlberry]

no sign of the Bristol - Northampton via Bath 302 service either , has that gone as well ?

All services went on the 5th April. A few are being brought back in July and more will be brought back over time. The full network isnt going to be back until people are encouraged to use public transport again and all seats can be sold. That could be some time.

 

[matt_splat]

the network is in relaunch mode so what we are seeing is a more advanced Christmas timetable i would say its more like a new years day with a difference,

airport services will take longer to take off due to the fact air travel for the time being is not really being majorly encouraged, it does sound like we may see a differnt network to before in the future but it sounds like it will be an exciting network i look forward to seeing where the future goes but it sounds very promising

 

[Eyersey468]

The whole network is being reviewed as far as I know.

 

[cainebj]

I'm struggling to find it now, but there was a list of service cuts quietly announced in February time, due to cease at the end of March but COVID got there first. The service from Whitehaven to London via the Lake District, Lancaster and Preston was one of the services cut.

 

[Titfield]

The history of services from Bmth to London since the late 1970s is interesting. I think I have got this right but stand to be corrected.
(1) The services started from Bmth and were only extended back to Poole IIRC late 70s early 80s.
(2) Heathrow Airport was added as a stop on the service to Victoria in the 80s but they have also operated Poole Bmth LHR LGW.
(3) One of the challenges to making the Bmth - London Victoria service attractive to customers is to keep the overall journey time down as much as possible.
(4) Stopping at Southampton and / or LHR doesnt help in that respect.
(5) The 515? Timesaver (effectively a rapide but no onboard hostess) service in the early 80s had some appeal as it operated Bmth Ringwood Victoria only. IIRC 2 hrs 15 mins?
(6) There doesnt appear to be enough traffic to justify Bmth LGW on its own - it needs other traffic e.g. lhr to make it viable.
(7) The stop at Hammersmith seems to have been added to enable passengers to access the tube network rather than havng to sit on the coach all the way to Victoria.

 

[route101]

The history of services from Bmth to London since the late 1970s is interesting. I think I have got this right but stand to be corrected.
(1) The services started from Bmth and were only extended back to Poole IIRC late 70s early 80s.
(2) Heathrow Airport was added as a stop on the service to Victoria in the 80s but they have also operated Poole Bmth LHR LGW.
(3) One of the challenges to making the Bmth - London Victoria service attractive to customers is to keep the overall journey time down as much as possible.
(4) Stopping at Southampton and / or LHR doesnt help in that respect.
(5) The 515? Timesaver (effectively a rapide but no onboard hostess) service in the early 80s had some appeal as it operated Bmth Ringwood Victoria only. IIRC 2 hrs 15 mins?
(6) There doesnt appear to be enough traffic to justify Bmth LGW on its own - it needs other traffic e.g. lhr to make it viable.
(7) The stop at Hammersmith seems to have been added to enable passengers to access the tube network rather than havng to sit on the coach all the way to Victoria.

I find it interesting that the destinations on the network closer to London survive , such as Dover , Southampton and Ramsgate etc. What is the market for them? The train is more freq and quicker.

 

[Thomas31]

I don’t see passenger numbers picking up for a while. Let’s be honest, would you really want to be stuck on a coach for hours on end with someone potentially coughing and spluttering? At least on a train if you feel uncomfortable you can change carriages or at the worst get off the train and wait for the next one.

 

[Mwanesh]

Its just a skeleton network for the next few weeks months. When figures go up the whole network will be back in place.

 

[Titfield]

I find it interesting that the destinations on the network closer to London survive , such as Dover , Southampton and Ramsgate etc. What is the market for them? The train is more freq and quicker.

When I worked for National Express late 70s earlier 80s we had two core markets:
Students and Senior Citizens because we were very much cheaper than rail
A real attraction for Senior Citizens was where we offered a direct (no change service) because there was a genuine dislike of / anxiety at changing. If they had to change seniors preferred for example changing at London Victoria Coach Station because it was one station rather than say by train when they would have to cross london by tube or taxi.

 

[Cesarcollie]

Its just a skeleton network for the next few weeks months. When figures go up the whole network will be back in place.

Do you have a source for this assertion please?

 

[cainebj]

There was this thread earlier in the year showing a few of the cancellations, but I seem to remember hearing about more.

More National Express destinations axed

More timetable changes on the National Express coach network from March 30th. Services 481/484 between Suffolk, Essex and London are revised and streamlined. Service 541 and seasonal service 543 are withdrawn in the Lake District. That means all of the following are wiped off the NX coach...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[freetoview33]

I think the whole network needs redrawing anyway so this covid19 might be a good thing for the network overall.

 

[Titfield]

I think the whole network needs redrawing anyway so this covid19 might be a good thing for the network overall.

What changes do you suggest?

 

[Titfield]

The history of services from Bmth to London since the late 1970s is interesting. I think I have got this right but stand to be corrected.
(1) The services started from Bmth and were only extended back to Poole IIRC late 70s early 80s.
(2) Heathrow Airport was added as a stop on the service to Victoria in the 80s but they have also operated Poole Bmth LHR LGW.
(3) One of the challenges to making the Bmth - London Victoria service attractive to customers is to keep the overall journey time down as much as possible.
(4) Stopping at Southampton and / or LHR doesnt help in that respect.
(5) The 515? Timesaver (effectively a rapide but no onboard hostess) service in the early 80s had some appeal as it operated Bmth Ringwood Victoria only. IIRC 2 hrs 15 mins?
(6) There doesnt appear to be enough traffic to justify Bmth LGW on its own - it needs other traffic e.g. lhr to make it viable.
(7) The stop at Hammersmith seems to have been added to enable passengers to access the tube network rather than havng to sit on the coach all the way to Victoria.

Just remembered the timesaver service was 719. Bmth Ringwood London Victoria. 0800 from Bmth arrive VIC 1015

 

[route101]

Certainly on the Scotland services , they came up against Megabus , the NX routes started to concentrate on London/ Birmingham.
Inverness was dropped.

 

[freetoview33]

What changes do you suggest?

Well without being able to see the pre covid 19 timetables again it is hard to say.
But a few things I've have had issues with in the past are. Going from Birmingham back to Bristol, there were 4 coaches all leaving around 12ish (I think might have been 1!) then nothing for 2/3 hours! It made it hard in Birmingham to see what bay actually had the right coach and resulted in 4 half empty coaches doing the same trip (One was direct, one called at Gloucester one at Cheltenham and I think one might have been a Worcester stop) But why all the same time??

Also a coach back to Bristol from Birmingham after about 11pm would (In normal times) be a very useful service! But the last coach is at 9/10pm.

Another thing I had quite a few years back (So not 100% sure if the same problem is about now) was trying to get back from Cardiff to Bristol after Midnight. The first coach I could book was a service at 2am. But there was another Airport service leaving at midnight that called at Bristol but you weren't allowed to book it for that leg of the trip (Even though the coach was all but empty) I had to do it 2 nights In a row, 1 night the driver didn't let us on the midnight coach so had to wait until 2, the next night the driver rang control and we were let on the midnight coach. But still a mad case that should never have been.

There were some more bits like this but without looking at tt's it is hard to remember exacts.

 

[richw]

I’ve heard Solent coaches have 15 vehicles on order for 032 033 205 & 206, with go south coast losing the contract. These will restart later in the year, and not on the initial simplified timetable.
Solent coaches being owned by Lucketts, who are owned by NX effectively makes it being in house

 

[carlberry]

Well without being able to see the pre covid 19 timetables again it is hard to say.
But a few things I've have had issues with in the past are. Going from Birmingham back to Bristol, there were 4 coaches all leaving around 12ish (I think might have been 1!) then nothing for 2/3 hours! It made it hard in Birmingham to see what bay actually had the right coach and resulted in 4 half empty coaches doing the same trip (One was direct, one called at Gloucester one at Cheltenham and I think one might have been a Worcester stop) But why all the same time??

Are they actually coaches to Bristol? I suspect they're just passing through Bristol to other destinations. It's a lot better now then it was in the 1960s/1970s where Bristol to Birmingham by coach was unusual and Bristol to Cheltenham was nothing most of the day then 20 just before lunchtime.

Also a coach back to Bristol from Birmingham after about 11pm would (In normal times) be a very useful service! But the last coach is at 9/10pm.

The market just isn't going to be there, even Cross Country stop at 10pm.

Another thing I had quite a few years back (So not 100% sure if the same problem is about now) was trying to get back from Cardiff to Bristol after Midnight. The first coach I could book was a service at 2am. But there was another Airport service leaving at midnight that called at Bristol but you weren't allowed to book it for that leg of the trip (Even though the coach was all but empty) I had to do it 2 nights In a row, 1 night the driver didn't let us on the midnight coach so had to wait until 2, the next night the driver rang control and we were let on the midnight coach. But still a mad case that should never have been.

As the airport coaches (in normal times) are the money makers they're going to make sure the seats are available for turn up and go passengers. Again I cant see Natex suddenly deciding that providing more late night coaches is suddenly going to be a money spinner for them, especially if they're getting more competition on their core services.

 

[freetoview33]

Are they actually coaches to Bristol? I suspect they're just passing through Bristol to other destinations. It's a lot better now then it was in the 1960s/1970s where Bristol to Birmingham by coach was unusual and Bristol to Cheltenham was nothing most of the day then 20 just before lunchtime.

The market just isn't going to be there, even Cross Country stop at 10pm.

As the airport coaches (in normal times) are the money makers they're going to make sure the seats are available for turn up and go passengers. Again I cant see Natex suddenly deciding that providing more late night coaches is suddenly going to be a money spinner for them, especially if they're getting more competition on their core services.

I think most continued to Devon/Cornwall but still I think timings need to be looked at to provide a more regular service over the common sections e.g Birmingham to Bristol, because as said most of the coaches were just totally empty so there must be a better way, to run the service.

I think there would be for one coach possibly from Birmingham International at 23:00 via Birmingham City Centre - Bristol (In normal times, there are many events that finish just after 10pm that forces people to stay in Birmingham overnight)

It was odd as both were airport coaches just 1 did allow trips between Cardiff and Bristol and One didn't, (Leaving a big gap in services) you would have thought the midnight departure from Cardiff to Gatwick (arriving Gatwick at Half 4) would have been quieter than the one getting into Gatwick at half 6.

 

[darloscott]

It was odd as both were airport coaches just 1 did allow trips between Cardiff and Bristol and One didn't, (Leaving a big gap in services) you would have thought the midnight departure from Cardiff to Gatwick (arriving Gatwick at Half 4) would have been quieter than the one getting into Gatwick at half 6.

I'd reckon it would be the other way around. It leaves Cardiff at a more reasonable time plus gets into Gatwick ready for the first wave of flights 6am-7am, arriving at half 6 would not be much use to anyone as most flights have left by that time. The second wave won't be until 12-1pm - bar the transatlantic's but I doubt you'd do one of them straight off an overnight coach, more likely to stay overnight.

 

[freetoview33]

I'd reckon it would be the other way around. It leaves Cardiff at a more reasonable time plus gets into Gatwick ready for the first wave of flights 6am-7am, arriving at half 6 would not be much use to anyone as most flights have left by that time. The second wave won't be until 12-1pm - bar the transatlantic's but I doubt you'd do one of them straight off an overnight coach, more likely to stay overnight.

Whatever way the 2am from Cardiff was much busier than the 12am which had only a handful of people until Bristol.

 

[carlberry]

I think most continued to Devon/Cornwall but still I think timings need to be looked at to provide a more regular service over the common sections e.g Birmingham to Bristol, because as said most of the coaches were just totally empty so there must be a better way, to run the service.

Balencing out the timings on Bristol-Brimingham isnt a major requirement. Most of the cross country stuff through Birmingham is providing as many different interchange possibilities as possible which was the function it inherited from Cheltenham many years ago. In the 1980s/1990s there was a bit more effort to have more interchange times with fewer destinations however traffic has reduced since then and Megabus has taken some of the market so it's more and more like Cheltenham again with coaches that have to meet up around mid day because they have to leave the outer terminals at a reasonable time and get back at a reasonable time.