National Express Split ticketing

[Deerfold]

Just looking at a journey in February on National Express.

A through fare is £10.00

However if I split at Leeds I'm given fares of £5.00 and £1.50 on the same service.

Is there any reason I couldn't get the two separate fares? If I did should I present both on boarding or depart and reboard at Leeds?

 

[Lrd]

Show both to the driver when boarding so that when you get to Leeds he isn't expecting one more passenger and thinking you're a no show. He could potentially let someone else on by either letting them catch an earlier coach or selling them a ticket but then they won't have a seat.

 

[radamfi]

I have been doing that for over 10 years. This anomaly exists because Funfares are only available between major destinations but not on the full journey. I show both tickets on boarding. Drivers are sometimes curious why you have done it but never had a problem.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I have been doing that for over 10 years. This anomaly exists because Funfares are only available between major destinations but not on the full journey. I show both tickets on boarding. Drivers are sometimes curious why you have done it but never had a problem.

There's not really any way they could prevent that kind of split ticketing. If it came to it, you could leave the coach and reboard. It's not like a train where they could, if they wanted to make it awkward, insist that you left the station by introducing some kind of compostage requirement and having the machines away from platform level.

 

[pemma]

I once caught a NX coach between Manchester and Edinburgh on a service which originates in the South West. Strangely an empty coach turned up with a destination display showing the same service number and 'Glasgow' on the destination display. Then a coach originating from the South West turned up showing Edinburgh on the destination display. It was then explained that due to high demand all Glasgow passengers were to travel on the duplicate service (even ones who had boarded the Edinburgh coach before Manchester.) I'm not sure what would have happened if you'd had a Manchester-Glasgow and a Glasgow-Edinburgh ticket.

 

[radamfi]

There's not really any way they could prevent that kind of split ticketing. If it came to it, you could leave the coach and reboard. It's not like a train where they could, if they wanted to make it awkward, insist that you left the station by introducing some kind of compostage requirement and having the machines away from platform level.

The Stagecoach service between Bristol and Plymouth, which sells walk on tickets as well as selling journeys through Megabus, has the following text on the timetable:

"a through ticket must be bought for the full length of your journey
if you wish to break your journey, you must get off and catch a later coach"

https://www.stagecoachbus.com/media...st falcon/falcon web 031216 revised.pdf?la=en

 

[Bletchleyite]

But that is a refusal of ticket sale (that comes down to the fact that any business can refuse anyone service for any or no reason other than protected characteristics i.e. race discrimination etc) - if the ticket was already sold it would be much more difficult to enforce (probably come under "unreasonable T&C"[1] if challenged in Court).

And that's even in the context that I don't believe the railway should[2] have to honour split tickets if the first train is late etc.

[1] I don't think it's unreasonable to say that if you've split tickets you have to alight, queue again and reboard the same coach, though. You have purchased two journeys - I don't see why you should not be able to take them separately.

[2] Though according to industry documentation it presently *does* do so, which it of course is welcome to choose to do - I just don't think it should *have* to.

 

[exile]

But that is a refusal of ticket sale (that comes down to the fact that any business can refuse anyone service for any or no reason other than protected characteristics i.e. race discrimination etc) - if the ticket was already sold it would be much more difficult to enforce (probably come under "unreasonable T&C"[1] if challenged in Court).

And that's even in the context that I don't believe the railway should[2] have to honour split tickets if the first train is late etc.

[1] I don't think it's unreasonable to say that if you've split tickets you have to alight, queue again and reboard the same coach, though. You have purchased two journeys - I don't see why you should not be able to take them separately.

[2] Though according to industry documentation it presently *does* do so, which it of course is welcome to choose to do - I just don't think it should *have* to.

Don't agree with that at all. If I want to buy an advance ticket I HAVE to split my journey as there are no tickets covering the entire journey to/from my local station. Why should I be penalised?

 

[Deerfold]

I have been doing that for over 10 years. This anomaly exists because Funfares are only available between major destinations but not on the full journey. I show both tickets on boarding. Drivers are sometimes curious why you have done it but never had a problem.

It's not as simple as that - I was quite surprised to find funfares are now available for the whole journey - but it's still cheaper to split. I'd never split before as the fares for the first part of the journey are normally only slightly less than the rail fare for that part with a journey time twice as long.

 

[radamfi]

It's not as simple as that - I was quite surprised to find funfares are now available for the whole journey - but it's still cheaper to split. I'd never split before as the fares for the first part of the journey are normally only slightly less than the rail fare for that part with a journey time twice as long.

I just checked my usual route (Rochdale to London) and it is still way more expensive with one ticket compared to splitting in Manchester.

 

[Martin2012]

Back in summer 2012 I did some work at Heathrow Airport in connection with the olympics which involved a few NX journeys.

The cost of a journey on the direct Bristol to Heathrow service was stupidly high. Something like £30.00-£40.00. However a journey from Bath to Heathrow was in the region of £15.00-£20.00 including on journeys which involved a change of coach in Bristol

 

[radamfi]

Back in summer 2012 I did some work at Heathrow Airport in connection with the olympics which involved a few NX journeys.

The cost of a journey on the direct Bristol to Heathrow service was stupidly high. Something like £30.00-£40.00. However a journey from Bath to Heathrow was in the region of £15.00-£20.00 including on journeys which involved a change of coach in Bristol

Bristol to Heathrow is a dedicated airport service which have high fares. However, Bath to London is a regular service which happens to stop at Heathrow. So they can't charge silly fares from Bath to Heathrow, otherwise people would just book to London and get off early.

 

[Martin2012]

Thanks for the explanation

It makes sense why the fares would differ between the two services but was rather suprised a journey which involved a change onto an airport service at Bristol would offer lower fares.

 

[Deerfold]

Bristol to Heathrow is a dedicated airport service which have high fares. However, Bath to London is a regular service which happens to stop at Heathrow. So they can't charge silly fares from Bath to Heathrow, otherwise people would just book to London and get off early.

Although they might struggle to get their luggage off.
And have fun doing it the other way round.

 

[radamfi]

Although they might struggle to get their luggage off.
And have fun doing it the other way round.

NX allow you to get off early or board at a later stop, but not with Funfares. If NX started to clamp down on this behaviour, it would look too passenger unfriendly if they knew what the fare was to London because it is the same coach. You could argue that issue already exists with Funfares, because there are no Funfares to Heathrow, but NX would have the defence that Funfares are only available between certain stops.

Undoubtedly people probably get off at Heathrow with Funfares, even with luggage. Going the other way people might get the tube to Victoria to avoid issues.

 

[Bletchleyite]

NX allow you to get off early or board at a later stop, but not with Funfares.

For clarification, you can't necessarily board at a later stop as your seat may have been sold to a walk-up passenger.

 

[TUC]

The Stagecoach service between Bristol and Plymouth, which sells walk on tickets as well as selling journeys through Megabus, has the following text on the timetable:

"a through ticket must be bought for the full length of your journey
if you wish to break your journey, you must get off and catch a later coach"

https://www.stagecoachbus.com/media...st falcon/falcon web 031216 revised.pdf?la=en

How could that work in practice though? If you ticket is only valid for the journey in question, how could a passenger get off and catch a later coach?

 

[anme]

Don't agree with that at all. If I want to buy an advance ticket I HAVE to split my journey as there are no tickets covering the entire journey to/from my local station. Why should I be penalised?

But advance tickets already penalise people who can't book in advance. Why shouldn't we penalise you as well?

The point of advance tickets is to maximise revenue. It is not to make your journey cheaper.

 

[Bletchleyite]

How could that work in practice though? If you ticket is only valid for the journey in question, how could a passenger get off and catch a later coach?

I don't think that's what it's saying. It's saying, badly, that you can't split tickets - if you want to use two tickets for your journey, you have to use two different (subsequent) coaches.

 

[talltim]

I don't think that's what it's saying. It's saying, badly, that you can't split tickets - if you want to use two tickets for your journey, you have to use two different (subsequent) coaches.

IT doesn't say that at all tho. The whole point is that you don't want to break your journey...

 

[radamfi]

The Stagecoach service between Plymouth and Bristol accepts free passes for some sections but not others. So presumably they want to stop people buying a ticket for the bit not covered by the free pass.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Stagecoach service between Plymouth and Bristol accepts free passes for some sections but not others. So presumably they want to stop people buying a ticket for the bit not covered by the free pass.

This might well be to do with how reimbursement works - they possibly get nothing for a continuous journey across the boundaries.

 

[anme]

IT doesn't say that at all tho. The whole point is that you don't want to break your journey...

I think it's saying that if you don't want to break your journey, you can't split tickets. You have to buy one ticket covering your whole journey on that coach.

 

[pdq]

I did a NEx journey from Tenby to Birmingham last year. Full price single was £40, but by splitting at Swansea - with a Funfare on the Swansea to Birmingham leg - it came down to £14. There was no comment at all from the driver when I got on. I just showed both tickets at the same time.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think it's saying that if you don't want to break your journey, you can't split tickets. You have to buy one ticket covering your whole journey on that coach.

Yes, that's what it intends to say.


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