National Rail tickets on Elizabeth Line & Exits

[james-tyler]

Hi,

I am buying a return ticket from Luton (Thameslink) to Slough for work twice a month for which I change at Farringdon, very conveniently onto the Elizabeth Line to Slough.

A problem I’ve got though is upon my return, I want to get off at Bond Street to meet a friend for a drink and then wander up to St Pancras to catch the train back to Luton. I’ve been refused exit at Bond Street on this ticket though being told I cannot break my journey on the EL. (With the Thameslink stretch I have no issue doing this, alighting and re-boarding at St Pancras a number of times issue free).

The only solution I’ve got currently is to travel all the way to Farringdon, walk upstairs to the Ticket Validator where I can tap my debit card, and then catch a westward EL train back to Bond St where I can tap out hassle free and be charged an extra £2.80.

Am I being stupid? Is there a better way? At Paddington there is only gates that I know of so I can’t jump off there to ‘tap on’ a journey I’m already paying for. TIA

 

[transportphoto]

In theory, completely valid. In practice, difficult as you summarise.

TfL like to see the Elizabeth Line Core as the Underground when it comes to tickets. The balance has never quite been found.

This is the internal guidance

For travel starting outside the London Zones, tickets need to be valid for travel made on LU or Elizabeth line central section in the Zones from the interchange with National Rail. For example, tickets will need to cover all Zones travelled in, starting from the Zone where the interchange from National Rail occurs. In line with existing practice on LU, a break of journey will not be permitted when using a paper ticket on the new central section of the Elizabeth line. Tickets with the (+) Cross London marker are valid for interchange using part or all of the central section of the Elizabeth line between Paddington and Abbey Wood, in the same way as other Tube services. Break of journey is not permitted on the Cross London interchange part of these tickets.

 

[Watershed]

You're contractually entitled to break your journey, as the exception to this right in the NRCoT only applies to the use of Underground and DLR services. Though TfL likes to pretend otherwise, the Elizabeth line is a National Rail service (as well as being part of TfL), and so standard National Rail break of journey rules apply.

Unfortunately, the barrier staff at most Elizabeth line 'core' stations are employed by London Underground and from my experience, most (if not all of them) haven't been trained correctly on the validity of National Rail tickets. The difficulty is that it's TfL that is perpetuating the misinformation that break of journey isn't permitted, so raising a complaint is also unlikely to get you very far.

Realistically you may find the only way to get your money back is to go to Court. Obviously that's unlikely to be worth your while unless this happens on a routine basis and you claim for multiple occasions at once.

 

[Ralph Ayres]

In addition to the above advice, there is anyway a longstanding arrangement allowing passengers with cross-London tickets such as yours to end the Underground part of the journey early then pay separately/walk to the onward mainline connection and continue the journey. Even if the LU staff aren't properly trained in the nuances of the Elizabeth line they should by their own logic apply this rule as if it were an Underground line, allowing you to do what you suggest.

 

[redreni]

In theory, completely valid. In practice, difficult as you summarise.

TfL like to see the Elizabeth Line Core as the Underground when it comes to tickets. The balance has never quite been found.

This is the internal guidance

The balance hasn't been found between what and what?

Between TfL's internal guidance and the contractual terms of the travel ticket? If so, there's no balance to be struck in my humble opinion. The internal guidance is wrong insofar as it conflicts with the NRCoT. It will need to be changed.

 

[talldave]

Has anyone ever taken TfL to the small claims court for a costs/aggro claim? Only when they start getting dragged to court will they change their tune.

 

[redreni]

Possibly not even then.

It's quite difficult to get a civil claim to a stage where the judgement sets a binding precedent. Ordinary county court judgements generally don't. Which is not to say any favourable judgement couldn't be publicised so that others could be encouraged to make similar claims.

 

[infobleep]

Has anyone ever taken TfL to the small claims court for a costs/aggro claim? Only when they start getting dragged to court will they change their tune.

It would need someone who has spare cash and is pursuing it on principle.

 

[Bletchleyite]

In addition to the above advice, there is anyway a longstanding arrangement allowing passengers with cross-London tickets such as yours to end the Underground part of the journey early then pay separately/walk to the onward mainline connection and continue the journey. Even if the LU staff aren't properly trained in the nuances of the Elizabeth line they should by their own logic apply this rule as if it were an Underground line, allowing you to do what you suggest.

In my experience LU staff don't all know this. I've had a stupid stand-off before, along the lines of "I'll have to Penalty Fare you if I let you out" -> "Well, I'm just going to stand here until you look up the rules". It didn't take long before I was let out.