"Natural" routes that never had a railway

[d9009alycidon]

Whilst most of the examples above relate to fairly rural areas it is interesting to think about the question from a more modern 'integrated', 'network', 'urban distribution' perspective rather than the historic competitive one.

Gaps like Glasgow Central to Glasgow Queen Street, Bradford Forster Square to Exchange/Interchange, Manchester Piccadilly to Victoria (not via Castlefield!), Sheffield Midland to Victoria and so on suddenly become more obvious.

The cross Glasgow link has been pondered for years, remember that Queen Stree was N.B/LNER and Central was C.R./LMS until nationalisation, so thanks to the rivalry between the two it would need to have been a link form Buchanan Street to Central, unfortunately Buchanan Street was about 100ft higher than Cenral and only a short distance away, so any link would have been a steep incline, in a tunnel, with steam haulage so not practicable. One that comes to mind for me is Largs to Weymss Bay, but again two rival companies operated each branch.

 

[Taunton]

Has always struck me that a line onward from Chelmsford to Braintree, Sudbury, Bury, Thetford, Swaffham and Fakenham would link places all pretty much in a straight line through easy country, and would have really opened up East Anglia to service to London, midway between the Cambridge and Norwich lines, avoiding the need for a number of awkward branches.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Couldn't you run Piccadilly to Victoria via the Midland curve?

From recent discussion on another thread I think that this never had a through service. Going slowly round three sides of a square with loads of flat junctions and a compulsory reversal at London Road/Piccadilly means that it fails the ‘natural route’ definition anyway.

 

[Greybeard33]

In fact, once the railways reached the West Coast of Scotland, the Stornoway mail steamer always went from the closest railhead. At first that was Oban, later Mallaig, and ultimately Kyle of Lochalsh. The service finally moved to Ullapool to better serve road traffic - but it had been obvious since the 1890s that Ullapool was a better port than Kyle from which to serve Stornoway. The proposals for the Garve to Ullapool line were partly justified on the basis of the Outer Isles mail traffic.

In fact, the various Royal Commissions set up for the purpose thought there were better places than Ullapool for the purpose. A short extension past Ullapool to Ardmair (or thereabouts) was suggested, and a line from Invershin to Lochinver would not only be better for Stornoway but was expected to help development of the Caithness, Rossshire and Cromartyshire. The latter line would no doubt be spectactular if it survived, but would more likely have been a colossal white elephant.

With the benefit of hindsight, it is hard to argue that Ullapool has suffered greatly from the collapse of the 1890s proposal to build a rail link from Garve. The village has far outgrown Kyle of Lochalsh and Mallaig, despite the latter two being railheads. The lack of a railway helped the case for upgrading the A835 to its current high standard as part of the trunk road network.

The 961 Inverness - Ullapool express bus takes less than 40 minutes between Inverness and Garve, using the direct road across the Black Isle. In contrast the Kyle train takes nearly an hour between Inverness and Garve, zigzaging around via Beauly and Dingwall. The buses also have good connections at Inverness with the coaches to/from Glasgow and Edinburgh.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

I’ve always been surprised that Tooting in South West London hadn’t been served better by the railways before the Underground. Seems a branch off the LSWR after Clapham Junction would have got some usage but doubt it would be useful today.

Also, don’t know why the West End and Crystal Palace Railway decided to go West after Streatham and do a long sweeping curve through Balham and Wandsworth Common. Thought it would have been better to run from Norwood up towards Brixton and Clapham to Battersea.

 

[delt1c]

I believe it was Intended to link Chingford to Broxbourne on the Lea Valley line. Hence why chingford station looks as though it was built on an unfinished embankment

 

[30907]

I’ve always been surprised that Tooting in South West London hadn’t been served better by the railways before the Underground. Seems a branch off the LSWR after Clapham Junction would have got some usage but doubt it would be useful today.

Also, don’t know why the West End and Crystal Palace Railway decided to go West after Streatham and do a long sweeping curve through Balham and Wandsworth Common. Thought it would have been better to run from Norwood up towards Brixton and Clapham to Battersea.

When did Tooting become more than a village? I doubt it was a significant enough place to warrant a direct line, and beyond it lay LBSC territory - the Tooting Merton and Wimbledon was, significantly, a joint line.

As for the WELCP, if Wikipedia is to be believed, the promoters originally wanted a link to the LSW which partly explains the routing (and extra tunnelling).

 

[ChiefPlanner]

When did Tooting become more than a village? I doubt it was a significant enough place to warrant a direct line, and beyond it lay LBSC territory - the Tooting Merton and Wimbledon was, significantly, a joint line.

As for the WELCP, if Wikipedia is to be believed, the promoters originally wanted a link to the LSW which partly explains the routing (and extra tunnelling).

As a one time (near) resident - Tooting became a significant home for the working etc classes , displaced from today's "Zone 1" as a result of (a) LCC council estates /affordable housing (b) Very cheap tramway fares with a high level of service frequency - the Underground came later , and a steam suburban service would have come knowhere to meeting this social demand.

 

[tbtc]

Construction of the Langsett Reservoir seems to have involved a railway, so it wasn't totally impossible to thread one around the steelworks. The line of the railway was certainly above the Underbank reservoir; getting past Langsett reservoir would have been trickier, but the railway would probably have got there first.

The real challenge for the idea is the length of the tunnel needed. With the west portal close to that actually constructed, the east portal would need to be somewhere in the vicinity of Swinden, making for a 4.7 mile tunnel - something like 50% longer than the Woodhead-Stanhope tunnel, and getting on for half a mile longer than the Severn tunnel.

Also worth remembering that a lot of the reason for the Great Central was coal haulage across the Pennines, for which the connections to the Barnsley area and Wath yard were more important than the one to Sheffield. Continuing a Langsett Valley route towards Wath would have hit some very hilly terrain between Deepcar and Tankersley, probably requiring another long tunnel.

Good points both - cheers!

 

[Meole]

Rookhope - Alston