Navvy Questions

[Andy873]

There's quite a lot written about the railway navvies but I'm left wondering about certain things. Some of my questions might seem to have obvious answers but I'm trying to get a better impression of navvy life working on a new railway line in the 1870's...

The wooden huts that the navvies slept in, were these huts constructed for them or did they have to build them themselves?

Would these huts be allowed on railway land? If not, the contractor would have to rent a field or fields for the huts to house the navvies on, was rent deducted from the navvies pay?

I've read that these huts, along with the navvies would be close to the current location of the new works, how far do you think the works would have to be away from the huts before they are re-located again?

Also, looking through newspaper reports during my research shows that the reputation of the navvies in general seems to be well founded, as there seems to be a large jump in incidents of drunk and disorderly behaviour, assaults and theft, so much so, that one local council voted (unopposed) to build a lock up just weeks after the navvies arrive.

For the local pub landlords, is this a blessing, a curse, or probably both?

If the weather was bad on a particular day and no work could be undertaken were these navvies still paid? I presume not?

Would a railway contractor provide some food for them? Perhaps providing a fried breakfast might tempt people with a sore head and a hard day's work ahead to get out of bed?

I've also read that in Victorian times the average death rate for railway navvies was three per mile, and yet on the line I'm researching I can only find one death for a nine mile route? shouldn't I be finding more? and talking of accidents, would there be any medical people on site, or am I thinking too modern?

Sorry these questions seem to be random in order!

 

[zwk500]

Specifically regarding the averages question - the entire point of an average is that some lines will be higher, some lower. Specific activities were more dangerous than others, with Tunnelling (danger of blasting/Collapses) and high bridges/viaducts (falls) probably responsible for the majority of deaths. If your line was designed to minimise major engineering works then it's very possible deaths were minimal.

I doubt there'd have been any medical people on-site, the reports I've seen refer to being rushed to the local doctor. Always possible there might have been somebody on the site who had medical knowledge, but they likely wouldn't be there as a dedicated medical person (this may change later in railway construction history, if it became a legal requirement).

It's also highly possible deaths were not properly recorded or reported.

 

[DarloRich]

Some of my questions might seem to have obvious answers but I'm trying to get a better impression of navvy life working on a new railway line in the 1870's...

1870 is the year Charles Dickens died. How well do those at the bottom get on in his novels? Those people are essentially disposable. The navvy is at the bottom of the bottom of the barrel! Worse, often he is IRISH! He isn't getting much care and attention. ( the Irish made up perhaps a third of the navvy "community" irc)

I suspect there was no real "standard" of care or behaviour and a lot depended on the attitude of the main contractor towards his labourers. A decent one might provide facilities and attend to pastoral/religious care. A bad one.........

 

[John Webb]

Andy - several books have been written abut the navvies. And my source of information is a couple of decades old so there may be more recent publications. I am aware of "The Railway Navvy" (D Brooke, 1983) and 'The Railway Navvies' (T Coleman, 1965).

Regarding the huts, one is preserved close to Settle Station by Mr Mark Rand, who converted the large water tower there into his home. The hut is sometimes open for public viewing. Unfortunately when I saw it in 2014 I omitted to photograph it!

 

[Pyewipecarshed]

It's many years since I read anything regarding navvies, but from what I can recall;

I believe the navvies themselves erected the temporary huts they lived in. These would be erected on a suitable field rented for the purpose, as when the navvies arrived there was no railway alignment to put them on. Presumably the rental cost of the field was factored into the cost that the contractor quoted to build the line, as I'm not aware of navvies having to pay rent.
A look online reveals the navvies breakfast was usually bacon and bread, lunch bread and evening meal steak with potatoes and more bread, in all cases washed down with beer and with beer in between as elevenses/afternoon "snack" etc. There was a purpose in this as clean drinking water was often not available, so low-alcohol beer provided a good alternative and the calories in it were useful for the demanding physical labour.
Food and a certain amount of beer were provided by the mens' employer.
As for the drinking sessions it depended where the men were working whether the local pubs saw any business. If there were suitable hostelries the navvies would go in, but if they were in the middle of nowhere I believe they used to construct a bar as part of their encampment.
Finally I believe they were paid regardless of the weather. As has been commented above there was no health and safety (at least until the late Victorian/Edwardian era), so the navvies would be expected to work regardless of the weather. But the nature of the job meant that what was achieved in a day varied according to what problems were encountered- some days they might make good progress and others not so much; indeed if something collapsed the project might go backwards!
I hope this helps. It's a fascinating subject and one that is well worth looking further into.

 

[ThirteenArches]

the average death rate for railway navvies was three per mile, and yet on the line I'm researching I can only find one death for a nine mile route

That may well be due to the nature of averages; it also includes stretches where 15 or 20 people were killed in a mile. Tunnelling, deep cuttings, viaducts etc could well have pushed the average up. The conditions (terrain, type of ground, weather etc) cold also affect this.

There was a purpose in this as clean drinking water was often not available

Werent many of the deaths during the construction of the Woodhead Tunnel caused by (water- borne) cholera? At least you cold be sure beer had been boiled.

 

[Haywain]

Would a railway contractor provide some food for them? Perhaps providing a fried breakfast might tempt people with a sore head and a hard day's work ahead to get out of bed?

I think you need to look into what working people were eating in Victorian times - a fried breakfast would have been quite a luxury. As stated above, a basic meal might have had bacon but it's quite likely that was cold bacon.

and evening meal steak with potatoes and more bread,

Probably not what we would regard as steak, these days.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Werent many of the deaths during the construction of the Woodhead Tunnel caused by (water- borne) cholera?

Apparently some 28 such fatalities due to cholera, over a short period in 1849, whilst constructing the second Woodhead tunnel.

 

[Pyewipecarshed]

Probably not what we would regard as steak, these days.

Definitely wouldn't have been prime cuts! I think the closest we get in modern times is the tinned "steak" you find sometimes.
They had to feed the navvies heartily enough to work, but they would have done so as cheaply as possible. Hence the reliance on bread; stodgy but cheap to make.

 

[Mat17]

One of my 3x great grandfathers was recorded on his marriage cert. in the mid-1850s as a 'Railway Labourer' in Yeovil. I've often wondered if he was a navvy. I think he later became a quarryman and ended up in London by the 1860s. They were dirt poor I know that much!

 

[eldomtom2]

I've also read that in Victorian times the average death rate for railway navvies was three per mile, and yet on the line I'm researching I can only find one death for a nine mile route? shouldn't I be finding more? and talking of accidents, would there be any medical people on site, or am I thinking too modern?

I'd be very cautious of death rate figures without information on what data was used to calculate it - not only, as mentioned already, would death rates be affected by the nature of the route and the degree of works required, but "Victorian times" covers a period of some 64 years at the end of which construction had seen large technological developments in machinery, explosives, etc. - which undoubtedly would have had both positive and negative effects on death rates.

Andy - several books have been written abut the navvies. And my source of information is a couple of decades old so there may be more recent publications. I am aware of "The Railway Navvy" (D Brooke, 1983) and 'The Railway Navvies' (T Coleman, 1965).

There is also "Navvyman" (D Sullivan, 1983), which is available in its entirety on Victorianweb and dedicates Chapter 8 to the subject of navvy housing.

 

[billh]

There's a lot of information on the lives of Navvies working on construction of the Manchester Ship Canal by the late 1880s. Not dissimilar to railway construction and the works had over 200miles of temporary railway with over 600 muck wagons employed. There were medical facilities, religious establishments and tea ladies (persons!) keeping refreshments supplied to the various work sites. There were still some strikes by the workers, mostly over pay rates and employment of scab labour . Wooden accomodation huts were provided by the main contractor.

 

[Rescars]

There would appear to be some of the last surviving navvy huts at the closed Edmondthorpe and Wymondham station which are Grade 2 listed.

 

[Andy873]

Andy - several books have been written abut the navvies. And my source of information is a couple of decades old so there may be more recent publications. I am aware of "The Railway Navvy" (D Brooke, 1983) and 'The Railway Navvies' (T Coleman, 1965).

Thanks John, I'll see if I can find them. And speaking of books:

There is also "Navvyman" (D Sullivan, 1983), which is available in its entirety on Victorianweb and dedicates Chapter 8 to the subject of navvy housing.

What an interesting and fascinating read that is, didn't know about this site!

I think you need to look into what working people were eating in Victorian times - a fried breakfast would have been quite a luxury.

Yes, on the face of it, a fried breakfast does seem unlikely, but at least they seem to on the whole at least get something provided to help with the hard work they are going to do that day.

Definitely wouldn't have been prime cuts! I think the closest we get in modern times is the tinned "steak" you find sometimes.

I presume this stewed steak would have been served warm at least? perhaps cooked in large pots maybe with a few spuds and carrots? Even back then, I would have thought most people would want at least one half decent warm meal.

A contractor who has just brought in what 200, 300 workers who all need feeding on a daily basis could get a good deal from a local slaughterhouse?

Regarding the huts, one is preserved close to Settle Station by Mr Mark Rand, who converted the large water tower there into his home. The hut is sometimes open for public viewing. Unfortunately when I saw it in 2014 I omitted to photograph it!

Funny you should mention the S&C, I finally got round to transcribing a very long newspaper article from 1877 when the loop line I'm researching had finally opened
for passenger traffic, all 1,800 words of it! It tells the story of the works, problems etc. However there is no mention of the workers who built it, only that:

"The extraordinary scarcity of men for railway work"

And it's been pointed out to me previously that the construction of the loop line began just five months after the S&C was started, and I think that's why the contractor found it difficult to get men.

I suspect there was no real "standard" of care or behaviour and a lot depended on the attitude of the main contractor towards his labourers. A decent one might provide facilities and attend to pastoral/religious care.

I agree, and faced with this scarcity of workers, a contractor is going to have to do something to attract them, perhaps a bit more money, perhaps slightly better food etc.

Apparently some 28 such fatalities due to cholera, over a short period in 1849, whilst constructing the second Woodhead tunnel.

Then there is the health and sanitation aspect of things. It doesn't take long when reading through Victorian newspapers before you come across regular updates town by town of the deaths due to cholera, and all of the other nasties around at the time.

There was a purpose in this as clean drinking water was often not available, so low-alcohol beer provided a good alternative

Yes, I've heard of the type of beer, I believe it was called "weak beer" that even children drank instead of potentially contaminated water.

I'd be very cautious of death rate figures without information on what data was used to calculate it

Quite right, and I don't take any pleasure in finding someone had been killed due to railway construction, only that it is fact that many died, but that said I am still surprised I can only find one person - he jumped onto a moving wagon after helping to fill it with earth, slipped and I'll leave it there!

Many it seems were buried in unmarked graves which is a real shame to me, think they deserved better.

Going back to the huts, I believe very strongly I know where the first group of huts were on the loop line (but can't prove it). They would have been in the field or fields next to where construction started in April 1870. These fields would have been between the local town and on the North side of the works. I can absolutely prove that the local Lord of the Manor (James Lomax) insisted whilst he was alive that absolutely no buildings of any kind were permitted by him on the South side of the line, hence the huts had to be on the North side of it. There are no traces I can find of these or any other huts, the town grew enormously in just 20 years taking in those fields on the North side, but that's enough about the loop line!

One thing I do know, the L&Y absolutely insisted that if a contractor used private land (not railway land, they had provision for that in one of the clauses of an Act of Parliament) that you, the contractor had to leave that land exactly as you found it, hence no traces of those huts.

 

[zwk500]

One thing I do know, the L&Y absolutely insisted that if a contractor used private land (not railway land, they had provision for that in one of the clauses of an Act of Parliament) that you, the contractor had to leave that land exactly as you found it, hence no traces of those huts.

Their insistence may have been because Parliament insisted to them that they do so.

 

[Rescars]

A little earlier than your loop, and an aside from more conventional railway construction, but an illustration of what could be done, is the story of the Grand Crimean Central Railway. This line, constructed on a not-for-profit basis by Peto, Brassey and Betts, was built to support the British Army during the siege of Sevastopol. Apparently some 500 specialists and navvies were employed (no doubt carefully picked), shipped out with all the necesssary construction and operating equipment in groups of 50 to 80, each group accompanied by a foreman, assistant and surgeon. The line started to become operational within 3 weeks of starting work in the depth of winter! Lots more on Wikipedia.

 

[mailbyrail]

I've just acquired another title to add to the ones listed so far.
3,000 Strangers - Navvy Life on The Kettering to Manton Railway by J Ann Paul published by the Railway Heritage by Nostalgia Collections in 2003.
It describes the building of the line from the 1870s providing details of lodging houses, navvy huts, shanty towns, shelters and the church mission along with social conditions and the actual building of the line, tunnel and viaduct.
I've only just started reading it but it would seem to answer many of the questions.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Another non-railway source book that I've seen, "The Land of the Etherow" by Neville T. Sharpe, which focuses on the history of the industry and people of Longdendale (i.e. the valley to the Western end of Woodhead tunnel) states that in addition to the various fatalities, due primarily to cholera, rockfalls and explosions, there had also been some 200 'severe' accidents (maimings, fractures, burns, dislocations, etc.) and 450 'minor' ones. The navvies did, however, have a local surgeon, a Dr. Henry Pomfret, on a retainer, but he resided in Hollingworth, some eight miles or so away. Nevertheless, he typically visited the worksite three times a week.

 

[Rescars]

There are some details about the navvies who built Kilsby Tunnel and other parts of the LNWR in Stokers and Pokers by Sir Francis Head - published in 1849 and available on Project Gutenberg.

 

[Andy873]

Their insistence may have been because Parliament insisted to them that they do so.

It could well be, we know bills were often amended by Parliament.

A little earlier than your loop, and an aside from more conventional railway construction, but an illustration of what could be done, is the story of the Grand Crimean Central Railway. This line, constructed on a not-for-profit basis by Peto, Brassey and Betts, was built to support the British Army during the siege of Sevastopol. Apparently some 500 specialists and navvies were employed (no doubt carefully picked), shipped out with all the necesssary construction and operating equipment in groups of 50 to 80, each group accompanied by a foreman, assistant and surgeon. The line started to become operational within 3 weeks of starting work in the depth of winter! Lots more on Wikipedia.

Fascinating! an example of what was to come later in WW1.

I've just acquired another title to add to the ones listed so far.
3,000 Strangers - Navvy Life on The Kettering to Manton Railway by J Ann Paul published by the Railway Heritage by Nostalgia Collections in 2003.

Another non-railway source book that I've seen, "The Land of the Etherow" by Neville T. Sharpe, which focuses on the history of the industry and people of Longdendale (i.e. the valley to the Western end of Woodhead tunnel) states that in addition to the various fatalities, due primarily to cholera, rockfalls and explosions, there had also been some 200 'severe' accidents (maimings, fractures, burns, dislocations, etc.) and 450 'minor' ones. The navvies did, however, have a local surgeon, a Dr. Henry Pomfret, on a retainer, but he resided in Hollingworth, some eight miles or so away. Nevertheless, he typically visited the worksite three times a week.

There are some details about the navvies who built Kilsby Tunnel and other parts of the LNWR in Stokers and Pokers by Sir Francis Head - published in 1849 and available on Project Gutenberg.

Some more good sources of information, thanks guys.

You know, all the things you all have told me helps a great deal, although the loop line is my interest it helps me understand the life and work of the people who actually built it. In that regards, the loop would have been nothing special.

I found one newspaper article that shows even the navvies might from time to time benefit from someone in authority being in a good mood. Mr Bower (L&Y Resident engineer) had got married in April 1874, and on his return to work on the loop the L&Y present him with "a beautiful timepiece" to commemorate his marriage. Mt. Bower then "treats the whole workforce on the Padiham length". It doesn't say what the treat was, perhaps some beers, food, perhaps lets them finish early for once - who knows, but they got treated to something. So for at least once, they were actually thought about, somewhere.

Apart from that, really the only other reports about the navvies harps back to drunkenness and theft. Two are charged with stealing four of the contractors spades, and one report of one stealing a tape measure? guess if it wasn't nailed down it might go for a walk!

The navvies and their reputation could also be used by unsavoury characters to deflect suspicion away from them and onto the navvies themselves. I won't describe what happened except to say a young girl was murdered by someone who was dressed as a navvy, turns out it was a local barber. This crime happened at the same location of the last cutting where the navvies had most likely been relocated to.

So it seems even though as a navvy you might be innocent of something, you could find yourself in very deep water very quickly through no fault of your own, simply put, you could be a scape goat for someone else. Fortunately in this case, the police were on the ball, but you see my point.

 

[WolvertonWorks]

You might find the material about the navvies in Cutting Remarks by Chris Hillyard subtitle The Story of Roade’s Railways and Cutting through the Ages of interest.

IIRC there was a bit about the local landowner finding there were no pheasants when he brought his friends to a shoot - the navvies having effectively exterminated them earlier.

 

[Andy873]

IIRC there was a bit about the local landowner finding there were no pheasants when he brought his friends to a shoot - the navvies having effectively exterminated them earlier.

That's a great story, made me laugh! It reminds me of one episode of the original Darling buds of May where the Larkins go poaching on the local Lord's estate.

On a serious note, poaching was a big concern. When the Leeds & Liverpool canal was being built, it passed very close to Lord Petre's private estate at Dunkenhalgh manor (between Rishton and Accrington). He wasn't so much concerned about the canal but the poachers that might hop over into his estate from the works and later the tow path.

 

[Revaulx]

My grandmother grew up in Beaconsfield and was a teenager when the GW/GC Joint Line was being built. Her older sister played the harmonium in the navvies’ wooden mission church.

From what she used to tell me it sounded as though working methods had hardly changed since the golden age of railway building, despite all the advances in engineering that had taken place over the intervening decades.

 

[Spartacus]

Something work remembering is that from the building stage forwards most railways were organised like the army. One way that would have related to navvies is how it impacted their pay as they had to pay for practically everything. Food, shelter, medical treatment, not to mention clothing, all had to be paid for, either through deductions from pay or being paid to some extent effectively in tokens which could only be spent internally. This was done as much to dissuade the almost inevitable caravan of hangers on which followed the navvies (who often travelled with their families) offering food, drink, accommodation, and "companionship" as to get some of that money back.

Seeking medical treatment was expensive so most wouldn't bother, even shelter in huts was an expense some couldn't afford so they'd sleep in tents. I can't remember if the company beer was free or not, but as it was quite weak (as most beer was then) it was really just a healthier alternative to foul water filled with sheep muck etc....

 

[sharpener]

I was reminded of the extant remains of the construction camp of one of the reservoirs in Yorkshire, it may have been the Scar House Reservoir mentioned in this article which has some interesting references and onward links.

 

[Harpo]

I can't remember if the company beer was free or not, but as it was quite weak (as most beer was then)

Beer strengths before WW1 were quite high (up to 8% for exports) and only dropped to todays typical 4% mark when grain shortages hit.

 

[Spartacus]

Beer strengths before WW1 were quite high (up to 8% for exports) and only dropped to todays typical 4% mark when grain shortages hit.

Surely they'd have been given table beer or small beer, which ranged from modern 'session beer' levels down to barely alcoholic, rather than typical pub ales and strong beers which could be very strong, and more likely yo to served in the travelling hostelries outside the camps?

 

[Harpo]

Surely they'd have been given table beer or small beer, which ranged from modern 'session beer' levels down to barely alcoholic, rather than typical pub ales and strong beers which could be very strong, and more likely yo to served in the travelling hostelries outside the camps?

Could well be but as the beer often substituted for a lack of water I’m guessing that dilution would be a challenge? I doubt that any of us would much fancy their beer or their food.

 

[eldomtom2]

Finally I believe they were paid regardless of the weather. As has been commented above there was no health and safety (at least until the late Victorian/Edwardian era), so the navvies would be expected to work regardless of the weather. But the nature of the job meant that what was achieved in a day varied according to what problems were encountered- some days they might make good progress and others not so much; indeed if something collapsed the project might go backwards!

According to Sullivan (citing Brassey) days where the weather meant no work could be done were not uncommon and this of course meant no pay. Piecework instead of wages was also common, which also would have led to weather impacting pay.

Something work remembering is that from the building stage forwards most railways were organised like the army.

Railways, sure, but railway construction was a different matter not undertaken by the railway companies. Railway construction, with its endless independent contractors and sub-contractors, was not especially like the army.

Seeking medical treatment was expensive so most wouldn't bother,

Navvies would not, of course, pay for medical treatment in full upfront, but membership in Sick Clubs, benefit societies, etc seems to have been decently common.

 

[Andy873]

Navvies would not, of course, pay for medical treatment in full upfront, but membership in Sick Clubs, benefit societies, etc seems to have been decently common.

That's a very interesting point you make there. Just because someone can't read and write doesn't mean they (or at least some of them) are without a few brain cells. It wouldn't take too long to work out that if you're doing a dangerous job you might at some point get injured and thus need some help.

And talking of injuries, can anyone agree with me that if you are involved with digging a deep cutting (200,000 cubic yards), the material being excavated is blue boulder clay, described as "hard as macadam when dry, which turns into a running slurry when wet, and sitting on a treacherous bed" is going to cause many injuries?