Need help understanding minimum connection times

[SER_Invicta]

Hi,

I hope I’m posting this in the right place. I’m trying to work out what trains I can get out of London on a Saturday morning based on what time I get into St Pancras from Canterbury West. This Sat 21st there is a 05:25 CBW - 06:21 STP. Looking at the BR Times website, it seems to me that getting any train from Kings Cross from 06:52 onwards would be a valid connection. However, the National Rail journey planner shows I can get a 06:42 service from Kings Cross to Kings Lynn. Surely this is too tight to be a valid connection or am I missing something?

Thanks in advance

 

[cuccir]

Regardless of other rules, if you can get National Rail Enquiries to give you an itinerary then train companies should honour that - I would recommend getting a print-out or screen shot to confirm this. So if you're splitting tickets and want to ensure you should be allowed onto the next service if you miss your train at Kings Cross, then you should be fine.

The minimum connection time at both Kings Cross & St Pancras is 15 minutes, plus 1 minute to travel between them, so it should be 31 minutes. My guess would be that the journey planner is considering them to be one station and applying only one of the connection times (and perhaps the minute's travel) to produce a 15 or 16 minute connection time.

 

[Haywain]

The minimum connection time at both Kings Cross & St Pancras is 15 minutes, plus 1 minute to travel between them, so it should be 31 minutes. My guess would be that the journey planner is considering them to be one station and applying only one of the connection times (and perhaps the minute's travel) to produce a 15 or 16 minute connection time.

It's pretty clear from the itinerary that the OP has found, which can easily be reproduced, that the journey planner is giving 10 minutes each side of the 1 minute walk. Have the connection times been reduced for certain services/TOCs?

 

[janb]

It's pretty clear from the itinerary that the OP has found, which can easily be reproduced, that the journey planner is giving 10 minutes each side of the 1 minute walk. Have the connection times been reduced for certain services/TOCs?

Don't know. iKB gives 5 minutes for St Pancras and 15 minutes for Kings Cross.

Fujitsu Journey Planner meanwhile goes with a 30+1 transfer and puts you on the 0742.

 

[alistairlees]

Don't know. iKB gives 5 minutes for St Pancras and 15 minutes for Kings Cross.

Fujitsu Journey Planner meanwhile goes with a 30+1 transfer and puts you on the 0742.

St Pancras is 15 minutes in the data.

 

[alistairlees]

To answer the OP’s question: the silverrail journey planner that is used on the national rail website has been adjusted in that to provide a connection of 10 + 1 +10, rather than 15 + 1 + 15, for st Pancras / kings cross. It is similarly adjusted in the govia websites which also use silverrail and may be adjusted in the same way on others, such as LNER, that also use silverrail.

Your connection is valid, by way of it being a valid itinerary, even though it is not supported by the data.

 

[SER_Invicta]

Thanks. It does seem a bit confusing but I’m glad to hear it would be valid

 

[Flying Snail]

Thanks. It does seem a bit confusing but I’m glad to hear it would be valid

In case you are unaware, not being a valid connection does not mean you are unable to take the service if you get to it in time, depending of course on you having an appropriate ticket.

 

[Joe Paxton]

In case you are unaware, not being a valid connection does not mean you are unable to take the service if you get to it in time, depending of course on you having an appropriate ticket.

Yeah, that's how I read the OP's query too!

If you can make a connecting train, you're free to take it (assuming you have a legit ticket). Just don't get run over whilst doing so!

(If you are able-bodied and know where you're going, most cross-London connections can be made in well under the time that is allowed for by journey planners.)

 

[SER_Invicta]

Yes, I do understand that. I was just trying to work out what time I could get a train from Kings Cross, Euston etc and have it be a valid connection so that I can split tickets and be allowed to get a later train if there was a delay. I thought I’d worked out the times but the 06:42 service confused me

 

[PeterC]

SNIP
Just don't get run over whilst doing so!
/SNIP

As somebody who needs to drive down Pancras Road fairly regularly I would second that. The area between the two stations is a haven for clueless drivers delivering or collecting passengers and pulling in or out with no regard for traffic or pedestrians. Most of the pedestrian's aren't much better, I always give a sigh of relief once I am past the German Gymnasium.

 

[Wallsendmag]

As somebody who needs to drive down Pancras Road fairly regularly I would second that. The area between the two stations is a haven for clueless drivers delivering or collecting passengers and pulling in or out with no regard for traffic or pedestrians. Most of the pedestrian's aren't much better, I always give a sigh of relief once I am past the German Gymnasium.

You could always use the tunnel through the Tube station.

 

[Haywain]

You could always use the tunnel through the Tube station.

For goodness sake! It's hazardous enough walking across the road without you encouraging people to drive down the subway!!

 

[Wallsendmag]

For goodness sake! It's hazardous enough walking across the road without you encouraging people to drive down the subway!!

I’d love to try that in Dynamic mode just for the exhaust sound

 

[yorkie]

Thanks. It does seem a bit confusing but I’m glad to hear it would be valid

It's valid but I would recommend obtaining a through itinerary and bringing this along as evidence. If you can get a booking site to offer the fares you want and itinerary you want as a through journey then that would also be useful evidence of validity too.