Netherlands reduces speed limit to 100 km/h in daytime

[reddragon]

Really? Why would the manufactures want to clear their stock and lose money? I can’t find any evidence of nearly New cars at delivery mileage being sold at half price.

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money...firesale-dealers-offer-40-pre-reg-models.html

• Dealers were forced to pre-register a large amount of new-car stock last month
• This was due to the arrival of an emission deadline stipulating that some models can no longer be sold as 'new' vehicles from 1 September
• This means there is a flood of 19-plate cars being offered at discounted prices

Some of these ended up 50% off as nobody wanted them!

 

[Bald Rick]

Ok, fair enough, but no one ever buys an Audi A8 at list price anyway. In fact hardly anyone buys them at all!

 

[radamfi]

The recent upgrade to the A556 shortcut between the M6 and M56 was only approved with a speed limit of 60 mph to reduce air pollution. What's so special about that compared to all the other high standard dual carriageways and motorways which have a 70 mph limit?

 

[edwin_m]

The recent upgrade to the A556 shortcut between the M6 and M56 was only approved with a speed limit of 60 mph to reduce air pollution. What's so special about that compared to all the other high standard dual carriageways and motorways which have a 70 mph limit?

Perhaps being upgraded it's expected to attract more traffic, and the speed limit is to keep pollution at the level it was before?

 

[underbank]

This may be true, but (a) you need an exception to prove the rule, and (b) there being some locations where smart motorways won't work is not a reason not to put them elsewhere where they demonstrably do (though I do agree that part time hard shoulder running is a rubbish idea).

Ironically, it's hard shoulder running which would have improved the M60 motorway situation. It's exactly what all the motorists stuck in stop/start traffic for a few years whilst the updating was done were hoping for, so quite a disappointment when all those years of congestion didn't actually yield any improvement, except for the variable speed limit/speed camera gantries which are pointless. All that time and huge amounts of money could have been used far better to actually improve the badly designed junctions - but no, lets create new speed limit enforcements to try to catch people doing more than 40mph when the limits are activated, even though the actual/real traffic is crawling along at 5mph. Makes no sense at all.

 

[underbank]

Really? Why would the manufactures want to clear their stock and lose money? I can’t find any evidence of nearly New cars at delivery mileage being sold at half price.

They do that all the time anyway, whether or not there's new legislation. They don't want cars languishing in fields as they deteriorate over time even when not used. Dealers need a steady supply of cars to sell otherwise they don't make enough profit and may move to a different franchise/manufacturer. The car factories need to keep car movements flowing - they can't sit idle or work below optimum output efficiency. Cars sat in compounds and fields are costing interest and tieing up working capital. And, at the end of the day, the whole chain makes money out of servicing/repairs/replacement parts - a bit like the ink jet cartridge industry where printers are sold below cost to ensure buyers end up paying stupidly high prices for cartridges. So, retailers put pressure on the manufacturer to provide them with popular/in demand cars to sell and with scope to discount. Then manufacturers put pressure on retailers to sell the less popular cars. What no one wants is a load of cars stood in a field. Manufacturers "allocate" cars to retailers/dealers whether they ask for them or not - it's part of the franchise agreement for garages to have to accept what they're given and then ultimately pay for them after a number of months (usually 6 or so), hence a dealer can be stuck with cars they have to pay for but never wanted in the first place and can't sell - so they register them as demos, use them for courtesy cars or for the salesmen's "company car" and ultimately work hard to flog them as soon as they can, with whatever discount they have to give!

There is nearly always a good deal to be had if you are willing to haggle hard and walk away. Usually, the best deals are available if you can be persuaded to take a car sat in the dealer's compound or which they've registered as a demo. I.e. you go in and ask for a red 1.2 SL and they offer a good discount on a blue 1.1 SX (simply because it's sat in their compound and had to be paid for next month whether they sell it or not!). Occasionally, the manufacturer will have too much stock of a particular model and will offer big bonuses to dealers to sell them - that's not just cars in fields, but also cars on the production line if they're just going to end up in the field once made, so you can still get cars with factory fitted extras at discounts. Then at certain times of year, the dealer will be just short of their quarterly "retro bonus" targets, which are usually something like £500 per car for the first 100 registered and then £1000 per car if you register over 100 - that's on all cars not just the 101st, so if a dealer is on 90, they'll offer huge discounts to sell another 11 - retro bonus on 90 would be £45,000, but retro bonuses on 101 would be £101,000, i.e. £56,000 more, or £5,090 per car between 91 and 101 - so the dealer can offer a further discount of up to £5,000 per car just to sell them and hit the target and still make more profit, (plus the earnings on the PDI, and future servicing/parts).

(I used to be the accountant for a main Peugeot dealership! - some of the wheeling and dealing the sales director had to manage was quite spectacular to find ways of hitting the targets and keeping our own stocks low).

That knowledge/experience has served me well. I have never paid more than 75% of list price for any new car I've bought, and that's over a number of brands, inc Citroen, Renault, Peugeot, Rover, Nissan. The last one I bought was particularly spectacular, 5 years ago. My wife's needed replacing, so we went to the Renault garage to look at a ex-demo, 9 months old, 250 miles, which was priced at £15k against a list price of £20k. All fine except she didn't like the light coloured interior/upholstery. Salesmen offered to knock off another £1k to take it. Wife still not interested so we walked away. Phone call next day from the sales manager saying he could do it brand new, darker upholstery for the same £15k. I said we'd have it if he'd do it for £14k and throw in £1k worth of factor fitted extras (parking sensors, etc). He said no, so that was that. Then a week later, he phoned back and said yes, he'd do it, so, then I asked if he'd throw in a "proper" spare tyre (instead of the temporary one that comes as standard) and floor mats. He agreed as long as it could be registered by the end of the next month (so just enough time to get it through the factory and delivered), so I got a car with list price of around £21.5 (inc extras) for £14k. All because I knew it was "that time of the month" in respect of their retro quarterly bonuses and they were desperate to register as many as they could.

Whenever there are other factors, such as a model coming to the end of its production life, or change in legislation, they're even more desperate to get rid of stocks.

 

[reddragon]

It would probably cause unnecessary confusion for one class of passenger car (as distinct from a lorry with a limiter) to have a different limit, to be honest.

If in the ULEZ cameras detect all vehicles and identify which ones are liable for a charge, why cannot a speed camera detecting cars driving between 50 & 70 mph also identify those who are speeding and EVs that are not?

 

[underbank]

If in the ULEZ cameras detect all vehicles and identify which ones are liable for a charge, why cannot a speed camera detecting cars driving between 50 & 70 mph also identify those who are speeding and EVs that are not?

Yes, of course that's technically possible, but I don't think that's the point. The point is that people generally drive at the same speed as those around them. So people in a car with a lower speed will likely end up doing the same speed as those around them in cars with a higher allowed speed limit, and in moderate/heavy traffic, even those allowed to drive at a higher speed will end up stuck surrounded by lower speed cars so won't be able to go as fast as they are allowed to anyway. You'd probably need to have a marked lane for higher speed cars. There are already "issues" caused by limiting speeds of HGVs on motorways - without segregation, I can't see how you can effectively and safely have different speed limits for cars too - at least with lorries, other drivers can see they're a lorry and should know they're speed-limited.

 

[reddragon]

Yes, of course that's technically possible, but I don't think that's the point. The point is that people generally drive at the same speed as those around them. So people in a car with a lower speed will likely end up doing the same speed as those around them in cars with a higher allowed speed limit, and in moderate/heavy traffic, even those allowed to drive at a higher speed will end up stuck surrounded by lower speed cars so won't be able to go as fast as they are allowed to anyway. You'd probably need to have a marked lane for higher speed cars. There are already "issues" caused by limiting speeds of HGVs on motorways - without segregation, I can't see how you can effectively and safely have different speed limits for cars too - at least with lorries, other drivers can see they're a lorry and should know they're speed-limited.

There are already bus lanes, multi user lanes, slower HGVs with no access to lane 3 etc so the principal already exists for differential speeds.

I don't think anyone will create special EV lanes, roads will just gradually change to no diesel then EV only as is happening in London & Bristol already.

 

[Bald Rick]

They do that all the time anyway, whether or not there's new legislation. They don't want cars languishing in fields as they deteriorate over time even when not used. Dealers need a steady supply of cars to sell otherwise they don't make enough profit and may move to a different franchise/manufacturer. The car factories need to keep car movements flowing - they can't sit idle or work below optimum output efficiency. Cars sat in compounds and fields are costing interest and tieing up working capital. And, at the end of the day, the whole chain makes money out of servicing/repairs/replacement parts - a bit like the ink jet cartridge industry where printers are sold below cost to ensure buyers end up paying stupidly high prices for cartridges. So, retailers put pressure on the manufacturer to provide them with popular/in demand cars to sell and with scope to discount. Then manufacturers put pressure on retailers to sell the less popular cars. What no one wants is a load of cars stood in a field. Manufacturers "allocate" cars to retailers/dealers whether they ask for them or not - it's part of the franchise agreement for garages to have to accept what they're given and then ultimately pay for them after a number of months (usually 6 or so), hence a dealer can be stuck with cars they have to pay for but never wanted in the first place and can't sell - so they register them as demos, use them for courtesy cars or for the salesmen's "company car" and ultimately work hard to flog them as soon as they can, with whatever discount they have to give!

There is nearly always a good deal to be had if you are willing to haggle hard and walk away. Usually, the best deals are available if you can be persuaded to take a car sat in the dealer's compound or which they've registered as a demo. I.e. you go in and ask for a red 1.2 SL and they offer a good discount on a blue 1.1 SX (simply because it's sat in their compound and had to be paid for next month whether they sell it or not!). Occasionally, the manufacturer will have too much stock of a particular model and will offer big bonuses to dealers to sell them - that's not just cars in fields, but also cars on the production line if they're just going to end up in the field once made, so you can still get cars with factory fitted extras at discounts. Then at certain times of year, the dealer will be just short of their quarterly "retro bonus" targets, which are usually something like £500 per car for the first 100 registered and then £1000 per car if you register over 100 - that's on all cars not just the 101st, so if a dealer is on 90, they'll offer huge discounts to sell another 11 - retro bonus on 90 would be £45,000, but retro bonuses on 101 would be £101,000, i.e. £56,000 more, or £5,090 per car between 91 and 101 - so the dealer can offer a further discount of up to £5,000 per car just to sell them and hit the target and still make more profit, (plus the earnings on the PDI, and future servicing/parts).

(I used to be the accountant for a main Peugeot dealership! - some of the wheeling and dealing the sales director had to manage was quite spectacular to find ways of hitting the targets and keeping our own stocks low).

That knowledge/experience has served me well. I have never paid more than 75% of list price for any new car I've bought, and that's over a number of brands, inc Citroen, Renault, Peugeot, Rover, Nissan. The last one I bought was particularly spectacular, 5 years ago. My wife's needed replacing, so we went to the Renault garage to look at a ex-demo, 9 months old, 250 miles, which was priced at £15k against a list price of £20k. All fine except she didn't like the light coloured interior/upholstery. Salesmen offered to knock off another £1k to take it. Wife still not interested so we walked away. Phone call next day from the sales manager saying he could do it brand new, darker upholstery for the same £15k. I said we'd have it if he'd do it for £14k and throw in £1k worth of factor fitted extras (parking sensors, etc). He said no, so that was that. Then a week later, he phoned back and said yes, he'd do it, so, then I asked if he'd throw in a "proper" spare tyre (instead of the temporary one that comes as standard) and floor mats. He agreed as long as it could be registered by the end of the next month (so just enough time to get it through the factory and delivered), so I got a car with list price of around £21.5 (inc extras) for £14k. All because I knew it was "that time of the month" in respect of their retro quarterly bonuses and they were desperate to register as many as they could.

Whenever there are other factors, such as a model coming to the end of its production life, or change in legislation, they're even more desperate to get rid of stocks.

Great post, thanks for all the info!

 

[Controller1701]

It's exactly what all the motorists stuck in stop/start traffic for a few years whilst the updating was done were hoping for, so quite a disappointment when all those years of congestion didn't actually yield any improvement, except for the variable speed limit/speed camera gantries which are pointless.

I would say for speeding drivers they are certainly not pointless. I would go as far as saying they give lots of points....

Paul

 

[73202]

I don't think anyone will create special EV lanes, roads will just gradually change to no diesel then EV only as is happening in London & Bristol already.

They already have done in Nottingham
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-37541752

Work on the first electric vehicle-only road lane in England has begun.

The Eco-Expressway is planned to be a 6 mile (10km) adaptation of an existing route into Nottingham.

As well the lane in each direction reserved for electric vehicles, the £6.1m project will also have a cycleway and lane for conventional traffic.

In January Nottingham was one of four successful bids to share £40m of government funding to promote use of electric vehicles.

 

[Bald Rick]

They already have done in Nottingham
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-37541752

Work on the first electric vehicle-only road lane in England has begun.

The Eco-Expressway is planned to be a 6 mile (10km) adaptation of an existing route into Nottingham.

As well the lane in each direction reserved for electric vehicles, the £6.1m project will also have a cycleway and lane for conventional traffic.

In January Nottingham was one of four successful bids to share £40m of government funding to promote use of electric vehicles.

I cycled along that earlier this year. Didn’t see any electric cars though!

 

[edwin_m]

They already have done in Nottingham
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-37541752

Work on the first electric vehicle-only road lane in England has begun.

The Eco-Expressway is planned to be a 6 mile (10km) adaptation of an existing route into Nottingham.

As well the lane in each direction reserved for electric vehicles, the £6.1m project will also have a cycleway and lane for conventional traffic.

That link is from 2016. As far as I'm aware no electric vehicle lane was ever provided, and I've driven on it several times so I think I would have noticed. There were electric buses but they recently disappeared as part of council cuts, though part of the route including the park and ride is now served by NCT biogas buses.

Ironically part of that road is on the former Great Northern Railway route into Nottingham.

 

[Bald Rick]

I’m pretty sure it did happen, I remember the signs, and this website confirms it:

https://www.transportnottingham.com/driving/ultra-low-emission-vehicles/daleside-road-bus-lane/

Great tarmac as well for cycling on - super quick!

 

[73202]

I drove along there this afternoon and yes there are electric vehicle only lanes. They are combined with the bus lanes. Google street view(if link works) at https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.9...X6r46WC2Pj06WzTIHQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1

 

[73202]

I cycled along that earlier this year. Didn’t see any electric cars though!

Only ever seen one electric car using it all the times I've been along there.