Network day in the 80's. .. And of finding overnight trains.

[kentrailman]

A comment on the Caledonian sleeper thread triggered a memory. Wonder if anyone has the answer !

Someone commented about passenger coaches being attached to mail trains and it instantly triggered a memory of a ' network day' in the 1980's.

For those who are not as old as me; these were days at the start of ' network southeast' when you could travel anywhere on the network for 24 hours for a low price if you had a network card.

Anyway, the memory !

I remember planning to make the most of the day by starting at midnight. The timetable referenced a train leaving, I think it was Waterloo, just after midnight. Apart from Gatwick trains this was just about the only 'overnight' possibility.

I remember arriving at Waterloo ( or was it Victoria ?) To find a single passenger coach tacked onto the end of a mail train and hundreds of people like me all trying to cram into it ! In the end I went backwards and forwards to and from Gatwick all night ! Not sure where everyone else went who couldn't get on !

Anyone else recall or able to work out where that 'overnight' train was going ?!! .. Any memories of the joys of network days ?! Even better, was anyone else here on that train !

It wouldn't work these days .. Too many followers of the likes of Geoff Marshall would be filling every train on the network !

( apologies if there is already a thread on network days, I couldn't find one and I am sure mods will soon redirect this if there is ! )

 

[Gloster]

The only carriage working book I have is the South Western Division 1980-1981 one and the first train out of Waterloo was the Yeovil News which had four or five passenger coaches in the formation. Could it have been Victoria?

 

[ChiefPlanner]

It has been discussed here before , and "somewhere" I have the SW Division daily log.

The day began at 0600 with the comforting note of 8x455 and 8xVEP crewed and spare at Wimbledon Park and Clapham Yard.

Then the proverbial hit the fan and a huge range of specials was "manufactered" with such treats as 12 HAP from Woking to Bournemouth and so on.

It seemed much of the world wanted to see the sea. £3 I think. Only a grinch having to stand for a while could complain about such an epic community orientated day.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I traveled south from Preston the previous evening to take part. I will dig my records out. It was wonderful. I will reply again later this evening. One comment I remember vividly was a haulage basher shouting “ no dossing tonight” in the said absolutely packed carriage.

 

[Cowley]

My first Network Southeast Day was I think sometime around when the Kings Cross fire happened. My friends father took two of us up to London and we bunked a few sheds (included Marylebone and Stratford) and visited many of the major stations around London using the North London line a couple of times.
I think we had to buy returns to either Pinhoe or Honiton because the Network Southeast western limits stopped somewhere outside Exeter at first.

If I remember correctly my friend Paul’s dad gave us a lift to Peters house and we caught the 05:50 Exeter to Brighton (no overnight trains were available to us on the ticket) and it was a pair of 33s powering our train of blue and grey mk1s up the bank and non stop through Exeter Central up to Salisbury where we changed onto a 33+8TC which we took to Clapham Junction to start our day.
Great memories.

 

[kentrailman]

I traveled south from Preston the previous evening to take part. I will dig my records out. It was wonderful. I will reply again later this evening. One comment I remember vividly was a haulage basher shouting “ no dossing tonight” in the said absolutely packed carriage.

Woohoo you were there too, I wasn't imagining it ! Thank you !

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Massive goodwill generated all over , and a lot of staff slogged that day in running those extra services , some coming in specially.

Balancing the rolling stock for Monday morning must have been quite a task , but the railways in the south are very well used to that , (football , Ocean liners , musical events , and all that , on top of the numerous operating disasters)

 

[High Dyke]

My own experiences were a pair of 50's from Paddington - Oxford. West Coastway services from Fareham - Brighton using Cl.33 + LHCS. Worst experience was doing Gatwick Express services one year, but having been up most of the night before I fell asleep on one particular trip, and woke up passing through Clapham Junction, but in the wrong direction. I bailed out at East Croydon and made it for a train back into London. Caught the last train from Kings Cross heading north and settled down to sleep again. Woke up as the train arrived at Peterborough; however, my car was at Huntingdon! Cue embarrassed phone call to parent in middle of the night to drive the 30-odd miles to pick me up and then onto Huntingdon to recover my car before driving back to home.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

I wonder if they'll do the same thing when GBR takes over...

 

[PeterY]

They were great days. On one of them I did Paddington to Northampton, via Oxford and Bletchley.

 

[75A]

A comment on the Caledonian sleeper thread triggered a memory. Wonder if anyone has the answer !

Someone commented about passenger coaches being attached to mail trains and it instantly triggered a memory of a ' network day' in the 1980's.

For those who are not as old as me; these were days at the start of ' network southeast' when you could travel anywhere on the network for 24 hours for a low price if you had a network card.

Anyway, the memory !

I remember planning to make the most of the day by starting at midnight. The timetable referenced a train leaving, I think it was Waterloo, just after midnight. Apart from Gatwick trains this was just about the only 'overnight' possibility.

I remember arriving at Waterloo ( or was it Victoria ?) To find a single passenger coach tacked onto the end of a mail train and hundreds of people like me all trying to cram into it ! In the end I went backwards and forwards to and from Gatwick all night ! Not sure where everyone else went who couldn't get on !

Anyone else recall or able to work out where that 'overnight' train was going ?!! .. Any memories of the joys of network days ?! Even better, was anyone else here on that train !

It wouldn't work these days .. Too many followers of the likes of Geoff Marshall would be filling every train on the network !

( apologies if there is already a thread on network days, I couldn't find one and I am sure mods will soon redirect this if there is ! )

The 03:27 Victoria to Hastings paper train always had a mk1 brake second closest to the loco (73) as far as Eastbourne where the loco ran round and took the back van to Hastings to unload, before going to Ore to run round then back to Eastbourne and finally Brighton Top Yard.

 

[Ken H]

I did one. Started Wolverton. Got to Euston, walked to Victoria for the vans (or was it London bridge?) to Deal. 73, a brake composite and some vans. Guard checked all passes! Nice run. But it was rammed. Fiddled round kent, marsh link and along the coast all the way to wool. Nice thumper on Pompey - Southampton. Did basingstoke-reading too I think. Late train back to wolvey.

 

[kentrailman]

The 03:27 Victoria to Hastings paper train always had a mk1 brake second closest to the loco (73) as far as Eastbourne where the loco ran round and took the back van to Hastings to unload, before going to Ore to run round then back to Eastbourne and finally Brighton Top Yard.

Aha ! Maybe that was the one I remembered ! Sounds as if it fits my memory. Maybe I did a trip to Gatwick and back first .. Yes, I think that might have been it ! Thank you ! ( though waiting to see what GRALISTAIR says later )

 

[Cowley]

The 03:27 Victoria to Hastings paper train always had a mk1 brake second closest to the loco (73) as far as Eastbourne where the loco ran round and took the back van to Hastings to unload, before going to Ore to run round then back to Eastbourne and finally Brighton Top Yard.

I did one. Started Wolverton. Got to Euston, walked to Victoria for the vans (or was it London bridge?) to Deal. 73, a brake composite and some vans. Guard checked all passes! Nice run. But it was rammed. Fiddled round kent, marsh link and along the coast all the way to wool. Nice thumper on Pompey - Southampton. Did basingstoke-reading too I think. Late train back to wolvey.

I’ve been trying to find photos of these services for a couple of weeks (for modelling purposes) but I’ve totally drawn a blank.
If anyone has any shots of early morning southern region mail trains with single coach passenger accommodation that they could share you’d make me a very happy man!

 

[Gloster]

02.30 Waterloo-Portsmouth & Southsea M-Sa: 33 (73?) + 2 NDV+ BSK + 4 NDV + NJV.
03.40 Waterloo-Petersfield/Aldershot SuO: Loco (*) + 2 NJV + NDV + TSO + 2 NJV + 3 NQV

* Not sure what the loco was, possibly a 33, but a few years later a 50 regularly appeared on the turn.

From 1980-1981 South Western Division Carriage Working book. More details or other workings (with more passenger vehicles) can be supplied

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Someone commented about passenger coaches being attached to mail trains and it instantly triggered a memory of a ' network day' in the 1980's.

For those who are not as old as me; these were days at the start of ' network southeast' when you could travel anywhere on the network for 24 hours for a low price if you had a network card.

Network Days were open to anyone regardless of whether or not they held a season ticket of any kind - in fact the target market was people who didn't usually travel by train.

The Network Day ticket gave unlimited travel for the day within the NSE area, officially only on NSE trains but a blind eye was frequently turned by InterCity between Oxford and Reading. The first Network Days were the biggest bargain ever, only £1 then £3 but shortly before they stopped them the price had crept up to about £10 or £15, although that was of course still a fantastic bargain.

 

[JonathanH]

I wonder if they'll do the same thing when GBR takes over...

Clearly not because it is a very different railway now.

Northern's newspaper offer is about as close as it is going to get and that doesn't involve any unusual trains or relief services because the demand is better spread.

 

[55002]

I’d like to say it was June 1986, remember getting 0447 (ish) train from Newark to Peterborough then across to Cambridge, and down to Liverpool St. not sure where where we went after that..was a long day i know that!

 

[pdeaves]

As well as 'normal' routes/trains, some specials were added. I did a class 58 Oxford-Bletchley. After that, the day went wrong as the 'lead' in my group misread the timetable and we were supposed to leave Bletchley before we arrived.

I gather that Weymouth was seriously crowded on these days as 'everyone' wanted to travel as far as possible and, at the same time, have a cheap day at the seaside.

 

[D6130]

02.30 Waterloo-Portsmouth & Southsea M-Sa: 33 (73?) + 2 NDV+ BSK + 4 NDV + NJV.
03.40 Waterloo-Petersfield/Aldershot SuO: Loco (*) + 2 NJV + NDV + TSO + 2 NJV + 3 NQV

The 02 30 Waterloo-Portsmouth & Southsea on weekdays was booked for a 33, which returned the empty stock to Clapham Yard at 08 50
The 03 40 Waterloo-Petersfield/Aldershot was booked for a 73 (prior to the arrival of class 50s at Waterloo). Going back further to pre-1977, it was booked a 74....with a 73 taking the Aldershot portion from Woking. It also ran on weekdays, but without the passenger accommodation. IIRC, the 02 45 Waterloo-Bournemouth/Portsmouth & Southsea also carried a passenger BSK in the Bournemouth portion.

The 01 35 Waterloo-Yeovil Junction papers had more passenger coaches than vans, as it formed the first Up morning commuter service back to Waterloo. IIRC, it was formed BG-BSK-CK-FK-TSO-BSK-BG (Load 7 VB/DH) and on Summer Saturdays it continued working for the rest of the day on the Waterloo-Salisbury circuit to release TCs for strengthening the Waterloo-Bournemouth-Weymouth services.

 

[Beebman]

I gather that Weymouth was seriously crowded on these days as 'everyone' wanted to travel as far as possible and, at the same time, have a cheap day at the seaside.

On one of the days I went to Waterloo with the intention of going to Weymouth but the train I went for was jammed full even well before the departure time. However just at the moment an extra for Portsmouth Harbour was announced and seeing that it was a 12 HAP formation I went for that and I had the frontmost open saloon to myself for the whole journey.

Although I had no plans to continue to the Isle of Wight, when I arrived at Portsmouth Harbour the queue for the ferry stretched out of sight - were the tickets valid on it? (I can't remember exactly where I went after then, I think I might have gone to Southampton and then to Basingstoke and Reading.)

 

[telstarbox]

Clearly not because it is a very different railway now.

Northern's newspaper offer is about as close as it is going to get and that doesn't involve any unusual trains or relief services because the demand is better spread.

Yes, if Charing Cross on a Sunday is anything to go by then a cheap offer would reduce revenue rather than bringing more in!

 

[Gloster]

I only listed those with a single passenger coach: the Yeovil had six and the 02.45 to Bournemouth a 3 Set L (plus three BSK for Portsmouth Harbour on Mondays). The 22.52 to Weymouth had nine SX, five SO including two BSK.

3 Set L - BSK + CK + BSK, in theory. In practice, any combination that provided roughly the correct proportions of van space/1st Class/2nd Class could appear: I saw one photo recently where it was TSO + CK + BG.

 

[kentrailman]

Thanks for all your help and suggestions ! My memory must have been `corrupted` since the event ! I am certain it was a single passenger carriage though, or even just half a carriage / Brake compartment ! Fairly sure it had compartments, but it must have been in the early hours and not just after Midnight after all ! Perhaps i went back and forth to Gatwick first to fil the time from Midnight !

I have found one of the leaflets in my collection which does confirm that although valid on the Isle of Wight, you would have had to buy a ferry ticket, at least in whatever year this example was!

 

[30907]

The 22.52 to Weymouth had nine SX, five SO including two BSK.

Surprising, as I remember it as having a 3-set plus the Mail vans and other vans. Would have varied slightly over the years of course, but 9?

 

[Ken H]

02.30 Waterloo-Portsmouth & Southsea M-Sa: 33 (73?) + 2 NDV+ BSK + 4 NDV + NJV.
03.40 Waterloo-Petersfield/Aldershot SuO: Loco (*) + 2 NJV + NDV + TSO + 2 NJV + 3 NQV

* Not sure what the loco was, possibly a 33, but a few years later a 50 regularly appeared on the turn.

From 1980-1981 South Western Division Carriage Working book. More details or other workings (with more passenger vehicles) can be supplied

Any details of the Deal vans with BSK? London Br or Victoria, not sure

 

[alistairlees]

Surprising, as I remember it as having a 3-set plus the Mail vans and other vans. Would have varied slightly over the years of course, but 9?

I did think the same too. I remember this being vans and some coaches - but not nine. It was a useful move to get to the 01.55 Southampton - Bristol TM (all vans and one BSK or something; not always advertised).

 

[Gloster]

Surprising, as I remember it as having a 3-set plus the Mail vans and other vans. Would have varied slightly over the years of course, but 9?

The 1980-1981 formation was NJV for Southampton; NSX + NTX + NJV + 2 BSK for Weymouth; NJV for Bournemouth; NDV + NJV for Portsmouth & Southsea (detached at Eastleigh). At Southampton 2 NKV were attached at the rear: both came off at Bournemouth, with the front one going to Berth and the rear one going on to Weymouth on the front of the 02.15 Waterloo News.

Any details of the Deal vans with BSK? London Br or Victoria, not sure

Sorry, I only have the South Western Division workings.

 

[cambsy]

I remember network days, they were great, my memory is very vague, as was about 15-17 at the time, so can t remember train times etc, but i had class 50’s on the Waterloo-Exeter route, and 50’s out of Padidngton, one of my favourite runs, was a 50 out of Waterloo, to Salisbury, for a service to Brighton, which had a 50 to Portsmouth, then a 73 to Brighton, can anyone remember this service? .

 

[GRALISTAIR]

The 03:27 Victoria to Hastings paper train always had a mk1 brake second closest to the loco (73) as far as Eastbourne where the loco ran round and took the back van to Hastings to unload, before going to Ore to run round then back to Eastbourne and finally Brighton Top Yard.

I did one. Started Wolverton. Got to Euston, walked to Victoria for the vans (or was it London bridge?) to Deal. 73, a brake composite and some vans. Guard checked all passes! Nice run. But it was rammed. Fiddled round kent, marsh link and along the coast all the way to wool. Nice thumper on Pompey - Southampton. Did basingstoke-reading too I think. Late train back to wolvey.

Always prized because it was very rarely a 73/1 or 73/2 of course but every time I took them they were 73/0. The Deal one left earlier 03.00 iirc but the train was in the platform usually at 1am so you could board and get some sleep in normal times. On these there were 1 or 2 maximum passenger carriages my 1 compartment stock.

However, my memory played tricks and on the question posed by the OP on the Network SE special day I cheated and got 73110 leaving Waterloo around 23.30 and it crossed over to the new day and the loco was changed at Eastleigh to 33111 which I took to Southampton and then 33110 back to Eastleigh. All ram jam full. The date I have recorded is 21/11 - 22/11 1986