Network Rail RMT dispute settled.

[Silverlinky]

So the rail industry continues to be a drain on the national economy through a settlement that appears to be far higher than the one most health unions are recommending for acceptance by their members.

Which was the point I was making.....it "appears to be" because it is being dressed up as a much higher payrise than it actually is! The bottom line is its 5% for 2022 and 4% for 2023.

With back pay, an earlier anniversary date, pay-rises for two financial years, and additional top ups for the lowest paid, it equates to 14 or 15% on their salary for those lowest paid over two years (or possibly four if you include the fact that many staff received nothing in 2020 or 2021)

 

[eldomtom2]

The RMT members have accepted the NR deal put forward end of.

And how do you know that the contract says the RMT will not oppose changes to working practices?

 

[Captain Chaos]

Far from being a drain on taxpayers, research shows that the railways benefit the wider economy 2:1 from any subsidy received from the taxpayer (&since it was government and psychotic Labour that pushed for the lockdowns that damaged the industry- you broke it, you fix it)! Ask anyone in hospitality or entertainment how much they've suffered during strike days and you'll get the point...

Indeed. I went to see To Kill a Mockingbird on Saturday and was discussing this with the Ushers. They were, despite being impacted, rather supportive of the strikes and hopeful of a positive outcome soon. A functioning and useful railway system is quite critical to the nighttime economy of London.

 

[Krokodil]

There are more restrictions on the NR card.

No Caledonian Sleeper, Arriva Rail London, Eurostar, Grand Central, Hull Trains, London Underground or Elizabeth Line discounts.

It's also online only.

Though non-safeguarded TOC staff don't get PRIV on London Underground or the Elizabeth Line core either, except where it forms a middle part of a through National Rail journey across London. Isn't PRIV on Eurostar only for safeguarded staff? The rest of us using FIP.

It's a step forward towards equality but I still think that they should have got FIP.

So the rail industry continues to be a drain on the national economy through a settlement that appears to be far higher than the one most health unions are recommending for acceptance by their members.

What are you wibbling on about? RMT members working for NR have accepted 5% for this year, and 4% for the next. Health unions have been offered 5% for the year, plus some one-off bonuses.

 

[alxndr]

With back pay, an earlier anniversary date, pay-rises for two financial years, and additional top ups for the lowest paid, it equates to 14 or 15% on their salary for those lowest paid over two years (or possibly four if you include the fact that many staff received nothing in 2020 or 2021)

For those eligible and intending to move onto the ex-Carillion/GTRM contracts this deal is actually worse than the previous as the window to transfer has been pushed back which negates the earlier backpay date (as well as impacting on pensions).

 

[DMckduck97]

The mood has changed I feel last time, the first time around they were tactical with strike days, this second one has been an all out attack with lots of staff losing 25% of a four weekly packet. I think you’ll be surprised now NR is done how hard getting a third mandate will be. Not saying it’s impossible but it’s gonna be hard

You sure? Some TOCs would take what's on the table. Absolutely no chance of agreeing at our place. Our mandate was stronger 2nd time around

 

[gazzaa2]

Also contributes to the national economy both directly and indirectly, the benefits of which outweigh costs

Yeah, rail industry is called a drain on the economy but then strikes are claimed to cost the economy billions in lost revenue for business/leisure/hospitality etc. Which is it?

 

[800001]

But you can only buy the discounted tickets on line.


Indeed - but since launch TfW has been added so hopefully more can be added in due course

I wasn’t aware it was online only. Wonder why they are only allowed to do that and not purchase from Travel Centres.

 

[ainsworth74]

When were there last wild cat strikes in the UK?

We had some round here last year:

Hundreds of chemical plant contract workers walked out in a row over pay rates, causing rush hour traffic queues at sites across Teesside. Protesters stopped motorists going in and out of Wilton, Teesport, sites of Redcar's Trunk Road and Seal Sands from 6.30am on Wednesday morning.

While campaigners kept disruption to a minimum, claiming the unofficial protest was "peaceful", they have warned there could be much bigger delays in the coming weeks if the national row over NAECI [National Agreement for the Engineering Construction Industry] 'blue book' pay rates is not resolved. Around 200 contract workers including scaffolders and maintenance workers stopped traffic at the three entrances to Wilton.

Traffic queues as hundreds hold wildcat strikes across Teesside

Protesters in pay row stopped motorists going in and out of Wilton, Teesport, sites of Redcar's Trunk Road and Seal Sands

www.gazettelive.co.uk

Not for the first time either!

 

[ComUtoR]

Doesn't help at one of the worst paid TOCs who already have DOO

That TOC already has DOO agreed across their entire network. It's already included in the Driver terms.and conditions. The Guards there have been on borrowed time for years but there has never been the appetite to extend DOO

 

[Timetraveller]

I wasn’t aware it was online only. Wonder why they are only allowed to do that and not purchase from Travel Centres.

Yes it's online only. Cannot purchase at ticket offices, travel centres or on board trains.

 

[exbrel]

This has unsettled a lot of guards at my TOC…… They feel like this could be their death nail

didn't mick say on 11/1/23 in the metro "we will never have driver only operated trains while i'm general secretary,or while the rmt exists"... mmmm.

 

[3RDGEN]

I wasn’t aware it was online only. Wonder why they are only allowed to do that and not purchase from Travel Centres.

With Travel Centres / Offices down for closure they aren't going to want to encourage direct purchases, it's online or nothing like high street banks etc.

It's mentioned Grand Central aren't included, they didn't allow safeguarded staff until a few years back so maybe in time they will join up too.

 

[Goldfish62]

We had some round here last year:

Traffic queues as hundreds hold wildcat strikes across Teesside

Protesters in pay row stopped motorists going in and out of Wilton, Teesport, sites of Redcar's Trunk Road and Seal Sands

www.gazettelive.co.uk

Not for the first time either!

Granted. But that's somewhat different.

Any suggested wildcat strikes would stick two fingers up to a democratic vote by the RMT and the union would have be seen to condemn the staff and not represent them if they were dismissed. Any other course of action risks destroying the union.

 

[Bald Rick]

I will listen to Mick Lynch on R4 shortly, but I must emphasise that if Network Rail members will receive the same travel privileges as TOC members for the first time since privatisation, then it certainly wasn’t for no gain.

the travel was in the deal when it was initially offered. Subsequent strike action had no impact on that part of the offer.

Has anything changed regarding eligibility to vote or staff numbers? The latest referendum has 18,302 eligible to vote down from 21,053 in the November 2022 ballot (available here).

A drop of 13% over 4 months is pretty sizeable so wondering what's changed, suppose it could be people leaving the union but that seems a really high number of leavers.

Yes, many people have left the RMT, although I would be surprised if it was as many as implied by these numbers.

Pay dispute comes up again in October.

Pay negotiations you mean. A little early to suggest it will be a dispute.

Far from being a drain on taxpayers, research shows that the railways benefit the wider economy 2:1 from any subsidy received from the taxpayer

On average yes. That doesn’t mean that every £ of subsidy results in £2 of wider benefit. For some subsidies it’s 1p subsidy for £100 benefit, in others it’s the other way round, and every point in between.

 

[43066]

On average yes. That doesn’t mean that every £ of subsidy results in £2 of wider benefit. For some subsidies it’s 1p subsidy for £100 benefit, in others it’s the other way round, and every point in between.

The key point really is that average, though. The railway overall makes a significant net economic contribution, and doesn’t even cost that much in the scheme of things. This is why freezing budgets is a bad decision, and ultimately self defeating if it stunts passenger numbers.

AIUI we also subsidise ours rather less than some other European countries (including Switzerland!).

 

[LAX54]

Interesting - lots of people on twitter celebrating this as a huge win and saying the workers have won, and that with a 14.4% pay rise and the government have capitulated

14.4% is for those on the very lowest grade, the % gets smaller as the salary increases, til you get to 35K then it tops out at 9.2% overall, but the travel facilities staff now get (Priv rate) will be valuable for many too.

I thought it was 9.2% to 14.4% depending on salary over 2 years
Only the lower paid are getting what works out at 14.4%

Apparently 76% voted in favour of the offer.

12.047+/- Yes, 3,709+/- No votes cast 15,756 eligible to vote 18,302

 

[Krokodil]

With Travel Centres / Offices down for closure they aren't going to want to encourage direct purchases, it's online or nothing like high street banks etc.

It's mentioned Grand Central aren't included, they didn't allow safeguarded staff until a few years back so maybe in time they will join up too.

Why not just add NR staff to the same databases as the TOC staff though? Rather than coming up with a new category.

 

[Starmill]

Why not just add NR staff to the same databases as the TOC staff though? Rather than coming up with a new category.

Because, by not issuing a physical card, they're marked as "outsiders" who are less likely be waved through for free travel where not entitled. Also means the companies who objected do not face the substantial risk of free travel being provided on the traditional "gentleman's agreement" basis. Companies like Hull Trains wouldn't want to be giving out loads of free or heavily discounted travel unless there's some benefit in it for their staff, this wouldn't offer any such benefits.

 

[Bald Rick]

Because, by not issuing a physical card

There is a physical card….

 

[Kite159]

There is a physical card….

Is the actual card any different in design compared to a TOC Priv-card?

 

[Bald Rick]

Is the actual card any different in design compared to a TOC Priv-card?

yes, a bit.

 

[Starmill]

yes, a bit.

OK then, a card that provides an entitlement unsupported by a ticket. I also note the non-denial of the actual point.

 

[43066]

Because, by not issuing a physical card, they're marked as "outsiders" who are less likely be waved through for free travel where not entitled. Also means the companies who objected do not face the substantial risk of free travel being provided on the traditional "gentleman's agreement" basis. Companies like Hull Trains wouldn't want to be giving out loads of free or heavily discounted travel unless there's some benefit in it for their staff, this wouldn't offer any such benefits.

I can’t believe this is the real reason, it all seems unbelievably petty in the scheme of things.

There is a physical card….

Any idea why, as above, they couldn’t have just replicated the non-safeguarded-TOC-employee arrangements?

 

[Bald Rick]

OK then, a card that provides an entitlement unsupported by a ticket. I also note the non-denial of the actual point.

Sorry, I’m really tired so not sure what you mean. But:

1) there is a physical card (made of card) that demonstrates entitlement
2) that card isn’t a ticket
3) holders of said card need to show it with their ticket when inspected
4) tickets using this card are online purchases only

Any idea why, as above, they couldn’t have just replicated the non-safeguarded-TOC-employee arrangements?

No idea.

 

[LowLevel]

It is definitely a physical card for NR staff.

 

[Horizon22]

OK then, a card that provides an entitlement unsupported by a ticket. I also note the non-denial of the actual point.

You mean like any railcard? Bit confused by this point.

 

[43066]

No idea.

As if we needed any more complexity in staff ticketing arrangements!

I even had an RPI try to suggest my RST Season Smartcard wasn’t valid for travel the other day. I realise they’re new, but that’s hardly ideal.

Adding more permutations will only make this kind of thing more likely.

 

[CAF397]

As if we needed any more complexity in staff ticketing arrangements!

I even had an RPI try to suggest my RST Season Smartcard wasn’t valid for travel the other day. I realise they’re new, but that’s hardly ideal.

Adding more permutations will only make this kind of thing more likely.

I arrived at a staffed station, which had closed early, to buy a priv to travel. As the ticket office was closed I went down to the platform and was going to ask the guard of the train to sell me one.

Only there were revenue staff on the platform, so I asked them to sell me one. "you can't buy them off us, you need to go back upstairs and get a 'promise to pay' ticket"!

I queried that, saying a priv can be bought on the train if the ticket office is closed or station un-staffed but they were having none of it. So back upstairs I go and got a 'promise to pay' which basically said I have to pay cash at the destination station!

I showed it to the revenue staff who waved me though. They had ticket machines with them. Something lacking in their training.

 

[Kipperthecat]

Who knew that the key to the deal was offering 5 days carers leave , re-jigging the long service deals and ,crucially, giving us the 4% for an extra 3 months ? Yes comrades, these are what your solidarity and strength have won.

Please, spare me the BS. The deal was the same (baring the above) in November when the RMT endorsed a reject vote.

What the union HAS achieved is the weakening of its strength going forward,so this is,at best, a pyrrhic victory. For example :

1) Why say at the outset that not one dispute is settled until all disputes are settled ? NR staff cannot take action on behalf of TOC staff, it is called secondary action and it is ILLEGAL. Sorry to break it to TOC members, but this was always the case. The people you should be angry with are,not NR members, but the hierarchy of the RMT who peddled this myth.

2) As others have pointed out , the RMT has lost members (eligible to vote on 24/05/22 was 21,070. Today's figure is 18,302). A difference of 2,768 ... 13℅ gone ...in less than a year ! Well done. Maggie would be proud.

3) Don't be surprised, if the Signallers want to breakaway from the current collective bargaining procedures. This dispute has been an eye opener for everyone (what about a new union for Mobile Operations Managers And Signalling Staff of MOMsASS)