Network Railcard travelling with 2 others

[rmt4ever]

I understand that a Network Railcard holder can buy discounted tickets for upto 3 others travelling with him.

But what if the Network railcard holder has another travel pass which allows them to travel for free (i.e. a freedom pass) but the other two friends have nothing. Can the network card holder buy two discounted tickets for the two friends?

They will be travelling together throughout.

Thanks

 

[Haywain]

I understand that a Network Railcard holder can buy discounted tickets for upto 3 others travelling with him.

But what if the Network railcard holder has another travel pass which allows them to travel for free (i.e. a freedom pass) but the other two friends have nothing. Can the network card holder buy two discounted tickets for the two friends?

They will be travelling together throughout.

Thanks

No. The discount is for the holder and up to 3 accompanying adults, there is no opt out for the holder.

 

[rmt4ever]

No. The discount is for the holder and up to 3 accompanying adults, there is no opt out for the holder.

Oh dear. I suppose as the network railcard is photo-less the other passenger (same gender) could present it on the very unlikely event of an inspector coming around.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Oh dear. I suppose as the network railcard is photo-less the other passenger (same gender) could present it on the very unlikely event of an inspector coming around.

You could try that, but I wouldn't advise it, as strictly speaking, Network Railcards are NOT transferable, and the inspector might note that the name of the person on the free travel pass is the same as that on the railcard.

 

[fandroid]

You could try that, but strictly speaking, Network Railcards are NOT transferable, and the inspector might well note that the name of the person on the free travel pass is the same as that on the railcard.

Trying that trick would be a great way of inviting prosecution or an expensive out of court settlement! The OP should not even think about it, as it would potentially be spotted in any routine ticket check

 

[Bletchleyite]

No. The discount is for the holder and up to 3 accompanying adults, there is no opt out for the holder.

I would not recommend doing this because the railway does seem to see it this way (noting that the Gold Card has a specific term allowing this if travelling on the season that it comes with). However there is absolutely nothing in the terms and conditions prohibiting buying a ticket for other people travelling with you even if you aren't yourself using a discounted ticket.

If I was legally qualified and had some spare time to have some legal fun, I would seriously consider trying this on and then making a fool of the railway in Court.

https://www.network-railcard.co.uk/help/railcard-terms-conditions/

4. Conditions of use of the Network Railcard

4.1. You must be aged 16 years old or over to purchase a Railcard.

4.2. Network Railcard discounts apply for travel at or after 10.00 Monday to Friday (excluding Public Holidays) and any time on weekends.  Discounts apply to services in the Network Railcard area only (see network-railcard.co.uk/map).

4.3. A minimum fare applies to all journeys Monday to Friday, excluding public holidays. At the time of printing, the minimum fare is £13. The minimum fare is subject to change during the validity of your Railcard - see network-railcard.co.uk for the most up to date information.

4.4. All child fares are subject to a £1 minimum fare at all times.

4.5. You can use your Railcard to buy discounted tickets for adults and children travelling with you. The maximum group size is four adults (aged 16 years and over) including you, and four children aged between 5 and 15 years. The group must travel with you throughout the journey.

4.6. Discounted tickets entitle you to travel in standard class only.

4.7. You will be asked to pay the difference between the price of your discounted ticket and the full price applicable fare (or the Penalty Fare if travelling in the Penalty Fares area) if you travel:


4.7.1. beyond the station for which your ticket is issued; or
4.7.2. to a destination beyond the area shown on the Network Railcard map (network-railcard.co.uk/map), without having first obtained the correct ticket for your journey; or
4.7.3. on a route to which a higher fare applies or at a time when reduced fares do not apply.

You will note that Condition 4.5 states "travelling with you" and "travel with you throughout". It says nothing whatsoever about discounted tickets. As "travelling" is not defined, it would take the "man on the Clapham omnibus" definition which wouldn't include buying a discounted ticket.

I wonder has a prosecution ever been attempted on this? Because I'm not sure it would actually succeed.

Why on earth the railway doesn't simply change 4.5 to say "travelling with you, when you are travelling on a discounted Ticket for the same Journey and are with them throughout the Journey including when entering and leaving the origin and destination stations and passing any gatelines" I have no idea. It seems to like being unclear. But my (unqualified) opinion does think a prosecution would fail based on those terms.

 

[rmt4ever]

Pleased to say the journey went off fine. As expected, no ticket inspectors were come across throughout, so all good.

 

[AM9]

Pleased to say the journey went off fine. As expected, no ticket inspectors were come across throughout, so all good.

So no further forward as to whether it was within the terms of the railcard or not.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Trying that trick would be a great way of inviting prosecution or an expensive out of court settlement! The OP should not even think about it, as it would potentially be spotted in any routine ticket check

I can't see how they'd know. Whilst not advocating breaking rules because they don't know, I still don't see how they'd know?
Unless you have an incredibly unusual name it's perfectly possible for someone to have the same name as you. Unusual to be travelling together, but there is no law (or bylaw!) against it. There's no requirement to carry ID, and with no other proof at all what offence could be written up by an inspector?
As I say, not having the correct travel documents because they won't know isn't a defense, but making sweeping statements that they'll know isn't helpful

 

[AlterEgo]

I can't see how they'd know. Whilst not advocating breaking rules because they don't know, I still don't see how they'd know?
Unless you have an incredibly unusual name it's perfectly possible for someone to have the same name as you. Unusual to be travelling together, but there is no law (or bylaw!) against it. There's no requirement to carry ID, and with no other proof at all what offence could be written up by an inspector?
As I say, not having the correct travel documents because they won't know isn't a defense, but making sweeping statements that they'll know isn't helpful

Having the same name would be a pretty big red flag and I'd expect an RPI to ask further questions.

"Can I see your railcard please?" (removes it for inpection)
"Is this your railcard?"
"Where did you buy it from?"
"When was this?"
"And can I see your freedom pass please? Which address is this registered to sir?"

It was a stupid idea of the OP and one which can land you in court for saving a few quid. An inspector doesn't need proof of an offence and you're right they couldn't glean that at the time, but they just need suspicion.

The forum is full of people who think they are very clever on nine occasions and then look very stupid when unmasked on the tenth.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Having the same name would be a pretty big red flag and I'd expect an RPI to ask further questions.

"Can I see your railcard please?" (removes it for inpection)
"Is this your railcard?"
"Where did you buy it from?"
"When was this?"
"And can I see your freedom pass please? Which address is this registered to sir?"

It was a stupid idea of the OP and one which can land you in court for saving a few quid. An inspector doesn't need proof of an offence and you're right they couldn't glean that at the time, but they just need suspicion.

The forum is full of people who think they are very clever on nine occasions and then look very stupid when unmasked on the tenth.

But the T&C don't expressly prohibit this. Maybe they meant to, we can't possibly know. My guess is that they didn't envisage this scenario cropping up. But without them clarifying the T&C we can't know what they meant to permit.
As stated above, it is easy enough for the conditions to be changed if that is what they meant.
Equally, the Gold Card has a condition expressly permitting it.
This has neither and people will draw their own conclusions.
For what it's worth if someone did get reported and got a solicitor, I think the railways would drop the case and change the T&Cs

 

[fandroid]

Presumably the Gold Card concession logically can only apply when travelling on the route for which the season ticket element is valid.

It would be daft for family/friends of holders to always be forced to pay full fare on just one route in the whole Southeast (or for the Gold Card holder to pay again on a route for which they already held a season ticket).

It's a concession that comes with the specific Gold Card territory.

In the OP's case the fellow traveller discounts are related to the Network Railcard and not to the quasi-season-ticket (Freedom Pass) the OP holds