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I created this thread seeking advice from fellow on train crews after receiving my diagnosis of Autism, while the diagnosis doesn't change who I am, it gives me the opportunity (now I know what makes me different) to be able make changes to my life to make my work life a little bit easier.
This forum sees questions asked from people with a diagnosis/living with a nurodiversity applying for posts I would hope this thread can be somewhere where these questions can be asked for both new starters and current employees living with a nurodiversity or learning to live with one can answer or ask questions themselves.
Original opening post below.
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I am recently diagnosed as Autistic, I would very much like to speak with fellow on-train crew about experiences and coping mechanisms, if your happy to share please PM me. Many thanks.
Hello! I am also diagnosed with Autism (with a side helping of ADHD), and work as a Guard. I find that the role itself works really well, thanks to a lot of monotonous and repetitive work, as well as the rigid structure of the rules and such. My manager is very understanding, and asked me what would help me at work. I advised that eye contact would be difficult for me, and I know we are assessed on eye contact by Customer Service assessors/hidden shoppers, so she put it on my file so I am not marked down for it. ^^
As for coping strategies… thankfully I’ve been okay so far, but I always carry around a bottle of water, and always have a fidget thingy to play with. I always take a lot of notes on my schedule card, for what is coming up (CCTV, principal stations, etc.) and delays and reasons. These tend to be all I need to get me through the day!
I'd suggest thinking about driving, I was diagnosed with autism in early childhood and got a lot of extra support with my school education, driving was my first job on the railway when I joined in my mid-twenties. After having a chat with the doctor about autism at my initial medical he seemed to think that having it would make me better at the job. I've been a driver and driver instructor on suburban work and am now a driver on intercity work since we don't take an instructor role with us when we move TOC.
Since the OP has asked about coping mechanisms, I've not found myself needing any. I chose to swap with a colleague so I work semi-permanent late shifts since sticking with one sleeping pattern is easier than rotational shifts but many traincrew do that. So far I've found the job to be a good fit, more fun and better T&Cs than any job I had previously. Never underestimate how nice it is to be in a job where each day is a new day, I used to work in project analysis in financial services and that I found to be much more stressful 95% of the time with all the politics and schmoozing and working on the same projects for months on end.
I don't think I'd enjoy being a guard or train manager, dealing with the general public face-to-face 35 hours a week wouldn't be my cup of tea.
Hello! I am also diagnosed with Autism (with a side helping of ADHD), and work as a Guard. I find that the role itself works really well, thanks to a lot of monotonous and repetitive work, as well as the rigid structure of the rules and such. My manager is very understanding, and asked me what would help me at work. I advised that eye contact would be difficult for me, and I know we are assessed on eye contact by Customer Service assessors/hidden shoppers, so she put it on my file so I am not marked down for it. ^^
As for coping strategies… thankfully I’ve been okay so far, but I always carry around a bottle of water, and always have a fidget thingy to play with. I always take a lot of notes on my schedule card, for what is coming up (CCTV, principal stations, etc.) and delays and reasons. These tend to be all I need to get me through the day!
Hello, thanks for the reply, it's really appreciated. Although only recently diagnosed, obviously I have been autistic all my life. What I find most surprising and I am struggling with the most is how much I mask and how tiring it actually is. Someone once described me as "born tired", also discovering autistics are also generally fatigued easier as well surprised me but also answered a lot of questions.
I too find the regularity of the diagrams and strict adherence to the rules helpful, I make eye contact out of habit but I have always found it difficult not to have a "resting bitch face" (as my autistic daughter calls it)....
I make full use of notes on my diagrams and make plenty of notes, I have a fidget toy in my pocket that I use when I feel that my autism is feeling ''big" (if that makes sense).
What I am struggling with is anxiety, like a lot of nurodiverse people, I have a history of depression and anxiety, however I find it's getting no better (especially as I get older) and the apprehension of dealing with on train anti social issues (and day to day issues as well) leads to an unhealthy amount of catastrophizing, do you have any coping strategies?
As a side note to anyone reading this, while I appreciate all forms of positive input, what I don't need is comments like "you've picked the wrong job" or "your just going to need to deal with it" etc... I have no intention of responding to that and I have decades of dealing with anti social behaviours in previous jobs and careers, the issue is having a diagnosis makes me more aware of this and I don't want my autism to define everything that I am.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
I'd suggest thinking about driving, I was diagnosed with autism in early childhood and got a lot of extra support with my school education, driving was my first job on the railway when I joined in my mid-twenties. After having a chat with the doctor about autism at my initial medical he seemed to think that having it would make me better at the job. I've been a driver and driver instructor on suburban work and am now a driver on intercity work since we don't take an instructor role with us when we move TOC.
Since the OP has asked about coping mechanisms, I've not found myself needing any. I chose to swap with a colleague so I work semi-permanent late shifts since sticking with one sleeping pattern is easier than rotational shifts but many traincrew do that. So far I've found the job to be a good fit, more fun and better T&Cs than any job I had previously. Never underestimate how nice it is to be in a job where each day is a new day, I used to work in project analysis in financial services and that I found to be much more stressful 95% of the time with all the politics and schmoozing and working on the same projects for months on end.
I don't think I'd enjoy being a guard or train manager, dealing with the general public face-to-face 35 hours a week wouldn't be my cup of tea.
Hi, thanks for your reply, again it's really appreciated.
I have attempted to go down the driving route, however I also have dyslexia, my processing speeds are not fast enough to pass the Psychometrics (it took me a few goes to pass the guards).
You mentioned the shifts, like a lot of autistics I do suffer from bouts of insomnia, last week was the first time (in my life) I wasn't able to go into work due to lack of sleep, we have a notorious diagram where you finish a late on Saturday night/Sunday morning and go into an early on Monday, even those with good sleeping hygiene struggle with that one... I have worked shifts previously, but they were more structured (4 on 4 off 7-7 etc) none of the weirdness of railway shift patterns, I swear they use crystals and divining rods for some of the links . I will contemplate asking about accommodated shifts in the future.
I can (generally) cope with the public, masking all my life has helped, but certainly as I get older the mask slips ....
You mentioned the shifts, like a lot of autistics I do suffer from bouts of insomnia, last week was the first time (in my life) I wasn't able to go into work due to lack of sleep, we have a notorious diagram where you finish a late on Saturday night/Sunday morning and go into an early on Monday, even those with good sleeping hygiene struggle with that one... I have worked shifts previously, but they were more structured (4 on 4 off 7-7 etc) none of the weirdness of railway shift patterns, I swear they use crystals and divining rods for some of the links . I will contemplate asking about accommodated shifts in the future.
I can (generally) cope with the public, masking all my life has helped, but certainly as I get older the mask slips ....
The easiest way would probably be to put an email out asking for a mutual swap, that way you can avoid the accommodations process, your local reps should have an idea of how mutual swaps work at your depot. I go for permanent lates since I go to bed at the coldest, quietest part of the day and wake up once it's daylight, however as a guard you'd probably be dealing with more anti-social behaviour on lates. From my experience on the driving side, the single folks go for permanent lates and those with families prefer permanent earlies.
The easiest way would probably be to put an email out asking for a mutual swap, that way you can avoid the accommodations process, your local reps should have an idea of how mutual swaps work at your depot. I go for permanent lates since I go to bed at the coldest, quietest part of the day and wake up once it's daylight, however as a guard you'd probably be dealing with more anti-social behaviour on lates. From my experience on the driving side, the single folks go for permanent lates and those with families prefer permanent earlies.
Yes, we have a few mutual swaps, it's something I am considering as our depot is rather top heavy with accommodated shifts so could be an easier route.
My body clock deals with lates and earlies ok (with a preference for lates) just not the swapping between the two. As you say a higher chance of the anti social behaviours on lates but for me it's about learning some new coping strategies to deal with them (after all they are not on every train every day).
I know this thread is talking about Guards/Train Managers, but there are a couple of articles here about Drivers with autism and their experiences, which may relate:
Freight driver Helen Gander on her experience with neurodiversity and driving trains
aslef.org.uk
...When I was 18, I got a job on the railway, working on the station platform as a dispatcher, and this was where I really began to feel at ease. The routine, having a roster for me to work to, a timetable for the trains, a despatch procedure, a cleaning routine, every day was a system, I knew exactly what I had to do, and when and how. It was perfect...
Amy Nicholson writes about autism and hidden disability for Autism Acceptance Week
aslef.org.uk
...Luckily for me, I ended up driving trains. My favourite train I have ever driven? Why, an HST! I absolutely love my job. It ticks all the boxes for a neurodivergent like me. We follow strict rules, we are given a diagram to follow, we don’t have a phone ringing at us constantly, we make the decisions (most of the time!) and it is generally repetitive. I have my own ‘bubble’, which is my cab, and can shut the world away once I step into it...
I'm not a guard or train manager, I'm trying to be a driver but I have been diagnosed with ADHD and have been referred for an ASD assessment.
It's really great to hear peoples experiences of working on the railways as a neurodivergent person, thank you for sharing.
I was worried about disclosing this during my applications as it might put people off but I contacted Northern's HR team and they have been so helpful and encouraging.
I think generally speaking, attitudes are shifting and its much easier to have these conversations and although you still come across the odd person with a negative comment, these seem to be less common.
If you are suffering from anxiety, depression or OCD and struggle with intrusive thoughts then I can recommend this book
Buy Overcoming Unwanted Intrusive Thoughts by Sally M. Winston, Martin N. Seif from Waterstones today! Click and Collect from your local Waterstones or get FREE UK delivery on orders over £25.
A great thread, as there are a number of autistic people on the railway, including quite a few who are active on this forum (I suspect autism is somewhat overrepresented amongst the railway workforce, in fact, in parallel with the wider enthusiast community). Neurodiversity is something all workplaces should be talking about, and talking seriously.
As a side note to anyone reading this, while I appreciate all forms of positive input, what I don't need is comments like "you've picked the wrong job" or "your just going to need to deal with it" etc... I have no intention of responding to that and I have decades of dealing with anti social behaviours in previous jobs and careers, the issue is having a diagnosis makes me more aware of this and I don't want my autism to define everything that I am.
Nobody should ever say that. On the other hand, as you yourself know better than I, anti social behaviour does appear to be getting worse, and that is something to consider. A job role also doesn’t define everything you are, and jobs can change over time. So, while it’s good to consider coping strategies, you might also quite reasonably decide to move into something else you prefer.
I am not autistic, but I certainly wouldn’t be able to deal with some of the appalling behaviour our guards have to put up with nowadays. Based on my understanding/experience of the condition I can well see why @Economist believes driving may be a better natural fit, although not in every case, of course.
I think generally speaking, attitudes are shifting and its much easier to have these conversations and although you still come across the odd person with a negative comment, these seem to be less common.
100%. The railway has made a lot of progress in this area. We now have neurodiversity champions and it’s something that is brought into D&I training. There’s still more that could be done, of course.
I am recently diagnosed as Autistic, I would very much like to speak with fellow on-train crew about experiences and coping mechanisms, if your happy to share please PM me. Many thanks.
I know this thread is talking about Guards/Train Managers, but there are a couple of articles here about Drivers with autism and their experiences, which may relate:
Thank you for posting these, I certainly can relate, especially to the first (freight driver). I looked on the RMT site, a tad disappointing, just a TUC paper from 2014.... such a shame really
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
I'm not a guard or train manager, I'm trying to be a driver but I have been diagnosed with ADHD and have been referred for and ASD assessment. It's really great to hear peoples experiences of working on the railways as a neurodivergent person, thank you for sharing. I was worried about disclosing this during my applications as it might put people off but I contacted Northern's HR team and they have been so helpful and encouraging. I think generally speaking, attitudes are shifting and its much easier to have these conversations and although you still come across the odd person with a negative comment, these seem to be less common.
If you are suffering from anxiety, depression or OCD and struggle with intrusive thoughts then I can recommend this book
Buy Overcoming Unwanted Intrusive Thoughts by Sally M. Winston, Martin N. Seif from Waterstones today! Click and Collect from your local Waterstones or get FREE UK delivery on orders over £25.
A great thread, as there are a number of autistic people on the railway, including quite a few who are active on this forum (I suspect autism is somewhat overrepresented amongst the railway workforce, in fact, in parallel with the wider enthusiast community). Neurodiversity is something all workplaces should be talking about, and talking seriously.
I do wonder, but I am not totally convinced its over represented, possibly its just under-represnted as whole... It was my wife attending a Autism session at work (NHS) and at the same time we had a safety day with bit covering Autism that set me on this journey (despite knowing our kids are Autistic, we missed that I was ).....
Nobody should ever say that. On the other hand, as you yourself know better than I, anti social behaviour does appear to be getting worse, and that is something to consider. A job role also doesn’t define everything you are, and jobs can change over time. So, while it’s good to consider coping strategies, you might also quite reasonably decide to move into something else you prefer.
Indeed, I have never sat still in one role, never afraid to change, I work to live, not live to work. but now I know what has been causing my anxieties and depression over the years, I am keen to use my knowledge of my nurodivergance to help me cope better, not just at work but in life generally.
100%. The railway has made a lot of progress in this area. We now have neurodiversity champions and it’s something that is brought into D&I training. There’s still more that could be done, of course.
I would add to this thread, as someone who is neurodivergent, one of the best possible jobs you can possibly do is train driving.
Zero customer facing skills are required. You just go in, book on, drive to your diagram. It can actually be quite relaxing/cathertic at times. I barely even wear the uniform, because I want to be anonymous at work, and nobody really cares, because I do the job to a high standard. To the point where my employer trusts me to train up new drivers, which is highly rewarding.
When I key off a unit on the stops in London, the best indication that I’ve done a great job is that there’s no sign I’ve even been there at all. Pull the jumper/hoodie over my head, slam the cab door, and anonymously run for the tube with the passengers.
I have attempted to go down the driving route, however I also have dyslexia, my processing speeds are not fast enough to pass the Psychometrics (it took me a few goes to pass the guards).
I made this comment as having been on this forum for many years and seen countless comments like this; and the nature of humanity (and internet forums in general) there is a small subset of people who have this attitude and it's just not helpful, nor welcome.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
From my own observation of my own depot and surrounding depots, I disagree.
"somewhere on the spectrum" (which I have used myself in the past) is a phrase society needs to stop using. It's a bit early and I haven't woken up enough yet to coherently explain why, but it invalidates an Autistic person's experiences and diagnosis. Again I am not awake enough to be more siciinct (perhaps someone else can explain it better than I), but please please don't take this comment as anything other than a constructive reply.
As an aside (this comment is for anyone reading this thread and not directed at anyone in particular). I commenced this thread because I felt that there just isnt enough dialogue on this forum and in the industry as a whole about staff with Autism, ADHD etc (other nurodiverse conditions are available lol).
We have multiple training opportunities about dealing with neurodiverse passengers, it was even in the last safety day cycle; but very little for staff and management, and the unions don't seem to be any better.
I feel I have stuck my head above the parapet slightly on this, I want this thread to be a safe and constructive place to discuss Autism, ADHD etc.
I made this comment as having been on this forum for many years and seen countless comments like this; and the nature of humanity (and internet forums in general) there is a small subset of people who have this attitude and it's just not helpful, nor welcome.
Not sure where you are based, but I enjoy life much more now I am not at a depot in London or Essex and am surrounded by people without a masculinity problem.
"somewhere on the spectrum" (which I have used myself in the past) is a phrase society needs to stop using. It's a bit early and I haven't woken up enough yet to coherently explain why, but it invalidates an Autistic person's experiences and diagnosis. Again I am not awake enough to be more siciinct (perhaps someone else can explain it better than I), but please please don't take this comment as anything other than a constructive reply.
I have mild Autism, ADHD and Dyspraxia. I used to train new staff and can honestly say that normally the people I would put "somewhere on the spectrum" or had been previously diagnosed were generally the better staff. The rules and procedures compliance is really helpful in our industry, now leading to myself having a reputation for failing trains but that is another story
In the nicest possible way, since becoming a driver and joining ASLEF, it has been proven to me that you get what you pay for. I hope you will be putting in your membership application soon enough
I generally find this forum (most of the railway staff here at least) won't give any bother. Places like the thread where someone asked a question about the workplace and then didn't like the answers and was insulting future colleagues before even getting an interview is a different matter.
I was drinking in London the other day with one of the members who has posted in this thread and we had a similar conversation about the way the railways attitudes have changed over the last 5-7 years from "naughty kid syndrome" to "ADHD" and how things are moving in the right direction.
I generally find this forum (most of the railway staff here at least) won't give any bother. Places like the thread where someone asked a question about the workplace and then didn't like the answers and was insulting future colleagues before even getting an interview is a different matter.
I assume you're referring to the thread about female drivers, in which case you should probably let that one go. It got shut down because no one was sticking to the topic and I don't want the same thing to happen here while we're having a nice discussion.
I assume you're referring to the thread about female drivers, in which case you should probably let that one go. It got shut down because no one was sticking to the topic and I don't want the same thing to happen here while we're having a nice discussion.
Thanks for sharing. Indeed the self doubt and the apprehension can be crippling can't it. Its interesting, I remember a job nearly 15 years ago it was a big step up (and possibly at the start I had bitten off a little more than I could chew) but I couldnt understand why I felt like I needed to be told I was doing ok. Previous roles I had gone in following training etc. I have since told myself constntly that, yes If I had screwed up I would know about it long before I got to the end of my diagram.
Its not just the job though is it, it leaks into life, add into a strong sense of social justice you cant even drive without worrying about the actions of others. I now carry a magnetic fidget toy that clicks, I use it when I feel tension and apprehension, the sound and feel of the click grounds me.
As an aside (this comment is for anyone reading this thread and not directed at anyone in particular). I commenced this thread because I felt that there just isnt enough dialogue on this forum and in the industry as a whole about staff with Autism, ADHD etc (other nurodiverse conditions are available lol).
We have multiple training opportunities about dealing with neurodiverse passengers, it was even in the last safety day cycle; but very little for staff and management, and the unions don't seem to be any better.
I feel I have stuck my head above the parapet slightly on this, I want this thread to be a safe and constructive place to discuss Autism, ADHD etc.
Things are changing. Probably slowly. There's an industry thing called Rail Wellbeing. I've seen the bottom video on this page, which is a recording of a live event about ADHD, which I found interesting and helpful.
I've not seen the top one on a more generalised neurodiverance yet, but the fact is, it is being brought up in the industry. Early days though I guess...
Thanks for sharing. Indeed the self doubt and the apprehension can be crippling can't it. Its interesting, I remember a job nearly 15 years ago it was a big step up (and possibly at the start I had bitten off a little more than I could chew) but I couldnt understand why I felt like I needed to be told I was doing ok. Previous roles I had gone in following training etc. I have since told myself constntly that, yes If I had screwed up I would know about it long before I got to the end of my diagram.
Its not just the job though is it, it leaks into life, add into a strong sense of social justice you cant even drive without worrying about the actions of others. I now carry a magnetic fidget toy that clicks, I use it when I feel tension and apprehension, the sound and feel of the click grounds me.
Imposter syndrome is really common amongst neurodiverse people. I even felt it when I was diagnosed. "Maybe my psychiatrist got it wrong, maybe I don't have ADHD, maybe I'm just a lazy idiot."
Things are changing. Probably slowly. There's an industry thing called Rail Wellbeing. I've seen the bottom video on this page, which is a recording of a live event about ADHD, which I found interesting and helpful.
I've not seen the top one on a more generalised neurodiverance yet, but the fact is, it is being brought up in the industry. Early days though I guess...
In the nicest possible way, since becoming a driver and joining ASLEF, it has been proven to me that you get what you pay for. I hope you will be putting in your membership application soon enough
I was about to do the whole, I've been a member of the RMT since I joined the railway and Unison for 20 years as a Nurse, then I remembered I'm autistic as I took you literally ,
I've only got one pshycometric life left I'm not convinced I want to try again, time will tell
Possibly two left! There was a recent thread discussing how three lives will be available going forward, in certain circumstances. Sorry I can’t remember which, so am unable to link to it.
I was about to do the whole, I've been a member of the RMT since I joined the railway and Unison for 20 years as a Nurse, then I remembered I'm autistic as I took you literally ,
I was RMT from the day I started until I became a driver.
Why won't you try again? You still have one chance.
If you don't try - you'll never know.
If you go for it with your current TOC then fail/don't like it they will give you your guard job back in most cases (even though they don't tell you this)
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