New Belmond train in England & Wales

[43096]

I wonder whether they will offer a priv discount? .

Only for some staff. Drivers excluded on the basis that they can afford it!

 

[peteb]

I wonder where they'll go in Wales? If up the Pwhelli line where might they stable the train overnight?

 

[DarloRich]

Were you thinking of something like a pair of Bescot's "weekend only" Class 31s?

Near enough! Will need a pair.

 

[Gloster]

I generally accept that this will bring revenue to the railway without much inconvenience or risk. The one negative that I can see is it adds a bit to some people’s vague feeling that railways are an expensive luxury and not for mundane things like getting from A to B. It may only be those who already hold such a view, but it will make it just a little more difficult to shift their view and will give them another thing to bolster their view when passing it on.

 

[Sun Chariot]

My wife and I are mulling where the luxury land cruise would take its patrons.
Whereas Scotland offers a logical itinerary, I can't think which English and Welsh locations warrant visiting during a week's cruise, for the money.

My two most memorable rail journeys - over the US Rockies on the Cumbres & Toltec Scenic Railroad / up India's Mount Ooty on the Nilghiri Blue Mountain railway - cost me a tiny fraction of Belmond's asking price.

Personally, I'd spend it on a high quality life enriching trip to Africa or South America.

 

[fgwrich]

I generally accept that this will bring revenue to the railway without much inconvenience or risk. The one negative that I can see is it adds a bit to some people’s vague feeling that railways are an expensive luxury and not for mundane things like getting from A to B. It may only be those who already hold such a view, but it will make it just a little more difficult to shift their view and will give them another thing to bolster their view when passing it on.

But, hasn’t it somewhat always been this way, from the days of 1st / 2nd / 3rd class travel, Pullmans and dining coaches? Up to this day LSL has somewhat collared the market across England and Wales but it seems they are popular largely due to their ex BR Traction & Liveries.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Near enough! Will need a pair.

Only using a pair will give the guests more time to take in the sights as they trundle round the country

 

[Sun Chariot]

Only using a pair will give the guests more time to take in the sights as they trundle round the country

I had an extended opportunity to take in the stark majesty of the Pennines, when the 31/4 at the head of my S&C service (1984) expired.
For that reason, those paying patrons play loco roulette and they only get one up front.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

I wonder why Belmond failed in Ireland - one would think it might have attracted wealthy Americans doing 'the old country'? Any lessons for the GB operation?

 

[DarloRich]

I wonder why Belmond failed in Ireland - one would think it might have attracted wealthy Americans doing 'the old country'? Any lessons for the GB operation?

There are only 3 railway lines ........

 

[Killingworth]

My wife and I are mulling where the luxury land cruise would take its patrons.
Whereas Scotland offers a logical itinerary, I can't think which English and Welsh locations warrant visiting during a week's cruise, for the money.

My two most memorable rail journeys - over the US Rockies on the Cumbres & Toltec Scenic Railroad / up India's Mount Ooty on the Nilghiri Blue Mountain railway - cost me a tiny fraction of Belmond's asking price.

Personally, I'd spend it on a high quality life enriching trip to Africa or South America.

For those with the money the options are available and can be booked from here; https://www.belmond.com/trains/europe/uk/britannic-explorer/journeys

I don't think the journeys will pass the value for money tests of most RailUKforum members, but they don't need very many takers to make it pay.

 

[43096]

Only using a pair will give the guests more time to take in the sights as they trundle round the country

What sights would they see? They'd be in a permanent cloud of clag from Bescot's finest...

 

[D6130]

I wonder why Belmond failed in Ireland - one would think it might have attracted wealthy Americans doing 'the old country'? Any lessons for the GB operation?

ISTR that it was largely due to COVID, although....

There are only 3 railway lines ........

That's a slight exaggeration....but the majority of Irish rail routes pass through fairly boring scenery. Only Dublin-Rosslare, Mallow-Tralee, Dublin-Belfast, Belfast-Derry/Londonderry and Limerick-Waterford can really be described as 'scenic'.

 

[fgwrich]

I wonder why Belmond failed in Ireland - one would think it might have attracted wealthy Americans doing 'the old country'? Any lessons for the GB operation?

There are only 3 railway lines ........

That and Covid. Unfortunately for Belmont, the worst time to launch a luxury landcruise when world travel was somewhat limited.

For those with the money the options are available and can be booked from here; https://www.belmond.com/trains/europe/uk/britannic-explorer/journeys

I don't think the journeys will pass the value for money tests of most RailUKforum members, but they don't need very many takers to make it pay.

Spot on. These kind of tours appeal to those who simply need not ask thee question; How much is this?

 

[D6130]

That and Covid. Unfortunately for Belmont, the worst time to launch a luxury landcruise when world travel was somewhat limited.



Spot on. These kind of tours appeal to those who simply need not ask thee question; How much is this?

I thought that the Belmond Grand Hibernian was launched in 2016 or 2017?

 

[43066]

For those with the money the options are available and can be booked from here; https://www.belmond.com/trains/europe/uk/britannic-explorer/journeys

I don't think the journeys will pass the value for money tests of most RailUKforum members, but they don't need very many takers to make it pay.

Interesting to see prices confirmed to be per person rather than per suite. Wow. It really is aggressively priced - Orient Express type levels, or even slightly above.

They’ve no doubt done their research: I suspect they’re pitching to wealthy Americans, and of course the burgeoning numbers of wealthy Chinese visitors.

 

[Sun Chariot]

For those with the money the options are available and can be booked from here; https://www.belmond.com/trains/europe/uk/britannic-explorer/journeys

Ah - the great destination clichés for the casual tourist. The Lake District, Wales, Cornwall and combinations thereof.
Same view, different wallet.

My wife has opened the link - her utter incredulity has turned the lounge air blue!

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

I thought that the Belmond Grand Hibernian was launched in 2016 or 2017?

Yes, I saw it once in 2019 at Dublin Heuston, stabled and tanking - quite a striking livery with matching loco too.

 

[Elwyn]

Ah - the great destination clichés for the casual tourist. The Lake District, Wales, Cornwall and combinations thereof.
Same view, different wallet.

My wife has opened the link - her utter incredulity has turned the lounge air blue!

"Destination cliches". Are you not being a bit snobbish? If plenty of folk are happy to pay for that itinerary (which overseas visitors may not be familiar with), is there a good commercial reason for not offering it?

For me, McDonalds burgers are dreadful but I fully recognise that others think they are marvellous. Leave folk free to choose. The market will sort itself out. (Perhaps not under Communism of course).

 

[Sun Chariot]

Whilst I agree Ramsgate, Gosport, Heysham, Middlesbrough don't offer the same allure as Keswick and Pembrokeshire, I find it such a shame that the same old tourist destinations get wheeled out.
In this relatively small island of ours, I had hoped the casual tourist would have the opportunity to visit and enjoy others.

 

[Killingworth]

Ah - the great destination clichés for the casual tourist. The Lake District, Wales, Cornwall and combinations thereof.
Same view, different wallet.

My wife has opened the link - her utter incredulity has turned the lounge air blue!

The likely clientele may prefer to travel with persons of similar throwaway wealth for which the food, drink and companionship will overcome delays and the British weather. Mrs Sun Chariot would not feel any affinity with this band of travellers

However those manning, supplying and servicing these services will be happy to relieve them of their money then trickle down economics comes into play.

 

[Sun Chariot]

Mrs Sun Chariot would not feel any affinity with this band of travellers

I'm sure her potty mouth would send them scurrying to their on-train cabins!

 

[32475]

Aimed at the overseas tourist market, the interior design has all the imagination of a 1980s Argos catalogue.

 

[Indigo Soup]

Huge fun having a bath when an emergency stop happens...

The model for these things is generally to park up somewhere overnight, as you can't enjoy the view in darkness and the well-heeled guests don't particularly want their sleep disturbed by running over pointwork at 0200.

 

[bleeder4]

If anyone is watching Alan Cumming's TV series about The Royal Scotsman which airs on Channel 4 on a Sunday night, then you will see exactly which type of customers will book this train. Wealthy Americans who work in banking. Belmond will have no problem selling out this new train, as they already have their mailing list of their existing Royal Scotsman and British Pullman customers. It is also very good timing to cannily release details of this new train exactly while a TV documentary series about their other luxury sleeper train is on UK screens.

 

[GWR Modeller]

I wonder where they'll go in Wales? If up the Pwhelli line where might they stable the train overnight?

For the 3 day Wales excursion: the intended route heads out from Victoria on the SWML under the R. Severn out to Haverfordwest, reverses and heads up the HoW to Shrewsbury, across and up the CC to Porthmadog. Then, back to Craven Arms on the Marches, down to Hereford, and across the Cotswold line to Moreton-in-Marsh, and finally Victoria.

Stabling points appear to be Haverfordwest for the first night (sidings here would accommodate I guess). Second night is said in the write up to be Porthmadog - though there are no spare facilities here for stabling AFAIK, just a passing loop through the station (i.e., platforms 1/2). Pwllheli would be the only possible point I think. Third night suggests the stabling point is Moreton-in-Marsh, though there are sidings here that could be utilised, they appear to have been in an overgrown state for quite some time!

 

[berneyarms]

There are only 3 railway lines ........

There’s a good bit more than that!

 

[43066]

Whilst I agree Ramsgate, Gosport, Heysham, Middlesbrough don't offer the same allure as Keswick and Pembrokeshire, I find it such a shame that the same old tourist destinations get wheeled out.
In this relatively small island of ours, I had hoped the casual tourist would have the opportunity to visit and enjoy others.

I suspect if they charged £11,600 per passenger and took them to Ramsgate they’d have a riot on their hands!

 

[Jan Mayen]

I suspect if they charged £11,600 per passenger and took them to Ramsgate they’d have a riot on their hands!

In Ramsgate? Or on the train?

For the 3 day Wales excursion: the intended route heads out from Victoria on the SWML under the R. Severn out to Haverfordwest, reverses and heads up the HoW to Shrewsbury, across and up the CC to Porthmadog. Then, back to Craven Arms on the Marches, down to Hereford, and across the Cotswold line to Moreton-in-Marsh, and finally Victoria.

Stabling points appear to be Haverfordwest for the first night (sidings here would accommodate I guess). Second night is said in the write up to be Porthmadog - though there are no spare facilities here for stabling AFAIK, just a passing loop through the station (i.e., platforms 1/2). Pwllheli would be the only possible point I think. Third night suggests the stabling point is Moreton-in-Marsh, though there are sidings here that could be utilised, they appear to have been in an overgrown state for quite some time!

Back in the days when there was a regular steam train running in summer (three days a week?), I was told that it stables in an "overgrown siding" Porthmadog. Is that still available?

 

[GWR Modeller]

Back in the days when there was a regular steam train running in summer (three days a week?), I was told that it stables in an "overgrown siding" Porthmadog. Is that still available?

Ah, yes it might be. I was looking at Google satellite, and it isn't very good quality! Looking back through past imagery on Google Earth it does look like there is a 300m siding extending off the Pwllheli end of platform 2.