New bridge nr Penrhyndeudraeth (Briwet Bridge)

[PaxVobiscum]

Is there anything happening yet with the new bridge across the Afon Dwyryd? The last I heard was in a BBC News item:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10598503

Perhaps someone here knows when work is starting.

New £20m road and rail bridge plan for Penrhyndeudraeth

A £20m road and rail bridge will be built to replace a Grade II listed wooden toll-bridge at Pont Briwet near Penrhyndeudraeth, Gwynedd.
The current privately-owned structure, built in 1860, carries the Cambrian Coast Railway and a narrow road track which only carries cars.
Lorries and buses face an extra eight-mile (12km) road trip from Penrhyndeudraeth to the Harlech road.

By chance, I happened to be one of the first to use the new Porthmadog bypass after it was opened (twice!) in October.

 

[merlodlliw]

Is there anything happening yet with the new bridge across the Afon Dwyryd? The last I heard was in a BBC News item:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10598503

Perhaps someone here knows when work is starting.

By chance, I happened to be one of the first to use the new Porthmadog bypass after it was opened (twice!) in October.

The new bridge is a joint project between Network Rail, Gwynedd Council, Snowdonia National Park and Countryside Council for Wales.

Not heard a thing, but I do know,Gwynedd CC & WG are cash strapped.

This crowd will also be involved http://www.taith.gov.uk/ so the regional transport plan 2009 page of links may give some clue.

 

[PaxVobiscum]

Thanks merlodlliw.

 

[merlodlliw]

Thanks merlodlliw.

Also have a look at this link which is only weeks old, if its not mentioned,its very much on hold http://www.powys.gov.uk/rep_2011-12-14ms1_103a_en.pdf?id=47



Bob

 

[Gareth Marston]

Article about NR in Wales in next edition of RAIL - date of work commencing is Nov 12.

 

[tirphil]

I was aware that the work was going ahead. I just didn't know the start date. Thanks to Gareth for that. I believe that the old bridge (Pont Briwet) will not be kept for any further use whatsoever. Whether this means demolition or not I don't know I'm afraid.

 

[merlodlliw]

Article about NR in Wales in next edition of RAIL - date of work commencing is Nov 12.

Chapter & Verse well done, any mention of Wrexham redouble in your advance copy Gareth






If its in private hands, will they pay for demolition?, anyhow good to see the end of another toll road, 40p is expensive compared to the 5p on the old Porthmadog Cob road before WAG bought it out.

Oh just read the BBC site,
The old bridge will be retained as a footpath

 

[Rogercas]

Some ambiguity about the old bridge.

National Park have given permission for it to be demolished in due course.

http://www.cambrian-news.co.uk/news/i/22174/

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I was aware that the work was going ahead. I just didn't know the start date. Thanks to Gareth for that. I believe that the old bridge (Pont Briwet) will not be kept for any further use whatsoever. Whether this means demolition or not I don't know I'm afraid.

I thought that the present bridge was being retained as a footpath, when the new bridge was operational.

 

[PaxVobiscum]

Article about NR in Wales in next edition of RAIL - date of work commencing is Nov 12.

And thanks Gareth!

Such detail and so quickly - I'm impressed.

 

[merlodlliw]

Some ambiguity about the old bridge.

National Park have given permission for it to be demolished in due course.

http://www.cambrian-news.co.uk/news/i/22174/

Well spotted, but as its listed, it will have to go to public consultation,and if only one person objects, it can take years to remove it.
S N P, is only part of the process,the County Council will have to advertise the demolition of a listed building,then theirs CADW permission to be sought.
I remember Rhyl number one?box next to the H bridge at the far end of platform
one, this was listed and one person from the Midlands objected to its removal, this about 20 years ago, and its still there rotting away.


Bob

 

[The Informer]

Chapter & Verse well done, any mention of Wrexham redouble in your advance copy Gareth






If its in private hands, will they pay for demolition?, anyhow good to see the end of another toll road, 40p is expensive compared to the 5p on the old Porthmadog Cob road before WAG bought it out.

Oh just read the BBC site,
The old bridge will be retained as a footpath

The whispers I hear on the redouble is Colas Rail have been awarded the contract.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Chapter & Verse well done, any mention of Wrexham redouble in your advance copy Gareth

Mark Langman from Wales NR was happy to be interviewed though little was said that I've not seen in public before hand he didn't given anything new away. The articles author was at pains to mention that the Welsh Transport Minister had declined a request to be interviewed. Much else in the article was regurgitating the WG statements on its reprioritised national transport plan but without going into any analysis or asking questions. Many people think that theirs much ambiguity that needs clearing up - the article doesn't provide it.

 

[jones_bangor]

Mark Langman from Wales NR was happy to be interviewed though little was said that I've not seen in public before hand he didn't given anything new away. The articles author was at pains to mention that the Welsh Transport Minister had declined a request to be interviewed. Much else in the article was regurgitating the WG statements on its reprioritised national transport plan but without going into any analysis or asking questions. Many people think that theirs much ambiguity that needs clearing up - the article doesn't provide it.

It's clear that the redoubling at Gowerton gets priority.

However from the National Transport Plan (Wales):
56. Continue to support our flagship Y Gerallt Gymro Holyhead to Cardiff fast train service, and a programme of continued improvements in rail services between north and south Wales.

57. Enhance the capacity of the section of rail between Shrewsbury and Chester via Wrexham, including dualling parts of the line between Chester and Wrexham as appropriate, to permit faster services between north and south Wales, and potentially more frequencies, by 2012. This will enable all north-south services to be routed through Wrexham.

Further, in terms of the timescale:
2011-12 (this year): Continue work on the detailed design to redouble the section of railway between Saltney and Wrexham (NTP reference 57).

2012 – 2013: Construction starts to redouble the railway between Gowerton and Loughor (NTP reference 77).

There appears to be no indication of delivery for Saltney - Wrexham, even beyond 2015.

 

[Gareth Marston]

It's clear that the redoubling at Gowerton gets priority.

However from the National Transport Plan (Wales):
56. Continue to support our flagship Y Gerallt Gymro Holyhead to Cardiff fast train service, and a programme of continued improvements in rail services between north and south Wales.

57. Enhance the capacity of the section of rail between Shrewsbury and Chester via Wrexham, including dualling parts of the line between Chester and Wrexham as appropriate, to permit faster services between north and south Wales, and potentially more frequencies, by 2012. This will enable all north-south services to be routed through Wrexham.

Further, in terms of the timescale:
2011-12 (this year): Continue work on the detailed design to redouble the section of railway between Saltney and Wrexham (NTP reference 57).

2012 – 2013: Construction starts to redouble the railway between Gowerton and Loughor (NTP reference 77).

There appears to be no indication of delivery for Saltney - Wrexham, even beyond 2015.

Ongoing commitments
Working with Network Rail and Arriva Trains Wales to deliver daytime hourly services between Aberystwyth and Shrewsbury (NTP reference 96).

No timescale or definition of what a "daytime hourly service" is.

2011 – 2012
• Continue work on the detailed design to redouble the section of railway between Saltney and Wrexham (NTP reference 57).

No commitment to actual do the work just design it.

 

[Rogercas]

Well spotted, but as its listed, it will have to go to public consultation,and if only one person objects, it can take years to remove it.
S N P, is only part of the process,the County Council will have to advertise the demolition of a listed building,then theirs CADW permission to be sought.

Bob

Point of order Bob. In the National Park the County Council have no mandate whatsoever, the SNP being the sole planning authority.

I'm fairly certain that the application to remove the old bridge was published a couple of months back. Whilst Cadw are obviously involved, I believe that they have accepted the situation simply as retention of the old bridge would block the building of the much wider replacement.

 

[merlodlliw]

Point of order Bob. In the National Park the County Council have no mandate whatsoever, the SNP being the sole planning authority.

I'm fairly certain that the application to remove the old bridge was published a couple of months back. Whilst Cadw are obviously involved, I believe that they have accepted the situation simply as retention of the old bridge would block the building of the much wider replacement.

I was under the impression that to remove a Listed Building or whatever, the County Council has to be involved as the statutory Authority, however I live in an AOB, where the AOB becomes an extra tier of planning.
However Cadw may accept the situation but others can appeal.

If I am wrong in my assumption of a NP, appologies.

 

[pablo]

http://www.gwynedd.gov.uk/gwy_doc.asp?cat=7166&doc=26641&Language=1

Stop guessing. Look at the cross-section in the drawings via the downloads. The whole caboodle is being replaced in stages.

 

[merlodlliw]

http://www.gwynedd.gov.uk/gwy_doc.asp?cat=7166&doc=26641&Language=1

Stop guessing. Look at the cross-section in the drawings via the downloads. The whole caboodle is being replaced in stages.

Thanks for the links Pablo, but it does not convey all of the story or the appeals procedure,which have to be published.

Interesting Network Rail will waive the road toll, do I take it they own the current bridge? and take the toll money.


Bob

 

[PaxVobiscum]

Fascinating stuff. Shame if they demolish the old bridge but one can see why they want to do that.

I'll get some photos this year anyway when I'm down there before any work starts.

 

[merlodlliw]

Fascinating stuff. Shame if they demolish the old bridge but one can see why they want to do that.

I'll get some photos this year anyway when I'm down there before any work starts.

Thanks for starting the thread, I now have a better understanding of the work,BTW it was not Taith as I thought, I forgot Gwynedd CC sits on both
Taith & Tracc,alas Councillors only make up the committees,many of whom never use the train.

Bob

 

[Rogercas]

However Cadw may accept the situation but others can appeal.

With consent having now been given to remove the old bridge, the only appeal can be made to the Welsh Government.

This will no doubt receive short shrift as this vital economic road link has been awaited since the 1960s.

One of the downsides of living in a NP is that outsiders sometimes attempt to interfere with improvements, witness the guy who objected to partial demolition of Gilbert Scott's alleged masterpiece - Trawsfynydd Power Station - which he claimed was clad in local stone. (actually precast concrete panels!) :roll:

 

[PaxVobiscum]

Diolch yn fawr

 

[merlodlliw]

With consent having now been given to remove the old bridge, the only appeal can be made to the Welsh Government.

This will no doubt receive short shrift as this vital economic road link has been awaited since the 1960s.

One of the downsides of living in a NP is that outsiders sometimes attempt to interfere with improvements, witness the guy who objected to partial demolition of Gilbert Scott's alleged masterpiece - Trawsfynydd Power Station - which he claimed was clad in local stone. (actually precast concrete panels!) :roll:

I fully agree the only appeal is via WG who fund the inspectors,it was the same down here with Bersham Pit spoil Mountain , outsiders wanted it kept as a monument,common sense however won the day.


Bob

 

[jones_bangor]

One of the downsides of living in a NP is that outsiders sometimes attempt to interfere with improvements, witness the guy who objected to partial demolition of Gilbert Scott's alleged masterpiece - Trawsfynydd Power Station - which he claimed was clad in local stone. (actually precast concrete panels!) :roll:

Leave anything in place long enough and it becomes a monument!!

 

[merlodlliw]

On BBC Wales TV news at 1.30p.m. today.
SNP voted to go ahead & allow demolishing of existing bridge, it also said it was now up to CADW to agree to demolishing of the listed structure.

Of course individuals can appeal if CADW agree to the demolish, this is unlikly,main thrust on TV was, ambulances are too heavy to use the current structure even in an emergency & the toll/queue is a put off for tourists.

Seems strange to me as an individual, why two ton ambulances are banned,yet 100 ton trains are not.


Bob

 

[PaxVobiscum]

On BBC Wales TV news at 1.30p.m. today.
SNP voted to go ahead & allow demolishing of existing bridge, it also said it was now up to CADW to agree to demolishing of the listed structure...

SNP? As in Alex 'the panda' Salmond? What's it to do with them?
Or is their another SNP (surely one is enough!)

EDIT: Doh! SNP as in Parc Cenedlaethol Eryri - Snowdonia National Park.

Ignore me.

 

[merlodlliw]

SNP? As in Alex 'the panda' Salmond? What's it to do with them?
Or is their another SNP (surely one is enough!)

EDIT: Doh! SNP as in Parc Cenedlaethol Eryri - Snowdonia National Park.

Ignore me.

An easy mistake, Bamboo shoots come to mind Have a look at the programme on I Player, BBC1 Wales 1830 news 22nd Feb, good film of the bridge.
Although you may have seen it on Satellite already.



Bob

 

[Rogercas]

Seems strange to me as an individual, why two ton ambulances are banned,yet 100 ton trains are not.


Bob

When rebuilt in 1932 to allow heavier trains there was no strengthening of the road section, and indeed at that time there was little point in doing so, given the weight of motor vehicles.

So the rail bridge can still take 2 x Class 37s and 8 coaches whilst some road vehicles are banned.

In summer, I drive the long way round through Maentwrog. It's quicker than queueing for the one way system on the bridge.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

From the BBC Wales website today ;

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-21803348

I can't remember from the original decision to demolish the Briwet Bridge (I think it was about 3-4 years ago) whether the railway line will be carried on the temporary bridge, I'm sure that someone will be able to help me out!

Penrhyndeudraeth-Harlech bridge replacement under way

Work to build a new bridge across the River Dwyryd in Gwynedd is getting underway, promising a new link between Penrhyndeudraeth and Harlech.

The £19.5m bridge will replace the current Pont Briwet wooden crossing, which was built in the 1860s.

The new bridge will carry a single train track and two lanes of traffic, unlike the one lane on the old bridge.

Gwynedd council said final plans are now being drawn up, and the crossing is expected to be completed by 2015.

"I am delighted that work is starting on this hugely important project for the Meirionnydd area of the county," said Gareth Roberts, the cabinet member for the environment.

"Whilst the old Pont Briwet has served the area well for almost 150 years, the bridge has seen better days and is no longer suitable for modern transport requirements."

The project is being run by the Welsh government and funded by £9m in European grants, along with investment from Network Rail, Gwynedd council, and the mid Wales transport consortium TraCC.

The construction company HOCHTIEF (UK) has been appointed to build the new bridge, alongside Gwynedd-based civil engineers Mulcair.

During the two-year construction, a temporary bridge will carry traffic over the river estuary.

Network Rail said: "The work at Pont Briwet bridge will make it easier to get to travel between Harlech, Penryndeudraeth and Porthmadog and we would like to thank people for their patience whilst this important work is carried out."