New Dawlish wall failing?

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HowardGWR

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If you look at the 'Blenheim' Dawlish web cam on YT, now (1720) you will see that the over-topping is as bad as it ever was! The San Remo cam is under the paywall, but I understand from members that the waves are hitting the houses. Will the new wall work I wonder?. Hign tide is at 1830 so it will get worse probably.
 
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bspahh

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Its here
High tide is 3.47m at 18.30GMT
On Sunday morning it will be 3.93m
 

swt_passenger

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If you look at the 'Blenheim' Dawlish web cam on YT, now (1720) you will see that the over-topping is as bad as it ever was! The San Remo cam is under the paywall, but I understand from members that the waves are hitting the houses. Will the new wall work I wonder?. Hign tide is at 1830 so it will get worse probably.
It really isn’t as bad as before on the Blenheim cam. It wasn’t intended to remove all spray, only to reduce it by around 90%.

But the San Remo cam view is much much worse than Blenheim at the moment, unsurprisingly until any work starts on that phase...
 
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BayPaul

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I don't think you can describe it as failing. I can't believe it was ever planned to stop overtopping of spray or even waves - just to reduce their power, and so avoid damage to the line. Looking out my window, waves are pretty much rolling over Brixham Breakwater too at the moment - this coast is very exposed to easterlies. Unless it was built 20ft higher, spray would still hit the houses.
 

swt_passenger

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I don't think you can describe it as failing. I can't believe it was ever planned to stop overtopping of spray or even waves - just to reduce their power, and so avoid damage to the line. Looking out my window, waves are pretty much rolling over Brixham Breakwater too at the moment - this coast is very exposed to easterlies. Unless it was built 20ft higher, spray would still hit the houses.
I’m not sure if it’s possible to objectively measure it just by what’s seen on the cameras anyway. I suppose the people who need to know if it’s working use some other method?

I think it’s unfair to title the thread as though it’s a fact? Ok to ask it as a question though...
 

Horizon22

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The "new" wall isn't complete though - some sections remain uncovered at the present time.
 

swt_passenger

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The "new" wall isn't complete though - some sections remain uncovered at the present time.
Yes, the vast majority (if considering the whole length from Dawlish Warren to Teignmouth) is incomplete, and not even due to start for some years. So presumably until about 2030 there’ll be fairly regular service interruptions.. They’ve only done about half of the the first budgeted phase (approx 350m), and another 400m is under way now.
 

devon_metro

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45mph gusts from the east will just blow any water that gets rebounded back onto the line anyway. You can't design against that without an absurdly tall wall. The new wall is a big improvement!
 

Horizon22

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swt_passenger

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When is the max - I assume at the Spring equinox March 21st?
Max tidal range (spring tides) come round every 28 days. IIRC the spring equinox is not usually a significant factor in tidal range, unless it happens to coincide with a spring tide as well. Spring has different meanings in these contexts...
 
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Grumpy Git

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Max tidal range (spring tides) come round every 28 days. IIRC the spring equinox is not a factor in tidal range. Spring has different meanings in these contexts...

Indeed, a "spring" tide is one where the change from high to low water is at its greatest. A "neap" tide is one where the change is at its least.
 
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RichT54

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Something to do with the moon lining up with the sun if I remember correctly.

Yes and it works whether the alignment is sun - earth - moon, or sun - moon - earth, so you get two spring tides for each orbit of the moon around the earth. Neap tides occur when the bodies are aligned at 90 degrees.
 

GWRrrr

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There's been bi-directional running on the up line around the morning and evening high tides today causing delays. A class 80X failed at Dawlish this morning disrupting things for an hour or so, does anybody know what the failure was? It failed while going down on the up line (to keep it further from the waves), but just a few minutes after an HST GTI went straight through on the down line with no apparent problems.
 

swt_passenger

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There's been bi-directional running on the up line around the morning and evening high tides today causing delays. A class 80X failed at Dawlish this morning disrupting things for an hour or so, does anybody know what the failure was? It failed while going down on the up line (to keep it further from the waves), but just a few minutes after an HST GTI went straight through on the down line with no apparent problems.
As did a 5 car Voyager on the down line at 0755. Suggests it wasn’t necessarily a water fault on the 802...
 

BayPaul

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Story going round that a yacht has hit a signal, quite impressive if true and not a wind up!
There was a bizarre court case a long time ago that said that the regulations for prevention of collisions at sea had priority over the highway code in a collision between a car and a boat on a ford. I wonder what the equivalent would be between a boat and a train!
 

swt_passenger

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Story going round that a yacht has hit a signal, quite impressive if true and not a wind up!
A dinghy mast more likely. Possibly Starcross according to comments on the webcam. Not that difficult for a gusting wind to move a few dinghy sized boats if they’re on a hard standing...
 

Spartacus

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Story going round that a yacht has hit a signal, quite impressive if true and not a wind up!

True story, yacht pushed up against the sea wall, to which the signal's attached, and the mast's bent the signal where it attaches towards the railway, with some minor damage to a light hood. Looks like the signal will have to be removed and replaced. It's between Starcross and Cockwood Harbour.
 
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swt_passenger

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True story, yacht pushed up against the sea wall, to which the signal's attached, and the mast's bent the signal where it attaches towards the railway, with some minor damage to a light hood. Looks like the signal will have to be removed and replaced. It's between Starcross and Cockwood Harbour.
Of course, and that’s quite unrelated to the current scary thread title anyway. All the normal issues with wind blown things and general rubbish that occur all over the network still happen in Devon...
 

JohnElliott

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There was a bizarre court case a long time ago that said that the regulations for prevention of collisions at sea had priority over the highway code in a collision between a car and a boat on a ford. I wonder what the equivalent would be between a boat and a train!
Are you thinking of one of A. P. Herbert's parodies (Rumpelheimer v Haddock)?

Now, the law or custom of the road is that when two vehicles meet, each shall keep to the left. But the law or custom of the sea is that when two vessels meet they shall go to starboard and pass port to port. That is, each shall keep to the right. Mr Haddock contends that when the tide covers the road that road becomes a part of the tideway, that traffic upon it is thenceforth governed by the regulations and customs of the sea, and that he did right, therefore, to steer so as to pass Mr Rumpelheimer on his port hand. Further, it is the duty of a steam vessel to keep out of the way of a rowing-boat; and Mr Haddock argues that the plaintiff's motor-car when navigating the tideway has the status of a steam-vessel, and that the plaintiff has nobody but himself to blame.
It has been cited in at least one real case:
The issue in this case has some similarity to that discussed in Rumpelheimer v. Haddock, Herbert, Uncommon Law 237 (10th ed 1964). The Thames had overflowed placing Chiswick Mall, the thoroughfare which runs along its north bank, under about a foot of water. Mr. Rumpelheimer, driving an automobile on Chiswick Mall during this time, collided with a small boat being paddled by Mr. Haddock. The issue arose as to which applied — the traffic laws or the regulations for prevention of collisions at sea.
 
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Horizon22

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Story going round that a yacht has hit a signal, quite impressive if true and not a wind up!

Definitely true, have seen an image of the signal being knocked (by the yacht mast) to about 30 degrees and slightly off its foundations! Its led to single line working, alongside the issues with sea wall.
 

Ashley Hill

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True story, yacht pushed up against the sea wall, to which the signal's attached, and the mast's bent the signal where it attaches towards the railway, with some minor damage to a light hood. Looks like the signal will have to be removed and replaced. It's between Starcross and Cockwood Harbour.
DM203A is the signal concerned. SLW over the UM between Teignmouth and Exeter in operation and cautioned 20mph past the site.
 

BayPaul

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Are you thinking of one of A. P. Herbert's parodies (Rumpelheimer v Haddock)?


It has been cited in at least one real case:
Yes, that sounds very much like the case I was taught at college. Even if it is fictitious, the law in it seems relatively sound, and so I suspect the same would apply to a train proceeding along a flooded line that was connected with the high seas and navigable by seagoing vessels! I remember a lively debate about the case in college - we ended up deciding that the car could possibly have argued that it was constrained by its draught (the colregs not specifying that a vessel needs to be deep draughted to be restricted, and the car was restricted as it was unable to go into deeper water. Possibly trains running along Dawlish should display a black cylinder to indicate this ;)
 

HowardGWR

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Thanks for reactions and anecdotes. I am of course very aware that this overtopping is mainly due to the current easterly wind, that is a seldom occurence. However it is disappointing to see how little defence the new wall (also aware that San Remo area still has the old wall) presented in that situation.
 

Bald Rick

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Thanks for reactions and anecdotes. I am of course very aware that this overtopping is mainly due to the current easterly wind, that is a seldom occurence. However it is disappointing to see how little defence the new wall (also aware that San Remo area still has the old wall) presented in that situation.

It’s not designed to be a defence against spray. It’s designed to be a defence against being undermined. It’s still there, so I’d say that’s working as designed.
 
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