New DfT has North/South divide

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by jcollins, 14 May 2015.

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  1. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    Claire Perry was previously responsible for all rail franchises awarded by DfT in her role as Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for Transport.

    However, Andrew Jones has taken over responsibility the Northern and TPE franchises as well as transport aspects of the 'Northern Powerhouse', with Claire Perry remaining responsible for the other franchises.
     
  2. Domh245

    Domh245 Established Member

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    Is that not then just setting up an official "transport for the north" - if it didn't exist already. Nothing wrong with it, it seems to have worked for TfL, and in some ways, it may be better to have (more) local control
     
  3. LNW-GW Joint

    LNW-GW Joint Established Member

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    Where did you find this?
    Operationally it's Peter Wilkinson who does all the detailed work on the new franchises (negotiating direct awards, writing ITTs etc).
     
  4. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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  5. LNW-GW Joint

    LNW-GW Joint Established Member

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  6. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    I was meaning in terms of rail. There is a limit to how many characters can be put in a thread title.
     
  7. Gareth Marston

    Gareth Marston Established Member

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    Perry Said about D stock "not on my watch" is this wiggle room to get it up North and not break election promise?

    Remember the Lib Dems and tuition fees dangerous ground.
     
  8. edwin_m

    edwin_m Veteran Member

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    Andrew Jones is MP for Harrogate and Knaresborough, which is in the North, and someone posted somewhere that he's contributed to the Northern electrification proposals.

    Claire Perry is MP for Devizes, so would no doubt be regarded as a southern cast-off...
     
  9. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    When Patrick McLoughlin formally announced the Northern ITT at Manchester Victoria station a journalist asked him if old Underground trains be used by the next Northern franchise, he responded with a firm "No." That doesn't contribute a binding contract but neither does what Perry has said.

    If Perry has dismissed them for all other DfT let franchises and we believe Perry/McLoughlin then that just leaves London Overground, Merseyrail and Arriva Trains Wales, given Scotrail has already been re-let. Merseyrail needs a 100% electric fleet and LO will soon require a 100% electric fleet.

    ATW passengers should perhaps be concerned, especially if they need something properly accessible to run Valley Lines pre-electrification.
     
  10. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    Don't know if this has been posted before, if it has I must have missed it

    http://www.thebusinessdesk.com/york...rough-with-yorkshire-base-for-rail-north.html
     
  11. LNW-GW Joint

    LNW-GW Joint Established Member

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  12. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    Well not that long ago the reverse argument was being made given Northern decided to send the FNW 158s east and the ATN 150s (with original BR interiors and notices) west. Then when Merseytravel secured some released 158s, Northern decided they would better suited in Yorkshire and sent some 156s west to compensate.
     
  13. alexl92

    alexl92 Established Member

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    Is this Andrew Jones the Harrogate MP?
     
  14. edwin_m

    edwin_m Veteran Member

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    Andrew Jones is the minister responsible but the decision to base the unit in Leeds came before the election so nobody would have known who the new minister would be.

    Even though it seems a little tokenist, I think it's the right thing to do to base the unit in the North as there hasn't been much evidence that the London-based team has understood the issues. Not a civil servant, but a former colleague of mine used to working on rail feasibiliity studies around London was assigned to a study in Sheffield and was absolutely horrified when he travelled on a Pacer!
     
  15. muddythefish

    muddythefish Established Member

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    One reason why moving govt departments out of London would be a very good thing. Here in Clothcap city we have running water but still no electricity. Do you think Sir Humphrey and his wife would like that ?
     
  16. Class 170101

    Class 170101 Established Member

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    Good luck for that happening - some MPs are point blank refusing to leave Parliament even though it would save taxpayers money during its refurbishment.
     
  17. muddythefish

    muddythefish Established Member

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    Where's Guy Fawkes when you need him ?
     
  18. Paul Sidorczuk

    Paul Sidorczuk Veteran Member

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    Perhaps such a "Northern" area has to have a total makeover as occurred at Media City UK to mollify those at the BBC who took job transference, with the Manchester Metrolink system in the totally and utterly upgraded Salford Quays area giving the impression of the Docklands Light Railway to those who decided to tread the pathway to "The Northern Provinces" (or any other patronised Southern name for anything north of "The Home Counties")...<(
     
  19. RichmondCommu

    RichmondCommu Established Member

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    The problem is its very difficult to get people to travel up North for the day from London let alone move up there permanently. Its often said that the construction of HS2 will encourage people to move away from the South East to the North West and Yorkshire but the attitude of many people living down here suggests that it won't happen.
     
  20. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    I don't see that either. There would be upsides and downsides to moving out of London but I think the biggest constraint would be to get people to accept lower non-London salaries how ever much you argue about it being significantly cheaper to live and work in Sheffield or Liverpool. Look at what happened when the BBC moved some departures to Salford, some people didn't move despite being offered a generous relocation package to continue working for a well known organisation at brand new state of the art facilities.
     
  21. WatcherZero

    WatcherZero Established Member

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    Never mind out of London, some of the MPs are refusing to even leave central London.
     
  22. adrock1976

    adrock1976 Established Member

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    Thinking about it, he did have honest intentions when entering parliament. :)
     
  23. RichmondCommu

    RichmondCommu Established Member

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    Well exactly! Too many fancy tea rooms and bars for them to give up!
     
  24. Paul Sidorczuk

    Paul Sidorczuk Veteran Member

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    Perhaps a Parliamentary branch of Betty's Café Tea Rooms, as seen at Harrogate, Ilkley and York, may help in that respect....:D
     
  25. AndyNLondon

    AndyNLondon Member

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    It's not necessarily only about money or snobby Londoners who can't bear the thought of living anywhere else. People have family & social ties to where they live - there are very real concerns like "my partner would have to find a new job", "we'd be taking the kids away from their friends and they'd have to settle in to a new school", "we like being close to granny & grandpa", "I want to go to all of [insert football club]'s home games" etc., that apply whatever long distance move you're asking someone to make, be it Londoners being asked to move to Liverpool, or Mancunians to Maidenhead, or Bristolians to Blackpool, or... (pairings of places arbitrarily assigned for alliterative affect!)
     
  26. telstarbox

    telstarbox Established Member

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    If house prices in London continue to accelerate away from the rest of the country then minds may be refocused.
     
  27. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    It's not just people from London though. Some people moved south to London and have no intention of ever going back North because they like London so much - Jeremy Clarkson and Victoria Derbyshire are such examples.

    It doesn't seem uncommon for people to move to London for career progression. However, despite 8.1 million people being from Greater London there don't seem to be a significant number of people who move in the opposite direction. Some do move north for University and then don't go back down to London again once they've finished but that seems to be the main flow away from London.
     
  28. misterredmist

    misterredmist Member

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    I suspect any other Govt Dept would be told to move and get out of the way while any refurbs were done , however, who can tell the Parliamentarians what to do ?

    It's a no brainer they should be out of the way and let the builders do their stuff , but what do we expect ? : Politicians are selfish and hypocritical.....
     
  29. AndyNLondon

    AndyNLondon Member

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    It's certainly true that the flow of people is unbalanced - more coming into London than leaving - and that this is largely due to the way that that UK's economy is so ridiculously London-centric. I suspect that the lack of flow out of London (other than leaving for university & not coming back) is in part that at the same time as doing some career progression, people are also doing some family-making and root-planting, and so you get some "well, i don't need to be in London for work any more, but I'm settled here now" effects.

    I've no objection to trying to fix this London-centricness by having large employers move elsewhere in the country, but it does annoy me when people speak as if there's no good reason for anyone to object to being expected to move across the country for their work.

    (FWIW, I grew up in London, left for university, and came back for work. I'm not sure I would have the last bit of that if I hadn't had the options of a cheap place to live courtesy of my parents, though. There are many things I love about living here, as well as the things that make it feel like an overcrowded, overpriced, & overly-smelly hell-hole.)
     
  30. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    TBH I don't think there *is* an issue with people having to move for work. If there's no work in your field, move to where there is, or look for a career change. Many people do both - I did (moved).

    I do think work needs spreading out a bit more from London, but that will never be completely solved.
     
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