New Eltham to Oxford During Strike

[phoenix1589]

Hi all,

I've got an Anytime Day Single from New Eltham (07:08 departure) to Oxford (09:19 arrival) on Wednesday 8th May (and an off-peak day single, for the return journey, on Thursday 9th May). The 8th is now a GWR strike day, I don't know what the likely service is from Paddington to Oxford on that morning, however work have offered a hotel the night before if I want to travel up on the 7th.

I'm aware I can use my ticket the day earlier without needing to change the ticket regardless of what service GWR do actually run, however the New Eltham to London leg is with Southeastern - who are striking on the Tuesday.

As I've not got any real time restrictions on the Tuesday, it would be fairly simple to get the bus up to Woolwich and then the Elizabeth line from Woolwich to Paddington. Can anyone comment on if this would be valid journey with the NEH - OXF anytime day single or what I'd need to do / ask to be able to travel from Woolwich?

For the sake of £1.75, I'm not bothered about specifically getting a refund of the bus fare however if there were no trains running from New Eltham, I presume I could claim delay repay from Southeastern?

If I do end up travelling on the Tuesday afternoon, would I be able to request the difference between the Anytime fare I paid (£46.50) and the off-peak fare (£36.80) from GWR (who I bought the ticket from) or could this only be done if I refund the original ticket and buy a new one (which then wouldn't allow me to claim delay repay if there are no trains, as I'd have purchased it after the strike announcement)?

 

[W-on-Sea]

Could you maybe get a bus to Lewisham instead of Woolwich, then take the DLR and change to the Elizabeth line at Canary Wharf (however inconvenient that particular interchange is) or Stratford?

On past strike days, GWR have run rather more than a skeleton service betwen London and Oxford for much of the day, but no timetables have yet been published for this one.

 

[phoenix1589]

Could you maybe get a bus to Lewisham instead of Woolwich, then take the DLR and change to the Elizabeth line at Canary Wharf (however inconvenient that particular interchange is) or Stratford?

Bus to Lewisham and DLR would be a little longer, but doable (Stratford would be significantly longer).

Would that route be "more valid" than getting the bus to Woolwich?

On past strike days, GWR have run rather more than a skeleton service betwen London and Oxford for much of the day, but no timetables have yet been published for this one.

That's useful to know, thanks.

 

[andythebrave]

New Eltham to Oxford via Woolwich is on a permitted route and, obviously, starting short on an Anytime single is fine so you're good to go.

 

[phoenix1589]

New Eltham to Oxford via Woolwich is on a permitted route and, obviously, starting short on an Anytime single is fine so you're good to go.

Thanks.

Is there something specific which makes via Woolwich a permitted route across London?

It doesn't 'feel' like a natural route (especially with the train having to go away from central London, via Dartford or Lewisham) and it doesn't seem to be valid if I was only going to London Bridge.

 

[andythebrave]

Thanks.

Is there something specific which makes via Woolwich a permitted route across London?

It doesn't 'feel' like a natural route (especially with the train having to go away from central London, via Dartford or Lewisham) and it doesn't seem to be valid if I was only going to London Bridge.

I used the forum's site to request a journey from New Eltham to Oxford without splits specifying a via point of Woolwich Elizabeth line and it offered the Anytime single straight away.
Changes at Lewisham, Canary Wharf, Woolwich and Paddington.

 

[redreni]

If via Woolwich is valid then maybe bus to Woolwich is your option, but I would be prepared for some friction at the gateline as they may be confused by what you're doing (and they're on the EL core section so concepts like break of journey or starting short, or even permitted routes, may be foreign to them) and I doubt they're especially used to people trying to start or resume a cross-London transfer through that gateline (Abbey Wood being the more natural option for those coming from the East and London Bridge or another London terminal the more obvious option for those starting their journey to the south or west of Woolwich Arsenal).

If going via the DLR, it's usually faster to change at West India Quay rather than Canary Wharf DLR for Canary Wharf EL, even if it means an extra change. Again, who knows what the people on the EL gateline will make of it, but if you can show them an itinerary showing that route (which you should be able to get) then I'm sure they would relent.

 

[Class800]

If via Woolwich is valid then maybe bus to Woolwich is your option, but I would be prepared for some friction at the gateline as they may be confused by what you're doing (and they're on the EL core section so concepts like break of journey or starting short, or even permitted routes, may be foreign to them) and I doubt they're especially used to people trying to start or resume a cross-London transfer through that gateline (Abbey Wood being the more natural option for those coming from the East and London Bridge or another London terminal the more obvious option for those starting their journey to the south or west of Woolwich Arsenal).

If going via the DLR, it's usually faster to change at West India Quay rather than Canary Wharf DLR for Canary Wharf EL, even if it means an extra change. Again, who knows what the people on the EL gateline will make of it, but if you can show them an itinerary showing that route (which you should be able to get) then I'm sure they would relent.

I've never had a problem with staff at Woolwich Elizabeth line. Though my routes are usually more straightforward e.g. Plumstead origin tickets. If it's got a Maltese cross on it, I'd be confident they'll accept it (manually). Because they aren't too well versed in permitted routes, they'll likely accept pretty much anything with Maltese cross. That's my experience

 

[4COR]

On past strike days, GWR have run rather more than a skeleton service betwen London and Oxford for much of the day, but no timetables have yet been published for this one.

And you also have Marylebone to Oxford to check as an alternative as well using the Chiltern service in case that doesn't work out.

 

[CyrusWuff]

And you also have Marylebone to Oxford to check as an alternative as well using the Chiltern service in case that doesn't work out.

GWR and Chiltern are affected on the same day this time round, so that won't be an option as Chiltern will have no service.

 

[phoenix1589]

If via Woolwich is valid then maybe bus to Woolwich is your option, but I would be prepared for some friction at the gateline as they may be confused by what you're doing (and they're on the EL core section so concepts like break of journey or starting short, or even permitted routes, may be foreign to them) and I doubt they're especially used to people trying to start or resume a cross-London transfer through that gateline (Abbey Wood being the more natural option for those coming from the East and London Bridge or another London terminal the more obvious option for those starting their journey to the south or west of Woolwich Arsenal).

I've never had a problem with staff at Woolwich Elizabeth line. Though my routes are usually more straightforward e.g. Plumstead origin tickets. If it's got a Maltese cross on it, I'd be confident they'll accept it (manually).

Thanks,

I would hope that, on a day with rail strikes and a ticket with a Maltese Cross, they wouldn't raise to many queries.

Also, the transfer from Woolwich Arsenal to the EL is at street level - so they wouldn't know if I've come from the train station or bus stop.

The updated information suggests there will be no GWR services out of Paddington on the Wednesday. So it looks like i will need to travel on the Tuesday. They also say:

To help customers, tickets for strike days will be valid for travel on alternative days on GWR services

Southeastern, who are affected by strikes on the Tuesday, but suggest they will be running services on my metro line into London Bridge / Charing cross, have on their info page:

Customers with Advance, Anytime or Off-Peak tickets for travel between Tuesday 7 and Thursday 9 May can instead use their tickets anytime between Monday 6 and Monday 13 May. This only applies to tickets purchased before the strikes were announced on 22 April. If the ticket is for a journey that includes TfL services such as the London Underground, DLR or the Elizabeth Line, it will not be valid on TfL services on an alternative date.

(My bolding).

I've not heard that using the ticket on previous day, due to strike, would exclude the cross-london transfer. Even if I don't need to get up to Woolwich to take the Elizabeth line all the way to Paddington, I'd still need to get from London Bridge or Charing Cross to Paddington on the tube.

 

[redreni]

This ridiculous situation with cross-London transfers has cropped up before.

It's really rather unfortunate as passengers really ought to be incentivised, if they can, to change their travel plans to avoid strike days - there will be plenty of passengers who can't which may well result in overcrowding. This failure to offer any flexibility on the cross-London portion actively disincentivises what should be incentivised.

I'm not sure if anything can be done about it? Maybe ask the retailer for a partial refund to reflect the value of the part of the service you paid for that wasn't delivered? Their only defence that I can think of against such a claim would be that you could have travelled on the date on the ticket - I understand a limited service to Oxford is expected to run?

The only other thing somebody could do (I'm not advocating this) is pretend not to know about the exclusion of TfL from the offer of flexibility on travel dates during the strike action and seek to be let through any TfL gatelines you may need to pass through. If they let you in then they'll pretty much have to let you out at the other end of your journey. There might be a revenue check en route where you'd need to maintain you believed your ticket was valid because of the strike action and that this belief was reinforced by TfL staff letting you through the gateline. Revenue checks on the tube are very rare, though. If they refuse to let you in then you'd just have to tap in and out on a payment card, I guess.

I definitely wouldn't advise travelling on the DLR on a date other than the date on the ticket, though. While they may show lenience towards a passenger who said they thought they had flexibility to travel the day before due to the strike, they may not, and if they don't it'll likely be a penalty fare rather than just a "no, I'm not letting you through, you'll have to tap in".

 

[mangyiscute]

I think that on every strike day, it has been possible to get from Paddington to Oxford, although often quite slow with a change at Reading required.
The other option is refund the ticket and go via the Oxford tube from Victoria, although from previous experiences these can get very busy on train strike days.

 

[Watershed]

From a legal perspective, I am highly doubtful that's TfL's policy of refusing to accept cross-London transfer tickets on other days holds up to any level of scrutiny. I would suggest that anyone who's forced to pay extra for their cross-London transfer could consider recovering this from TfL. Of course, the small amounts at stake mean it's unlikely to be worthwhile most people's time unless TfL relent at the first instance, which appears unlikely.

 

[phoenix1589]

I think that on every strike day, it has been possible to get from Paddington to Oxford, although often quite slow with a change at Reading required.
The other option is refund the ticket and go via the Oxford tube from Victoria, although from previous experiences these can get very busy on train strike days.

I've just spotted that the GWR strike page also says:

Due to engineering work, there will be no GWR trains between London Paddington and Reading

I've no issue traveling on the Tuesday - work has offered a hotel for the night, so I won't be out of pocket for the ~£100.

I just don't was hassle of TfL gateline (entry is likely fine - if they don't let me through I'll use contactless for the £2.80)

 

[redreni]

I've just spotted that the GWR strike page also says:


I've no issue traveling on the Tuesday - work has offered a hotel for the night, so I won't be out of pocket for the ~£100.

I just don't was hassle of TfL gateline (entry is likely fine - if they don't let me through I'll use contactless for the £2.80)

Actually, looking again at your first post, you should be able to get a fee-free refund on the outbound ticket purchased and then buy another one for your new intended date of travel.

Not sure if this might be a hassle if, for example, you bought it through work, but that's what I'd recommend doing if at all possible as it solves the TfL problem.

 

[phoenix1589]

Actually, looking again at your first post, you should be able to get a fee-free refund on the outbound ticket purchased and then buy another one for your new intended date of travel.

Not sure if this might be a hassle if, for example, you bought it through work, but that's what I'd recommend doing if at all possible as it solves the TfL problem.

Ticket was bought (by me) through gwr.com.

I bought the ticket before the strikes were announced. If I rebook, any strike related issues with southeastern on the Tuesday would be met with 'you bought your ticket knowing there were strikes'

 

[redreni]

Ticket was bought (by me) through gwr.com.

I bought the ticket before the strikes were announced. If I rebook, any strike related issues with southeastern on the Tuesday would be met with 'you bought your ticket knowing there were strikes'

Yeah but it sounds like the tickets you have no longer really fit your requirements. You said you don't really have time restrictions on the Tuesday, so you've bought peak validity that you no longer need.

You could cancel the entire booking (the off-peak single for the return leg too) and then buy an off-peak return (out on Tuesday, back within 1 month).

And if you buy that new ticket from London Underground and DLR Zones 1-4 to Oxford that'd be £5 cheaper than the New Eltham to Oxford equivalent, which would cover your bus fare to/from a DLR, LU or Elizabeth Line core station of your choice (perhaps Woolwich).

This would have the added bonus (and I say this as somebody who commuted 5 days a week on Southeastern for 9 years) of avoiding Southeastern entirely, meaning they wouldn't be able to disrupt your journey or say "you knew there were strikes" or, indeed, anything else to you!

 

[phoenix1589]

so you've bought peak validity that you no longer need

Good point!

And if you buy that new ticket from London Underground and DLR Zones 1-4 to Oxford

I can't find "London Underground and DLR Zones 1-4" as an origin at gwr.com

I can't find it on brfares either ...

 

[CyrusWuff]

Good point!


I can't find "London Underground and DLR Zones 1-4" as an origin at gwr.com

I can't find it on brfares either ...

BRFares has it down as the older name of Zone U1234, and it's showing on GWR for me.

In both cases, the quickest option is to use the national location code of 0792 instead. That doesn't work on GWR's Android app, however, and you need to type it out in full.

 

[phoenix1589]

BRFares has it down as the older name of Zone U1234, and it's showing on GWR for me.

In both cases, the quickest option is to use the national location code of 0792 instead. That doesn't work on GWR's Android app, however, and you need to type it out in full.

Found it, thanks.

The details for the u1234 state "Valid for one return Underground/DLR journey in London Zones 1–4", so clearly not valid on a national rail journey within zone (fine).

However,

which would cover your bus fare to/from a DLR, LU or Elizabeth Line core station of your choice (perhaps Woolwich).

It's not obvious that this would also include the bus?

 

[redreni]

Found it, thanks.

The details for the u1234 state "Valid for one return Underground/DLR journey in London Zones 1–4", so clearly not valid on a national rail journey within zone (fine).

However,

It's not obvious that this would also include the bus?

No, it doesn't cover the bus.

I just meant that as the ticket is £5 cheaper than the equivalent ticket from New Eltham to Oxford, the £5 saving more than covers your bus fares, which you'll need to pay separately.