New Jersey: Train crashes into station

[edwin_m]

Is the problem partly that New York state has the big wealth generator generating taxes that can pay for LIRR and Metro North as well as the Subway, but New Jersey has to support a commuter network of similar size without the same sort of tax base?

 

[philabos]

I do have a question.
Once an inbound train passes the last signal before the buffer stop, say at Kings Cross,
is there an automated system that will halt an over speed train?

 

[ac6000cw]

I do have a question.
Once an inbound train passes the last signal before the buffer stop, say at Kings Cross,
is there an automated system that will halt an over speed train?

Yes and no - TPWS enforces a speed restriction part way along the platform (to 10 mph in the case of the platform at Kings Cross where the buffer stop collision occurred last year), but there is nothing beyond that point so a train could hit the buffer stop at 10 mph (or more if it accelerated after the last set of TPWS timing loops).

To quote from the RAIB accident report:

"Platform 11 is 170 metres long, and will accommodate an eight-car train. The maximum permitted speed for trains entering and leaving King’s Cross station is 15 mph (24 km/h). Platform 11 is fitted with TPWS equipment which is designed to apply an arriving train’s brakes if it is travelling at more than 10 mph (16 km/h) at a point 55 metres from the buffer stops."

 

[WatcherZero]

Is the problem partly that New York state has the big wealth generator generating taxes that can pay for LIRR and Metro North as well as the Subway, but New Jersey has to support a commuter network of similar size without the same sort of tax base?

The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey is jointly owned and made a $779m profit last year on revenues of $4.4bn.

 

[edwin_m]

The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey is jointly owned and made a $779m profit last year on revenues of $4.4bn.

This operates the PATH trains that are basically cross-Hudson but some routes penetrate into NJ, as well as airports, road crossings and harbour facilities. However I don't believe it has any involvement in NJ Transit, which provides the majority of commuter rail in the state and was the operator involved in this accident. Does this make it easier for politicians to divert their share of Port Authority profits to other purposes while ignoring the needs of NJ Transit?

 

[philabos]

Yes and no - TPWS enforces a speed restriction part way along the platform (to 10 mph in the case of the platform at Kings Cross where the buffer stop collision occurred last year), but there is nothing beyond that point so a train could hit the buffer stop at 10 mph (or more if it accelerated after the last set of TPWS timing loops).

To quote from the RAIB accident report:

"Platform 11 is 170 metres long, and will accommodate an eight-car train. The maximum permitted speed for trains entering and leaving King’s Cross station is 15 mph (24 km/h). Platform 11 is fitted with TPWS equipment which is designed to apply an arriving train’s brakes if it is travelling at more than 10 mph (16 km/h) at a point 55 metres from the buffer stops."

Thank you for the response, very interesting.
My understanding is that our PTC was never designed to work on restricted terminal trackage, but I am certainly no expert. I do often wonder why we did not just buy TPWS years ago. Our PTC is far from off the shelf, and some say it is being invented as we trial and error our way along to implementation.

 

[edwin_m]

Thank you for the response, very interesting.
My understanding is that our PTC was never designed to work on restricted terminal trackage, but I am certainly no expert. I do often wonder why we did not just buy TPWS years ago. Our PTC is far from off the shelf, and some say it is being invented as we trial and error our way along to implementation.

Reading Wikipedia it seems there isn't even one PTC system, rather a series of different ones used in different parts of the country.

 

[Groningen]

According a dutch newspaper the train entered the station double the allowed speed. Not 10 miles/16 kilometers, but 21/34. The driver/engineer pulled the emergency break 1 second before it slammed into the buffers.

 

[philabos]

According a dutch newspaper the train entered the station double the allowed speed. Not 10 miles/16 kilometers, but 21/34. The driver/engineer pulled the emergency break 1 second before it slammed into the buffers.

Throttle at idle and speed 8mph one minute before crash. Then increased to 21mph, and as you say went into emergency 1 second before hitting the buffer.
Question remains what happened in those 59 seconds.
NJT has now announced they will require the conductor to be in the cab with the engineer when entering a terminal station. Knee jerk responses always best.

 

[WatcherZero]

Investigators have published their initial investigation report. It basically restates all the media leaks over the last couple of weeks. They have also tested the brakes and found them to be mechanically sound and still working though they are unable to test the electrical controls because they were destroyed in the collision. They've also added that the train was short formed as 4 carriages rather than 5 and it was heavily loaded with the conductor saying he was unable to make his way through to conduct ticket checks.

 

[PaxVobiscum]

NJT has now announced they will require the conductor to be in the cab with the engineer when entering a terminal station.

They've also added that the train ... was heavily loaded with the conductor saying he was unable to make his way through to conduct ticket checks.

Aye right.

 

[philabos]

The press is now reporting the crash may have been caused by sleep apnea, the same cause as the Spuytin Duyvil crash in 2013. The official finding will not be released until late 2017.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/nj-train-crash-possibly-caused-175813590.html