New Metrolink routes after second city crossing.

[thenorthern]

Just seen this from TfGM

Green light for early 2017 Metrolink changes

​Metrolink services are on track for change when the new Second City Crossing (2CC) opens early next year, under plans approved by transport leaders today.

Metrolink passengers will benefit from more trams running right into the heart of Manchester city centre when the new line opens, a meeting of the Transport for Greater Manchester (TfGM) Committee heard.

The new 2CC route will also give Metrolink greater operational flexibility and improve service reliability.

The new line will allow for the long-anticipated extension of Manchester Airport services beyond Cornbrook to Deansgate-Castlefield initially and, then, Victoria.

Rochdale and Oldham services to and from East Didsbury will run along the new line through the city, serving Victoria, Exchange Square and St Peter’s Square.

Services will also run seven days a week between Altrincham and Piccadilly, Bury and Piccadilly, East Didsbury and Rochdale Town Centre, and Eccles and Ashton-under-Lyne. Additional services will run 7am-7pm, Monday to Saturday, linking Altrincham and Bury, East Didsbury and Shaw & Crompton, and MediaCityUK and Etihad Campus.

http://www.tfgm.com/Corporate/media_centre/Pages/News.aspx?articleId=1111

Looks ok but I would prefer the MediaCityUK trams to start at Piccadilly so they aren't full up when I get on them.

 

[CC 72100]

Is that last line pretty much what happens already? Certainly sounds like status quo for the Eccles/MediaCityUK line?

 

[thenorthern]

Is that last line pretty much what happens already? Certainly sounds like status quo for the Eccles/MediaCityUK line?

MediaCityUK to Piccadilly is going to be extended to Etihad Campus.

 

[CC 72100]

Ah of course - friday afternoon not quite thinking?!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Any use of the 2CC line will miss out the Shudehill bus/tram interchange, as the Exchange Square stop is some distance away from it.

 

[Altfish]

Any use of the 2CC line will miss out the Shudehill bus/tram interchange, as the Exchange Square stop is some distance away from it.

I don't think that it is a great hardship, Paul. All you do is alight at either Victoria, St Peter's Square or Piccadilly Gardens and catch the first Shudehill tram from there. In most cases it'll be from the same platform, at worse you'll have to cross to the other side of the same platform.

 

[Chester1]

MediaCityUK to Piccadilly is going to be extended to Etihad Campus.

Bury-Etihad Campus is being cut back to Piccadilly. I suspect this is due to lack of capacity due to Bury line electrics being limited to one double and one single service until its upgraded in time for Crumpsall to Trafford Centre services. I think Media City to Piccadilly is double trams, which would mean extra capacity to cater for developments completing soon near New Islington.

 

[thenorthern]

Bury-Etihad Campus is being cut back to Piccadilly. I suspect this is due to lack of capacity due to Bury line electrics being limited to one double and one single service until its upgraded in time for Crumpsall to Trafford Centre services. I think Media City to Piccadilly is double trams, which would mean extra capacity to cater for developments completing soon near New Islington.

Lets hope they are double, problem I find when the trams operate Ashton-Eccles via MediaCityUK is that most the people who get on before Piccadilly want to to to Piccadilly Gardens where as most the people getting on at Piccadilly want to go further than Piccadilly Gardens meaning from Piccadilly to Piccadilly Gardens the trams are packed.

 

[familyguy99]

Bury-Etihad Campus is being cut back to Piccadilly. I suspect this is due to lack of capacity due to Bury line electrics being limited to one double and one single service until its upgraded in time for Crumpsall to Trafford Centre services. I think Media City to Piccadilly is double trams, which would mean extra capacity to cater for developments completing soon near New Islington.

Lets hope they are double, problem I find when the trams operate Ashton-Eccles via MediaCityUK is that most the people who get on before Piccadilly want to to to Piccadilly Gardens where as most the people getting on at Piccadilly want to go further than Piccadilly Gardens meaning from Piccadilly to Piccadilly Gardens the trams are packed.

Believe only Bury and Altrincham line will be getting double trams and rest of system will have single trams from early next year.

By end of 2017 Ashton and Airport line will turn into 6 mins service (instead of 12) mean more trams will be running on these lines and Airport along with Bury to Altrincham and Didsbury to Shaw will use 2CC and Rochdale to East Didsbury along with Bury to Piccadilly will use 1CC line.

https://www.greatermanchester-ca.go...17/transport_for_greater_manchester_committee

^^ Item 7 is where you found about latest changes to tram system from new year.

 

[CC 72100]

Lets hope they are double, problem I find when the trams operate Ashton-Eccles via MediaCityUK is that most the people who get on before Piccadilly want to to to Piccadilly Gardens where as most the people getting on at Piccadilly want to go further than Piccadilly Gardens meaning from Piccadilly to Piccadilly Gardens the trams are packed.

Nope, Eccles line (using it as whole here) is always single trams, whether they be Eccles, MediaCityUK or Eccles via MediaCityUK services.

Have only seen double trams once - on certain MediaCityUK - Piccadilly services on Olympic Parade day.

In all honesty, being a commuter into the city on that line, I don't feel that double trams are needed. That said, if on the common bit after MediaCityUK, a proper 6 minute frequency was maintained that would be appreciated. Too often I see 'Ashton - 2 minutes / Piccadilly - 5 minutes / Ashton - 14 minutes' or something like that.. in short lots of bunching and then ~10 minute gaps!

 

[ValleyLines142]

Any use of the 2CC line will miss out the Shudehill bus/tram interchange, as the Exchange Square stop is some distance away from it.

They are literally five minutes apart?

 

[317 forever]

It is a pity that Airport services are not proceeding to Victoria initially, especially as tram 3120 is already in stock.

I have heard that driver training is to start pretty much first thing in the new year.

 

[Kite159]

I guess the Victoria terminators will use the middle track at Victoria?

 

[snowball]

I guess the Victoria terminators will use the middle track at Victoria?

Yes, though I think the signalling requires alteration before the middle track can be used in addition to the other tracks. (The middle track was in use at an earler stage of the Victoria rebuild, but the other tracks were not both in use at the time).

 

[Kite159]

I was surprised at the lack of double trams out today, especially with warnings of "many events in the city centre today" from station PA systems. Some of the trams from Bury were standing room only from Whitefield.

 

[Chester1]

It is a pity that Airport services are not proceeding to Victoria initially, especially as tram 3120 is already in stock.

I have heard that driver training is to start pretty much first thing in the new year.

It is a shame but terminating at Cornbrook is a much better solution than waiting for the 2CC before completing the Airport line. I do wonder why Didsbury services were increased to 12 per hour with all going through the city centre, instead of half terminating at Cornbrook to allow Airport services to go through Victoria to Rochdale.

I was surprised at the lack of double trams out today, especially with warnings of "many events in the city centre today" from station PA systems. Some of the trams from Bury were standing room only from Whitefield.

There are capacity constraints caused by infrastructure. Bury line power supply can only support one double and one single service. When there are matches and events at the Etihad the Altrincham services are switched to single trams to enable Bury to Etihad services to be doubled. 120 trams is very short of the number of trams needed to run most services as double trams.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

There are capacity constraints caused by infrastructure. Bury line power supply can only support one double and one single service. When there are matches and events at the Etihad the Altrincham services are switched to single trams to enable Bury to Etihad services to be doubled. 120 trams is very short of the number of trams needed to run most services as double trams.

Is it not the case that the stated figure of 120 trams actually includes those which were purchased in advance, ready to be used on the new Trafford Park line when operational?

 

[Chester1]

Is it not the case that the stated figure of 120 trams actually includes those which were purchased in advance, ready to be used on the new Trafford Park line when operational?

Yes but the Trafford Park line will have only have one service using single trams running to Crumpsall. From Crumpsall to Bury would require using trams with compatible with both signalling systems rather than just the newest system, and there isn't enough demand anyway. Assuming a 36 minute journey and turn around time it will require 6 trams + a couple of spares. They will help prior to 2020 but only by a little.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Yes but the Trafford Park line will have only have one service using single trams running to Crumpsall. From Crumpsall to Bury would require using trams with compatible with both signalling systems rather than just the newest system, and there isn't enough demand anyway. Assuming a 36 minute journey and turn around time it will require 6 trams + a couple of spares. They will help prior to 2020 but only by a little.

Only a single tram service on the new Trafford Park line? I thought that it was going to be one of their projections that envisaged very heavy passenger carrying, especially to and from the Trafford Centre, when fully operational.

 

[WatcherZero]

Only ever been envisaged as a single 12 min frequency. More could be added if it took off after a few years.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Only ever been envisaged as a single 12 min frequency. More could be added if it took off after a few years.

Why, in that case, did the preliminary information that was issued when this project was first mooted, speak highly of the passenger movement numbers that would be coming and going to and from the Trafford Centre, especially as there are fast buses to and from Manchester.

Perhaps an inner realisation of exactly what the crammed car parks at the Trafford Centre can offer to car users who make amounts of purchases that they can then put in the car boot and then drive straight to their homes, without the worry or not of there will be seats on a tram available and room for all purchased items.

 

[Chester1]

Why, in that case, did the preliminary information that was issued when this project was first mooted, speak highly of the passenger movement numbers that would be coming and going to and from the Trafford Centre, especially as there are fast buses to and from Manchester.

Perhaps an inner realisation of exactly what the crammed car parks at the Trafford Centre can offer to car users who make amounts of purchases that they can then put in the car boot and then drive straight to their homes, without the worry or not of there will be seats on a tram available and room for all purchased items.

Supporting a 1 single service is still a great deal of traffic and combined with significant contributions from businesses at Trafford Park it will pay back its investment by TfGM in 15-20 years.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Noting that all good things appear to come to an end, how much (if any) EC finance of any type was forthcoming for the Trafford Park line?

 

[317 forever]

It is a shame but terminating at Cornbrook is a much better solution than waiting for the 2CC before completing the Airport line. I do wonder why Didsbury services were increased to 12 per hour with all going through the city centre, instead of half terminating at Cornbrook to allow Airport services to go through Victoria to Rochdale.



There are capacity constraints caused by infrastructure. Bury line power supply can only support one double and one single service. When there are matches and events at the Etihad the Altrincham services are switched to single trams to enable Bury to Etihad services to be doubled. 120 trams is very short of the number of trams needed to run most services as double trams.

Indeed, I already understood why the Airport service initially just ran to or from Cornbrook. I just thought it could be extended to Victoria or even Shaw as soon as 2CC opened.

 

[nerd]

Only ever been envisaged as a single 12 min frequency. More could be added if it took off after a few years.

..or if it were extended over the Ship Canal to Port Salford.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Yes but the Trafford Park line will have only have one service using single trams running to Crumpsall. From Crumpsall to Bury would require using trams with compatible with both signalling systems rather than just the newest system, and there isn't enough demand anyway. Assuming a 36 minute journey and turn around time it will require 6 trams + a couple of spares. They will help prior to 2020 but only by a little.

Indeed Chester; but they should still allow the Altrincham to Piccadilly Service to be upgraded to run with doubles.

Once the Airport Line is extended to run through the city centre, this should greatly reduce current capacity pressures on inner stops along the East Didsbury line. Equally, once the Trafford Park line is open this will reduce capacity pressures on the inner stops of the Bury line. So the Altrincham line is likely to be the one with the trickiest capacity problems; which could be ameliorated in the medium term by using the Trafford Park line stock to double these services; but longer term,TfGM appear to envisage purchasing a further eight 'next-generation' units.

 

[tbtc]

Why, in that case, did the preliminary information that was issued when this project was first mooted, speak highly of the passenger movement numbers that would be coming and going to and from the Trafford Centre, especially as there are fast buses to and from Manchester.

Perhaps an inner realisation of exactly what the crammed car parks at the Trafford Centre can offer to car users who make amounts of purchases that they can then put in the car boot and then drive straight to their homes, without the worry or not of there will be seats on a tram available and room for all purchased items.

Maybe you know more than the people in charge.

Or maybe they've looked at how busy trams between Meadowhall and Sheffield City Centre are (generally eight trams per hour over the last few years - temporary timetable due to the Shalesmoor crash earlier this year notwithstanding) - despite the high frequency of buses and (heavy rail) trains on parallel corridors...

...maybe they've looked at the passenger demographics/ spending and realise that for every person buying big bulky carloads of expensive goods there are a number of people at the Metro Centre/ Meadowhall/ Trafford Centre etc who are there for Primark/ McDonalds/ cinema etc and aren't going to require a spare seat on the tram for all of their purchases?

Given the millions of people who use these Out Of Town shopping centres, there are lots of different types of shoppers (and a number of people who aren't even going there to buy physical products that they'll be taking home with them) - horses for courses - there's a market for 4x4s, for taxis, for light rail, for buses... not everyone is like you.

 

[Bletchleyite]

With so many different routes, is it not time for Metrolink to consider route numbers/letters to make them clearer?

 

[Chester1]

With so many different routes, is it not time for Metrolink to consider route numbers/letters to make them clearer?

I suspect that will happen at some point but it didn't make sense when there was only 3 lines and there have been many closures and service alterations due to expansion therefore the current system will work best until the network has stopped growing.

 

[snowball]

With so many different routes, is it not time for Metrolink to consider route numbers/letters to make them clearer?

Over on Skyscrapercity there have been discussions about this for years! It has its own thread there.

 

[nerd]

With so many different routes, is it not time for Metrolink to consider route numbers/letters to make them clearer?

The services are indicated with letters on the system maps; but these have been changing every few months for nearly ten years now; and several further rounds of changes are to be expected yet awhile.