New national restrictions in Wales

[Chester1]

If we get to a situation where Wales, NI and Scotland do it then I bet BJ will cave in and do it, probably announcing at something like 8pm on Christmas Eve.

The four nation approach to all this has been disastrous, and must never be allowed to happen again.

Boris will put off a decision like that until as late as possible. He will probably kick the can down the road long enough for vaccinations to start having some impact (if Oxford roll out starts next month) and hopefully prevent it from happening. My money is on England and Scotland having tight measures until spring but avoiding national lockdowns. England only finished a 1 month lock down 15 days ago!

 

[Scotrail12]

Boris will put off a decision like that until as late as possible. He will probably kick the can down the road long enough for vaccinations to start having some impact (if Oxford roll out starts next month) and hopefully prevent it from happening. My money is on England and Scotland having tight measures until spring but avoiding national lockdowns. England only finished a 1 month lock down 15 days ago!

Yeah, looking at case numbers, I really doubt either Scotland or England will go to full lockdown though I fully expect plenty of tier "upgrades". I think Fife and parts of Ayrshire are the ones looking at Tier 4 in Scotland (I guess Glasgow has had it's 'turn' for now and she doesn't want to alienate the voters there further) though I doubt we'll be seeing much relaxation anywhere for a while yet.

 

[Crossover]

If we get to a situation where Wales, NI and Scotland do it then I bet BJ will cave in and do it, probably announcing at something like 8pm on Christmas Eve.

The thought of him caving to further imposition fills me somewhat with dread

 

[Spartacus]

The problem with Wales’s last ‘firebreak’ lockdown is that it simply wasn’t long enough, that much was obvious from the outset. There’s no use having a firebreak if you decide to breach it while the fire’s still raging.

Realistically England’s was probably the minimum required, but should really have been followed up by almost everywhere going into Tier 3 after it ended, then there’s a good chance we’d have been able to drop to Tier 2 or lower by Christmas week. I think a clear roadmap giving expectations of things steadily being relaxed instead of the rollercoaster ride now being experienced would have been better for people’s mental health.

 

[C J Snarzell]

The crazy thing is that Herefordshire just over the border has moved from tier 2 to tier 3 from this Saturday begs the question how will this stop people crossing over from Wales to England for a night out.

Cheshire is in Tier 2 aswell. Therefore all the folks in North Wales will be descending on Chester & the Cheshire Oaks complex to enjoy post Christmas sales and a meal out.

CJ

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The four nation approach to all this has been disastrous, and must never be allowed to happen again.

Health policy/implementation is devolved, full stop.
That boat has sailed.
Westminster still largely controls the overall funding.

 

[duncanp]

I think a clear roadmap giving expectations of things steadily being relaxed instead of the rollercoaster ride now being experienced would have been better for people’s mental health.

I would like to think that when the tier system comes up for renewal in parliament at the end of January that MPs refuse to renew it unless there is a clear roadmap out of this endless cycle of lockdowns once and for all.

For some businesses, it is getting to the stage where it is less damaging to stay closed rather than re-open, pay a lot of money for new stock and supplies, only to be told to close a matter of weeks later because some silly politician has got the collywobbles over a slight increase in the figures.

No doubt pubs in Herefordshire will be pleased about going into Tier 1, but if there is a new lockdown in January they will all be back to square one.

Fixing a date for the budget (March 3rd) will finally start to focus people's minds on the economic impact of all this.

Perhaps when a sizeable proportion of the most vulnerable people have been vaccinated can be the start point on a roadmap back to something resembling normality.

 

[Smidster]

The problem with Wales’s last ‘firebreak’ lockdown is that it simply wasn’t long enough, that much was obvious from the outset. There’s no use having a firebreak if you decide to breach it while the fire’s still raging.

Realistically England’s was probably the minimum required, but should really have been followed up by almost everywhere going into Tier 3 after it ended, then there’s a good chance we’d have been able to drop to Tier 2 or lower by Christmas week. I think a clear roadmap giving expectations of things steadily being relaxed instead of the rollercoaster ride now being experienced would have been better for people’s mental health.

I completely agree with the first bit of your post - the Welsh Firebreak was far too short to do any good. 17 days is what 1 or 2 "life-cycles" for the virus in terms of reproduction so even if it were a highly effective measure then the reduction in spread over such a short period really isn't going to be all that much (Let's say is got "R" to 0.8 after two cycles you are still at around two thirds of where you were at the start which would still be a high level and back round the circle we go.

I get the idea of the second bit but am not sure how practical it is - I am sure all leaders would love to have a clear roadmap of getting out of this but unfortunately you can only do what the virus will let you. One of the biggest failures of Government for me has been in managing expectations - how many times have they talked about "12 weeks to see it off" or "normality by Christmas" - all that does is raise the public expectations to goals that you don't know you can deliver. Now we have a vaccine things should be better in the Spring but we can't know that for sure...who knows what curve balls are still to come.

England will go back into lockdown in January - It is inevitable even without the madness that is next week.

 

[Spartacus]

I completely agree with the first bit of your post - the Welsh Firebreak was far too short to do any good. 17 days is what 1 or 2 "life-cycles" for the virus in terms of reproduction so even if it were a highly effective measure then the reduction in spread over such a short period really isn't going to be all that much (Let's say is got "R" to 0.8 after two cycles you are still at around two thirds of where you were at the start which would still be a high level and back round the circle we go.

I get the idea of the second bit but am not sure how practical it is - I am sure all leaders would love to have a clear roadmap of getting out of this but unfortunately you can only do what the virus will let you. One of the biggest failures of Government for me has been in managing expectations - how many times have they talked about "12 weeks to see it off" or "normality by Christmas" - all that does is raise the public expectations to goals that you don't know you can deliver. Now we have a vaccine things should be better in the Spring but we can't know that for sure...who knows what curve balls are still to come.

England will go back into lockdown in January - It is inevitable even without the madness that is next week.

The destination was set out when the Christmas easements were announced, but with no clear roadmap to get there, making lockdown after inevitable. By going harsh after the second lockdown with the aim of keeping Christmas safe and avoiding a third lockdown I think things would have been much different, and with stated aims people would have been more on board than they are now, rather than having tier 3 areas that have dropped below what was the cut off for tier 2.

If we’d avoided a big flare up around Christmas I think that would have been the last lockdown we’d seen. People don’t socialise as much in the New Year as they do in December, outside it’s cold, wet, and they’ve often little money. Though it would have been inevitably different this year to an extent I think it would have been a ‘natural’ curb on transmission.

 

[duncanp]

And now Mark Drakeford is blaming everyone but himself for the increase in cases in Wales, and for the need to impose yet another lockdown.

Mark Drakeford blames 'selfish' behaviour for fresh lockdown in Wales

Welsh First Minister Mark Drakeford insisted his 17-day firebreak had worked but afterwards some people had acted like coronavirus was 'in the rear view mirror'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

It is not fair to make people in Wales the scapegoats for the increase in cases.

Yes, in some senses he is right in that the "firebreak" worked, but unless you have a plan for what you are going to do when it ends, cases will just increase again until you are in the same position as you were before the lockdown occurred.

It seems to me that Mr Drakeford allowed non essential shops, pubs and restaurants to reopen in Wales, and is now saying that the increase in cases is due to people having the temerity to do what the government allowed them to do.

And if going the wrong way down a supermarket aisle really is responsible for the increase in cases, then doesn't that prove once and for all that compulsory face coverings are useless in preventing virus transmission?

Mark Drakeford has blamed 'selfish' behaviour by the public for forcing a fresh lockdown in Wales.

The Welsh First Minister insisted his 17-day firebreak at the end of October had worked but afterwards some people had acted like coronavirus was 'in the rear view mirror'.

He said the alarming spike in cases was the 'summation of small acts of selfishness' with individuals going the wrong way down aisles in supermarkets, or popping into friends' homes.

Mr Drakeford also predicted England will have to toughen its restrictions further in the New Year because the 'cunning' virus will find a way to spread.

Wales has broken ranks with the rest of the UK over Christmas rules as infections rise, with just two families allowed to form a 'bubble' rather than three.

Non-essential shops and hairdressers are being ordered to shut from December 24, and pubs and restaurants will follow on Christmas day.

There will then be a full 'Level 4' lockdown from December 28, when the festive bubbles expire.

Welsh First Minister Mark Drakeford insisted his 17-day firebreak had worked but afterwards some people had acted like coronavirus was 'in the rear view mirror'

Speaking on the BBC's Newscast, Mr Drakeford denied that the Firebreak lockdown had failed.

He said the plan had done 'everything that we expected of it'.

'It set the clock back by three weeks,' he said. 'What we didn't anticipate was the speed at which coronavirus would start to circulate again.'

Mr Drakeford said that the country was facing a 'very cunning virus' that 'looks for every opportunity to spread'.

Asked whether people had stopped obeying the rules as well after the Autumn squeeze, Mr Drakeford said: 'Undoubtedly after a firebreak people are fatigued, people are fed up, people wish that coronavirus was in the rear view mirror. To an extent some people decide to behave as though that were the case.'

He went on: 'As somebody put it me last week, it is the summation of the small acts of selfishness that in some ways all of us are prone to in our own lives, that cumulatively add up to the difficulties that we see.

'It is that small decision to go the wrong way down the one way system in a supermarket. That small decision to pop in and say something to somebody by going into their house when you know you shouldn't.

'By themselves they look trivial... cumulatively they add up to the sort of difficulties we're facing in Wales today.'

Mr Drakeford insisted he was not 'disappointed' with the Welsh public, pointing out that he himself almost went the wrong way down a supermarket aisle recently.

'This is ordinary human behaviour, understandable human behaviour... it doesn't need that many people who are not doing that for the impact to be felt not just in their lives but in the lives of everybody else as well,' he said.

Mr Drakeford also took a swipe a lockdown sceptics, saying he had followed advice from scientists to 'act early and act deeply'.

'That leads you into trouble with some members of the public who are not convinced that what you are doing is necessary or proportionate,' he said.

In a grim message to Boris Johnson - who has refused to rule out another full lockdown in England - Mr Drakeford said 'as soon as you begin to loosen restrictions this virus finds a way to begin circulating again'.

'We're going into our next Tier 4 lockdown period after Christmas... my prediction would be that in other parts of the UK as current restrictions are lessened they too will find themselves with numbers escalating and more action needing to be taken,' he said.

 

[adc82140]

"Going the wrong way down supermarket aises". Give your head a wobble Drakeford.

 

[bramling]

Health policy/implementation is devolved, full stop.
That boat has sailed.
Westminster still largely controls the overall funding.

Devolving health policy is one thing, however pandemic management is another matter entirely. It’s been bad enough with Boris, but made even worse by the other three all putting their own slant on things.

 

[Bantamzen]

"Going the wrong way down supermarket aises". Give your head a wobble Drakeford.

What a prat!

 

[Crossover]

And now Mark Drakeford is blaming everyone but himself for the increase in cases in Wales, and for the need to impose yet another lockdown.

Mark Drakeford blames 'selfish' behaviour for fresh lockdown in Wales

Welsh First Minister Mark Drakeford insisted his 17-day firebreak had worked but afterwards some people had acted like coronavirus was 'in the rear view mirror'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

It is not fair to make people in Wales the scapegoats for the increase in cases.

Yes, in some senses he is right in that the "firebreak" worked, but unless you have a plan for what you are going to do when it ends, cases will just increase again until you are in the same position as you were before the lockdown occurred.

It seems to me that Mr Drakeford allowed non essential shops, pubs and restaurants to reopen in Wales, and is now saying that the increase in cases is due to people having the temerity to do what the government allowed them to do.

And if going the wrong way down a supermarket aisle really is responsible for the increase in cases, then doesn't that prove once and for all that compulsory face coverings are useless in preventing virus transmission?

More sound bites in that statement than one can shake a stick at

The one that really gets me is "because the 'cunning' virus will find a way to spread." - is the virus really cunning, or politicians just deluded?

 

[bramling]

And now Mark Drakeford is blaming everyone but himself for the increase in cases in Wales, and for the need to impose yet another lockdown.

Mark Drakeford blames 'selfish' behaviour for fresh lockdown in Wales

Welsh First Minister Mark Drakeford insisted his 17-day firebreak had worked but afterwards some people had acted like coronavirus was 'in the rear view mirror'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

It is not fair to make people in Wales the scapegoats for the increase in cases.

Yes, in some senses he is right in that the "firebreak" worked, but unless you have a plan for what you are going to do when it ends, cases will just increase again until you are in the same position as you were before the lockdown occurred.

It seems to me that Mr Drakeford allowed non essential shops, pubs and restaurants to reopen in Wales, and is now saying that the increase in cases is due to people having the temerity to do what the government allowed them to do.

And if going the wrong way down a supermarket aisle really is responsible for the increase in cases, then doesn't that prove once and for all that compulsory face coverings are useless in preventing virus transmission?

Great, isn't it? Perhaps people are fed up with having given up 10 months of their life, time they will never get back, and despite having done that it's *still* not good enough for some people.

My local facebook is full of it today - the blame machine is in overdrive now the area has gone into tier 3.

When are people going to wake up and turn on these useless incompetent politicians?

 

[duncanp]

More pathetic excuses for my own government's failure sound bites in that statement than one can shake a stick at

There, I have fixed that for you, so that it more accurately reflects the truth.

 

[Crossover]

There, I have fixed that for you, so that it more accurately reflects the truth.

Thankfully, not living in Wales, he doesn't represent me!

 

[Dai Corner]

Thankfully, not living in Wales, he doesn't represent me!

He doesn't represent the wishes of the 68% of Welsh voters who didn't vote Labour in 2016 either.

 

[Richard Scott]

When are people going to wake up and turn on these useless incompetent politicians?

I've sent numerous emails to Welsh Assembly and local MP and rarely get a reply, if I do usual piffle about saving lives, NHS etc. Know it's not making a difference but what else can I do?

 

[Dai Corner]

I've sent numerous emails to Welsh Assembly and local MP and rarely get a reply, if I do usual piffle about saving lives, NHS etc. Know it's not making a difference but what else can I do?

Write to Opposition MSs. Even if your constituency MS is Labour (or Lib Dem) a regional one will be from one of the opposition Parties.

 

[duncanp]

I've sent numerous emails to Welsh Assembly and local MP and rarely get a reply, if I do usual piffle about saving lives, NHS etc. Know it's not making a difference but what else can I do?

You can vote them out at the next election.

But Mark Drakeford probably doesn't give a <insert expletive here> as he is retiring at the next election and won't have to face the voters of Wales, and give an account of his handling of the pandemic.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

You can vote them out at the next election.

But Mark Drakeford probably doesn't give a <insert expletive here> as he is retiring at the next election and won't have to face the voters of Wales, and give an account of his handling of the pandemic.

Not easy in Wales, where the control freakery of Labour might possibly be replaced by the same or worse from Plaid.
Cons and Lib Dems are strong in a few mainly rural areas but never likely to form the government.
The urban areas of south-east Wales determine the Welsh Government.

 

[Richard Scott]

Write to Opposition MSs. Even if your constituency MS is Labour (or Lib Dem) a regional one will be from one of the opposition Parties.

Good idea, thank you, I'll do that.

 

[Reliablebeam]

My family in North Wales are raging about this whole business, and they have been on the pro or certainly 'ambivalent' view of lockdown.

This also throws my Christmas plans into doubt. I was going to spend a bit of time with my support bubble there, coming back down to the Thames valley on the 2nd January. These plans are clearly in doubt now, I will have to scrutinise the regulations and find out what is and is not permitted. My family say to go back as planned but then it's not them that has to take the risk of TfW and the north Wales coast's BTP finest who boast of hassling travellers! I invite comment..

 

[Dai Corner]

My family in North Wales are raging about this whole business, and they have been on the pro or certainly 'ambivalent' view of lockdown.

This also throws my Christmas plans into doubt. I was going to spend a bit of time with my support bubble there, coming back down to the Thames valley on the 2nd January. These plans are clearly in doubt now, I will have to scrutinise the regulations and find out what is and is not permitted. My family say to go back as planned but then it's not them that has to take the risk of TfW and the north Wales coast's BTP finest who boast of hassling travellers! I invite comment..

If you're meeting in Wales you're allowed two households plus one single person living alone in a 'Christmas bubble' as I understand it.

 

[Richard Scott]

I see new restrictions coming in come with more lunacy, pubs may not be allowed to sell alcohol until March or unless in tier 2 and only with a meal. Who do they pay to come up with this, it's in no way scientific. Utter, utter stupidity. Are there other countries in Europe where the politicians go out of their way to come up with the most ludicrous rules and restrictions, if not we must be a laughing stock?
In the meantime more people's livelihoods are ruined, more jobs lost and some of us get more depressed at no sign of an end.

 

[Reliablebeam]

If you're meeting in Wales you're allowed two households plus one single person living alone in a 'Christmas bubble' as I understand it.

Thanks for that, more understanding now! I'm very jittery about what to do on the 27th/28th though- my trains were booked for the 2nd. I really wish the UK government hadn't bothered with all this as it has created an expectation on the part of my parents...

 

[Dai Corner]

Thanks for that, more understanding now! I'm very jittery about what to do on the 27th/28th though- my trains were booked for the 2nd. I really wish the UK government hadn't bothered with all this as it has created an expectation on the part of my parents...

Here's a link to the Welsh Government rules / guidance. You would need to travel back no later than 27th.

Coronavirus (COVID-19) | Topic | GOV.WALES

Advice and support on coronavirus

gov.wales

 

[Bikeman78]

And if going the wrong way down a supermarket aisle really is responsible for the increase in cases, then doesn't that prove once and for all that compulsory face coverings are useless in preventing virus transmission?

My supermarket of choice has never had a one way system so how is it possible to go "the wrong way?" Does anyone seriously think it makes any difference? Not everyone shops at the same speed so they overtake each other in the aisles even if they are all going the same way.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Welsh lockdown brought forward to start at midnight tonight. Christmas relaxation limited to Christmas Day only.