New platform and 60 extra carriages for Waterloo commuters

[Schnellzug]

The 'Hampshire Locals' refers to a fairly significant number of peak extra services that run solely in the DC area, I listed them in a post a while back, but search can't find it. :cry: Stuff like this, which may not be exactly up to date, this is from 2009:



If they were all replaced by EMUs a reasonable number of DMUs, about half a dozen maybe, would become available for use elsewhere, but that doesn't seem to be the plan at all.

i suppose some of those, though, would be positioning workings so they might still have to run ECS even so.

On that theme, 159s used to run a very roundabout Reading-Brighton service via Eastleigh, didn't they. And Turbostars as well.

 

[swt_passenger]

i suppose some of those, though, would be positioning workings so they might still have to run ECS even so.

All those listed are in passenger service. If you add the ECS moves to allow for them the list probably doubles in length, but that is largely irrelevant, because if the services were all given over to EMUs the ECS runs would be completely different, with the stock arriving from EMU depots or stabling locations.

 

[Schnellzug]

All those listed are in passenger service. If you add the ECS moves to allow for them the list probably doubles in length, but that is largely irrelevant, because if the services were all given over to EMUs the ECS runs would be completely different, with the stock arriving from EMU depots or stabling locations.

What i mean is, I expect some of them (Portsmouth-Basingstoke for instance) would probably be ECS moves to get them to where they next needed to be, so they figured that they may as well run them in service to make some revenue out of them. I don't know if there'd be enough demand for a service from Portsmouth to Basingstoke at 05:00 to necessitate 2 x 159s unless they were then used on (i presume) a peak working from somewhere else.

 

[swt_passenger]

What i mean is, I expect some of them (Portsmouth-Basingstoke for instance) would probably be ECS moves to get them to where they next needed to be, so they figured that they may as well run them in service to make some revenue out of them. I don't know if there'd be enough demand for a service from Portsmouth to Basingstoke at 05:00 to necessitate 2 x 159s unless they were then used on (i presume) a peak working from somewhere else.

Ah I see what you mean. That particular working is probably the only one that goes on to form a separate 0642 Basingstoke to Waterloo service, (ie it isn't advertised as a through service), it arrives at Waterloo at 0739 then it does a Waterloo to Exeter/Salisbury, and carries on in that circuit.

But there's a correspondingly lightly used DMU working from Salisbury, an early morning up peak working that runs back ECS from Waterloo at 0720, then sits in Basingstoke down sidings all day to form the 1624 and 1724 off Basingstoke. Those two trains run ECS to Fratton after their evening peak passenger services to form the following morning's 0500.

So although this involves two pairs of 159s, together they still mean a single pair of 159s spends 24 hours wholly on the third rail network, and with extra EMUs that wouldn't be needed - although some retiming of services would be necessary...

 

[vikingdriver]

If they found those 158/9s surplus to requirements, perhaps they could look at strengthening some of the West of England services or perhaps starting some Paington services again, which from what I understand, were very popular!

 

[Goldfish62]

Quick update on the Windsor lines platform lengthening. Ashford, Mortlake and Richmond are complete. All the rest between Vauxhall and Staines are at various stages, except Feltham, which is problematic and is likely to use SDO.

 

[Helvellyn]

Quick update on the Windsor lines platform lengthening. Ashford, Mortlake and Richmond are complete. All the rest between Vauxhall and Staines are at various stages, except Feltham, which is problematic and is likely to use SDO.

At least it should be ASDO, which means the train will know how many coaches are on the platform and open the doors on those accordingly - a bit like Southern use I gather. Otherwise, front 5 at Feltham would be a nightmare!

 

[Via Bank]

At least it should be ASDO, which means the train will know how many coaches are on the platform and open the doors on those accordingly - a bit like Southern use I gather. Otherwise, front 5 at Feltham would be a nightmare!

The units would have to be fitted with "true" SDO anyway, because the method in use at the moment on the 458s is to lock out the entire unit, including the passcom alarms.

I can't imagine SWT will want their shiny new 458/460 hybrids to be ten-car trains that effectively become five-car trains west of Twickenham.

 

[swt_passenger]

The latest (October 11) version of the CP4 enhancement plan includes:

"...fitment of Automatic Selective Door Opening (ASDO) to SSWT’s Desiro (450 and 444) Rolling Stock."

which implies a system like SN's GPS and beacon operated system, rather than manual 'unit only' SDO as now. What is odd is that this is mentioned under the heading of 10 car train lengthening on the Windsor side, but they only mention Desiros, not 458s.

 

[Dstock7080]

All the rest between Vauxhall and Staines are at various stages, except Feltham, which is problematic and is likely to use SDO.

Just west of Feltham platforms some work is taking place, equipment cabinets etc. Now that buses no longer traverse the level crossing are they intending to close it?

 

[JonathanH]

Quick update on the Windsor lines platform lengthening. Ashford, Mortlake and Richmond are complete. All the rest between Vauxhall and Staines are at various stages, except Feltham, which is problematic and is likely to use SDO.

Interesting two-track working over this week with the outer platforms in use for all trains at Putney and Barnes - the only trains on the inner lines are the xx15/xx45 Hounslows which stop at Wandsworth Town to allow the Reading to pass and then cross over. Slight retimings in place.

 

[Matt Taylor]

Lots of work underway at Putney and Barnes, it looks as if the up fast line through Putney has been slightly realigned to the south, this would then allow the up slow to be similarly slewed thus giving enough width to extend the platform. North Sheen is also complete.

 

[Goldfish62]

Lots of work underway at Putney and Barnes, it looks as if the up fast line through Putney has been slightly realigned to the south, this would then allow the up slow to be similarly slewed thus giving enough width to extend the platform. North Sheen is also complete.

Ah that's clever. I did wonder how on earth they were going to extend the platform on the up slow.

 

[yummy125]

Why take so long to re-instate the platforms..?

 

[Goldfish62]

Just west of Feltham platforms some work is taking place, equipment cabinets etc. Now that buses no longer traverse the level crossing are they intending to close it?

The CP4 October 2011 update confirms that Feltham will not be extended and will use ASDO. Also, a number of other stations, eg, Egham and Hounslow, are not now being extended even though this would be straightforward. Presumably this is because the funding has been transferred to Richmond, Putney (P1) and Wandsworth (P1). which were originally not going to be extended, but now are.

Couple of other matters of interest:
Extension to 12 cars for Virginia Water to Reading is now in CP4.
Mainline inner suburban platforms being extended to take into account that operation will be by 455 AND 456, hence no SDO available. First time I've seen it officially acknowledged that the 456s are going to SWT.

 

[swt_passenger]

T
Couple of other matters of interest:
Extension to 12 cars for Virginia Water to Reading is now in CP4.

I thought it was still just a proposal for CP5 (albeit highly likely).

It wasn't mentioned as going ahead in the Oct 2011 CP4 update, although they do list development work happening within CP4. However there should be a Dec 2011 update published about now if previous years are anything to go by.

 

[WatcherZero]

Couple of extra details, cant remember if they were mentioned.

Value of work is £42m, contract signed with Alstom and subcontracted to Wabtec. The four unconverted cabs will be broken up for spare parts. First delivery May 2013 with the full work complete by June 2014. Will be known as Class 458/5.

 

[swt_passenger]

That value of contract comes in at nearly £1.2 million per completed unit, so it tends to suggest that they really are going for the full set of new gangwayed cabs as predicted a while back in MR.

That seems to be the only way you could reasonably come up with those sort of costs? It may include some depot works, but I'd expect they'd be quite a small proportion of the overall figure...

 

[WatcherZero]

458's and 460's will both be fully refurbed, mentioned Wabtec will be doing 'heavy carbody structure work under Alstom design and management'. 92% of parts will be manufactured in the UK. The 458's first class carriages were refurbed only two years ago so I guess unless their stupid the work would incorporate that.

 

[jopsuk]

As a minor point, presumably when finished SWT will have them in the "Metro" livery- ie red, as found on the 455s?

 

[swt_passenger]

The services they will take over are generally operated by 450/5s - if there is a supposed logic to the three SWT colour schemes the 458/5s (as people now seem to be calling them) ought really to be blue...

 

[cookiescrumble]

Surely they would stay in their current white livery? Or are they planning to repaint the whole unit.

 

[swt_passenger]

Surely they would stay in their current white livery? Or are they planning to repaint the whole unit.

The internal layout of the 458s is equivalent to the 450s, so logically if the type of train is denoted by colour they should be blue already. The 458s were probably ordered before SWT had decided on the three colour schemes though...

No idea if they'll be repainted though - it doesn't really matter.

 

[Goldfish62]

The internal layout of the 458s is equivalent to the 450s, so logically if the type of train is denoted by colour they should be blue already. The 458s were probably ordered before SWT had decided on the three colour schemes though...

No idea if they'll be repainted though - it doesn't really matter.

They're due a repaint. There's a fair bit of corrosion in places where the paintwork has worn. Remember that the bodyshells were last painted around 1998 when fabricated.

I predict they'll be in inner suburban red, to contrast with blue desiros on the outer suburban Reading service. I also read in Modern Railways that the intention was to alter the station to 2+ 2 as per 455s, but that may have changed.

 

[jopsuk]

Quite. The white scheme they're in dates from before Stagecoach decided on the idea of White for Express/Intercity/Long Distance, Blue for Outer Suburban/Rural/locos and Red for Metro.
They are losing 1st class, yes? The 450/5s won't have been repainted to red as they weren't due a repaint and have ended up being a temporary measure anyway.

 

[swt_passenger]

They're due a repaint. There's a fair bit of corrosion in places where the paintwork has worn. Remember that the bodyshells were last painted around 1998 when fabricated.

Yes I should have written 'no idea if they'll be reliveried'. It's the actual colour scheme that doesn't really matter.