New Somerset and Dorset Railway

[Kinghambranch]

It was an attempt at a bit of humour kinghambranch. What with all the negativity on here I think we need to consider that in many cases the only thing missing for any line reopening is for people not to believe it can happen. I wasn't just commenting on yourself, so proababy shouldn't have mentioned you. It's good to know that you are involved in so many railway interests and hope they all succeed.

Thanks Bill EWS, I will let you into a little secret (well and whoever else reads this stuff!) many years ago some farmland came up for sale including a stretch of the Kingham-Cheltenham trackbed between Notgrove and Bourton on the Water. I contacted the Estate Agents and offered to buy the 3 miles or so of trackbed, cess, bridges, culverts, rabbits, badgers and everything else but the owner would not split it as parts of the trackbed made a useful farm road. I could have afforded it at the time but now, well, perhaps not!Had I got together with more like-minded souls to protect this corridor and even put some track on it (have you ever tried to get into Bourton on the Water by car on a public holiday?) I would probably have succeeded. In the end all I came away with was a concrete gradient post (very heavy) and I paid the farmer for it. It now graces my garden within whistle distance of steam specials on the ECML. So I'll be the first to admit that I have had the occasional crazy dream about reopening closed lines. I think what changes dreams to reality is talking to all the right people and starting a money trail. If enough people can see the reason for something, and there is money in it, it'll happen.
Another confession: in 1981 I stood on the construction site platform of Toddington Station and saw the Barry hulks of 2807, 7821 and 7828 together with a number of people picking bricks out of heaps, moving sleepers and track and generally trying to tidy up a derelict yard and station building. Having visited the Mid Hants, Didcot and the SVR, I shook my head wistfully knowing that this regeneration was too late. Unfortunately I, and others, went back to help out. In 2008, I stood at the same spot and saw 5 locomotives in steam, including 34007, 92203, 3440 and 7903 whilst the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight flew overhead. I could never have imagined something so magnificent. Like so many things, the GWR has done well because local tourism and local authorities suddenly see the heritage railway "scrapyard" turn into a money maker. Get these people on your side and life might just become easier. That will soon happen with the Midsomer Norton site and as for the rest of the S&D, well, let's give the folks who are working hard the benefit of the doubt! Enough said from me I think, I don't want to bore you folks to death!

 

[Greenback]

I'm impressed by your optimism Kinghambranch! But if it's not possible to buy 3 miles of former trackbed in the Cotswolds, how difficult must it be to purchase the trackbed of the S&D? Including such deviations that are necessary to avoid buildings put up since the trains last ran? The only way would appear to be CPO's?

Also, how willing are the othe rorganisations involved in the S&D to work under an umbrella organisation? The intention of the new S&D appears to be to reinstate a modern strategic main line railway connecting Bath and Bournemouth not a heritage operation. The station sites currently in operation are looking to recreate the S&D as was, not a main line. Have they been approached? If they own their land and trackbed it could be a major hurdle if they want to operate a heritage attraction and be a money maker! I am uncertain how DMU's from Bristol direct to Bournemouth would cover their costs let alone make money under the present system. More likely it would require further subsidy, whether from local councils, central government or both.

 

[Ivo]

I'm impressed by your optimism Kinghambranch! But if it's not possible to buy 3 miles of former trackbed in the Cotswolds, how difficult must it be to purchase the trackbed of the S&D? Including such deviations that are necessary to avoid buildings put up since the trains last ran? The only way would appear to be CPO's?

Also, how willing are the othe rorganisations involved in the S&D to work under an umbrella organisation? The intention of the new S&D appears to be to reinstate a modern strategic main line railway connecting Bath and Bournemouth not a heritage operation. The station sites currently in operation are looking to recreate the S&D as was, not a main line. Have they been approached? If they own their land and trackbed it could be a major hurdle if they want to operate a heritage attraction and be a money maker! I am uncertain how DMU's from Bristol direct to Bournemouth would cover their costs let alone make money under the present system. More likely it would require further subsidy, whether from local councils, central government or both.

Hmm... A "strategic main line railway connecting Bath and Bournemouth"... Is such a route really necessary? There are services between here and the South Coast already, which are in line for an upgrade to four-car services (please, please, please! I don't fancy standing again like I did on Saturday!), which run as close as Southampton. Alas, therein lies the problem, there are two routes from here to that area already. If Bath to Weymouth exists, and Bath to Portsmouth exists, why add Bath to Bournemouth? What I would say, however, is that such a route could in theory be managed, either by doubling the Heart of Wessex Line and introducing a Dorchester bypass (and probable station, which weakens the idea), or by introducing a new service from Bristol to Bournemouth via Salisbury*. Essentially... As much as I would like to see the S&D up and running again, I just can't see it working. The costs are too high, and the competition too great.

** Bath to Bournemouth services...

Improve Cardiff Central to Portsmouth to run TPE-style, i.e. a true regional InterCity service, with calls only at Newport, Bristol TM, Bath Spa, Westbury, Salisbury, So'ton Central, Fareham, Fratton and Portsmouth & S. Then pass the present stopping pattern, albeit it from Bristol Parkway and not Cardiff Central, to a new service to Poole, i.e. Filton AW, Bristol TM, Bath Spa, Bradford-on-A, Trowbridge, Westbury, Warminster, Salisbury, Romsey, So'ton Central, Totton, Brockenhurst and Bournemouth, entailing with a reversal at So'ton Central.

 

[Greenback]

Hmm... A "strategic main line railway connecting Bath and Bournemouth"... Is such a route really necessary? There are services between here and the South Coast already, which are in line for an upgrade to four-car services (please, please, please! I don't fancy standing again like I did on Saturday!), which run as close as Southampton. Alas, therein lies the problem, there are two routes from here to that area already. If Bath to Weymouth exists, and Bath to Portsmouth exists, why add Bath to Bournemouth? What I would say, however, is that such a route could in theory be managed, either by doubling the Heart of Wessex Line and introducing a Dorchester bypass (and probable station, which weakens the idea), or by introducing a new service from Bristol to Bournemouth via Salisbury*. Essentially... As much as I would like to see the S&D up and running again, I just can't see it working. The costs are too high, and the competition too great.

** Bath to Bournemouth services...

Improve Cardiff Central to Portsmouth to run TPE-style, i.e. a true regional InterCity service, with calls only at Newport, Bristol TM, Bath Spa, Westbury, Salisbury, So'ton Central, Fareham, Fratton and Portsmouth & S. Then pass the present stopping pattern, albeit it from Bristol Parkway and not Cardiff Central, to a new service to Poole, i.e. Filton AW, Bristol TM, Bath Spa, Bradford-on-A, Trowbridge, Westbury, Warminster, Salisbury, Romsey, So'ton Central, Totton, Brockenhurst and Bournemouth, entailing with a reversal at So'ton Central.

That's my point! The OP and the website both indicate that the 'restored S&D will be a new main line with modern stock but I can;t see where the custom or income will come from!

We were ona Cardiff - Portsmouth train the other weekend, it wasn't very nice because of the chronic overcrowding! My priority would be to improve the services through busy towns and cities that are actually overcrowded now before trying to reinstate a line through relatively sparsely populated areas that has, in parts, long since been built on!

I like your idea for the route, by the way!

 

[Kinghambranch]

The statement below is from the New Somerset & Dorset Website (see earlier post for link)

"Our aim is to use a mix of lobbying, strategic track-bed purchase, fundraising and encouragement and support of groups already preserving sections of the route, as well as working with local and national government, local people, countryside groups and railway enthusiasts (of all types!) To restore sections of the route as they become viable".

The umbrella organisation is currently talking to all the various projects involved in reopening bits of the old S&D, currently very fragmented of course. I personally don't know how willing some of the current project management and volunteers will be working under a larger umbrella organisation - people can be very "iffy" about "their" pet project. We went through this stage on the GWR but grew up and got over it. I will be the first to admit however, that if you are talking about volunteers, then its no good using the "do this" approach. I've had 30 years of being told what to do as well as telling other people what to do but it doesn't actually work like that even in my business as negotiation is everything - retirement beckons this month anyway!

The New S&D's main argument is quite simple really - if there isn't a train you won't travel because roads will become derelict, flying will be for the very few wealthy people and the train will be the only way to travel if you want to get anywhere or send goods anywhere. Takes some swallowing eh? Like I said, the jury is still out but every day a new S&D is less crazy than the day before.

 

[Christopher125]

Peak Oil WILL NOT lead to derelict roads, and trying to suggest that it does is scaremongering. If there's nothing to power vehicles, whats going to rebuild the railway - navvies?

For the record, Peak Oil is based on the theory that as the supply of cheap oil dwindles the price will rise over a period of time - this will lead to other technologies such as battery and hydrogen power becoming more viable.

That said, even if these technologies cant replace diesel and petrol at a similar price and restricts the use of personal transport then it might well have far reaching effects on how and where people work and live - but it wont mean a reinstated S&D; a subsidised bus service, whether powered by batteries or fuel cells, would be far cheaper than spending hundreds of millions on a railway only serving the relatively small population along its route.

Chris

 

[Kinghambranch]

Peak Oil WILL NOT lead to derelict roads, and trying to suggest that it does is scaremongering. If there's nothing to power vehicles, whats going to rebuild the railway - navvies?

For the record, Peak Oil is based on the theory that as the supply of cheap oil dwindles the price will rise over a period of time - this will lead to other technologies such as battery and hydrogen power becoming more viable.

That said, even if these technologies cant replace diesel and petrol at a similar price and restricts the use of personal transport then it might well have far reaching effects on how and where people work and live - but it wont mean a reinstated S&D; a subsidised bus service, whether powered by batteries or fuel cells, would be far cheaper than spending hundreds of millions on a railway only serving the relatively small population along its route.

Chris

Christopher (patron saint of travel I believe - strange that the GWR didn't name one of their "Saint" Class locomotives "Saint Christopher" it would have been most appropriate, but I digress). I am not scaremongering so please don't accuse me of doing something that I'm not doing, thank you. its all about supply and demand. I happen to agree with the view that scarce hydrocarbons WILL mean a reinstated S&D. Again I must refer you to the appropriate websites below because I think that might explain the situation and viewpoint much better than I can. The whole thing is controversial and, like most things that have affected mankind in the past, can be best handled by evolution rather than revolution (the latter tends to be most painful!) Your explanation of Peak Oil belies the complexity of the situation a little. Again, the restoration of the new Somerset and Dorset Railway will, according to its supporters (including me) depend not just on those populations that live alongside it (and they are rather bigger than they were in 1966 when the line closed) but as part of a new national network. The S&D won't be the only line to reopen I'm sure, whether by the use of electrically powered plant or steam navvies - what's wrong with modern steam?

http://www.wolfatthedoor.org.uk/

http://somersetanddorset.blogspot.com/

Anyway, I commend the sites to you and, if after reading them, you still feel the same way then that's fine, we will agree to differ but not, I hope, in the view that railways are a great way to travel when invested in properly! Perhaps you may all wish to join the New S&D?

 

[Christopher125]

Kingham, i have no problem with Peak Oil; the issue is your use of it justify this bizarre scheme - it doesnt make sense.

As supply falls, demand increases and price rises. As the price rises, so proven albeit expensive technologies like fuel cells and electric cars become more mainstream.

Now Peak Oil might occur too soon for a seamless shift, and there could be severe economic problems in many countries, but no one is going to be stranded all of a sudden with no way to get about - instead, as fuel prices increase those who cant afford to commute will move away. Sad perhaps, but not worth spending hundreds of millions to stop.

Chris

 

[43021HST]

I wonder what the group promises will actually come true, it would be nice but I sadly doubt it.

 

[Kinghambranch]

I wonder what the group promises will actually come true, it would be nice but I sadly doubt it.

Well I think it is a very big leap of faith so I don't doubt your doubting, if you know what I mean. There are still many "wild cards" that could prevent a reinstatement of the whole line but some of the things promised by the new S&D have already come true and chief amongst these have been:

Telling anyone who will listen what the intentions are.
Getting links established with all current S&D projects.
Surveying the trackbed and setting up regional "watchers" to monitor and in some cases, commence preservation on existing trackbed.
Establish new support groups, chiefly at Blandford.
Purchase trackbed where possible - the Midford site purchase is currently going through.
Working with "competitors" such as Sustrans rather than "crossing swords" with them (you may have your own views on the latter, it would be inappropriate for me to comment!).

So, to quote the station motto of RAF Cosford "Only the first step is difficult." A heck of a lot more steps to go though!

 

[Christopher125]

Kingham, could you comment on my last post? Im genuinely interested in where you dont agree with my logic.

At the moment i strongly suggest you hold back on encouraging others to spend time, effort and money on this scheme until you can give a chain of events or a description of how we get to a situation where a rebuilt S&D makes sense. What kind of timescales are we talking about, why dont you think alternative fuel sources for personal transport will take off etc etc...

Chris

 

[Kinghambranch]

Kingham, could you comment on my last post? Im genuinely interested in where you dont agree with my logic.

At the moment i strongly suggest you hold back on encouraging others to spend time, effort and money on this scheme until you can give a chain of events or a description of how we get to a situation where a rebuilt S&D makes sense. What kind of timescales are we talking about, why dont you think alternative fuel sources for personal transport will take off etc etc...

Chris

Christopher, I don't have to comment on anything but I'm not going to try and duck responsibility. However, I'm only a paid up supporter of the S&D Midsomer Norton Group at present. I have never disagreed with what they were and are trying to do; what I could not accept, until quite recently, was the New S&D Group's aim and stance based on future availability of personal and public transport. Even now, I personally still believe that some electric vehicles will take over from "fossil fuelled" vehicles and that it will be very difficult to prise joe public away from his/her personal transport. I am, however, prepared to advocate what the new S&D is planning and, in some cases already starting, because they appear to have the backing of more and more people with each passing day. All I can do is recommend to you to do what I did, read Mr Steve Sainsbury's new S&D Blogsite and then possibly attend the next meeting which is on Saturday, 24 April 2010, 13:30 - 15.00 (lunch/social) then 16.00 Public meeting (ALL welcome) at The Railway Hotel, Oakfield Street, BLANDFORD FORUM, DT11 7EX. I'm too far away from the S&D route to volunteer physical help so I'll support their cause from afar. There are other railways, of course there are, that should never have closed, I know the Waverley Route is bit one and it is being reopened, albeit not overnight.

http://somersetanddorset.blogspot.com/

I'll finish with a quote from Mr S, who is far more academically and economically qualified than I.

"All through this piece the clues are there. If any government seriously believed roads DID have a future then obviously this investment would be made - it would be madness NOT to invest in the road network. But we know that roads don't have a future - no amount of scrabbling about trying to replace oil is ever going to produce the levels of traffic we have today. There's no possibility of road transport being used for freight in the future -except for very short runs where private sidings, goods lines or goods tramways haven't yet been built. All long distance travel will quickly switch from road (and air) to rail. Private cars will become really scarce and the roads themselves will begin to physically vanish from the landscape, apart from those adopted by Sustrans, horse riders and walkers. This is the reality and these mugs at the anachronistic Road Users' Alliance have found themselves on the wrong side of history.

I almost feel sorry for them!"

 

[Christopher125]

Kingham, this is precisely the problem - the people supporting this and pushing it dont actually understand Peak Oil and its effects, they merely find it a convenient excuse for some fairytale rebuilding of the S&D.

Lets be clear here, there are alternatives to petrol and diesel vehicles, and they work; the problem is the cost and lack of support. If the price of oil continues to rise, they will become cost effective.

That said, if they dont then the economy will suffer massively because as we found out post-war the vast victorian railway network cant compete with the roads on price and flexibility - the effect of that economic damage on the treasury, and the huge social problems it would cause, would make any kind of largescale rail renaissance completely impossible.

I stand by my assertion assertion that anyone who suggests roads will become derelict is scaremongering, and this only hurts legitimate debate about the real effects of Peak Oil.

Chris

 

[Spagnoletti]

"All through this piece the clues are there. If any government seriously believed roads DID have a future then obviously this investment would be made - it would be madness NOT to invest in the road network. But we know that roads don't have a future - no amount of scrabbling about trying to replace oil is ever going to produce the levels of traffic we have today. There's no possibility of road transport being used for freight in the future -except for very short runs where private sidings, goods lines or goods tramways haven't yet been built. All long distance travel will quickly switch from road (and air) to rail. Private cars will become really scarce and the roads themselves will begin to physically vanish from the landscape, apart from those adopted by Sustrans, horse riders and walkers. This is the reality and these mugs at the anachronistic Road Users' Alliance have found themselves on the wrong side of history.

I almost feel sorry for them!"

I can't help thinking that if the economy changes in such a massive way then the last thing we'll all be thinking about is reinstating rail links through comparatively sparsely populated parts of the country.

Just because Mr Sainsbury has put together a nice collection of rhetorical assertions doesn't make him right. Road use won't become impossible overnight and if it did future governments would be considering the slightly more taxing question of how to feed everyone and put down the riots now that the economy had collapsed. Drawing a line between peak oil and some misty eyed view of 1950's style goods distribution by rail is a bit specious, to say the least.

 

[Greenback]

Personally I can see that lifestyles will have to change at some point in the future and we will need to go back to a more locally based way of living without relying on flying goods in from all over the world to be sped along motroways by enormous supermarket lorries to arrive in store just before the shelves need to be replenished!

This is already happening in a small way with the move back to lcoal producers through farmers markets and the like. It will be accelerated as the oil and gas runs out, but it will not happen overnight.

There may well be an increased role for rail to move goods in the future. I hope there is. However, the fact that natural resources will not last forever is not, and cannot, be a rational reason to restore long lost rail links!

 

[Kinghambranch]

Well Christopher 125 et al, I stand by my assertion that Mr Sainsbury is actually correct (blimey that might be a little risky but what the hell!) and that you might not be. I'm not going to argue the toss any more as differing opinions are a very good thing but can be a little wearisome to others, but my future posts on the New Somerset and Dorset Railway will be only about developments and progress. If it all goes Pete Tonge and I have to come back to you all one day and say "well actually chaps, I was wrong, there was one tiny flaw in the plan, it was bolleaux." to quote Blackadder, then I will.

Lets now get out of the 1970s attitude to railways and into the 21st Century attitude to railways. Most of the other threads on this subject seem dead in comparison so the New Somerset and Dorset must be more interesting than most other things around!

 

[Greenback]

It's interesting, and I hope I am wrong! If I could predict the future I'd win the lottery! However, I think there are too many difficulties ahead, but I look forward to gearing about how the scheme develops! Good luck!

 

[Christopher125]

Kingham, if you dont understand the reasoning behind Peak Oil leading to the viability of rebuilding the S&D, and are only interested in 'Peak Oil' because some bloke says it will mean the S&D will be rebuilt, please think again about encouraging people to spend time and money on something that flies in the face of logic.

Tellingly, this isnt the first time i've asked questions of this project and found a lack of answers. I dont know the motives of the person/people behind this, but i find it all rather strange if im honest.

Chris

 

[Kinghambranch]

Kingham, if you dont understand the reasoning behind Peak Oil leading to the viability of rebuilding the S&D, and are only interested in 'Peak Oil' because some bloke says it will mean the S&D will be rebuilt, please think again about encouraging people to spend time and money on something that flies in the face of logic.

Tellingly, this isnt the first time i've asked questions of this project and found a lack of answers. I dont know the motives of the person/people behind this, but i find it all rather strange if im honest.

Chris

Who else have you asked questions of regarding the New S&D or have you just decided to have a go at a new member of this forum? Thanks for the welcome anyway. Have you been to the New S&D meetings? I could spend the rest of my life having this electronic conversation (well lecture almost by the style you use in your writing) so here goes. I understand that a shortage of oil for use as fuel by private individuals will become too expensive, the resource being needed for other products. Oil will probably never run out but its value to our civilisation will decline. Other forms of public and private transport using alternatives which are currently very expensive or, as some might argue, too politically difficult to handle, will become increasingly competitive. One of those (and its only one of them) will be an ever increasing demand for railways and tramways and one railway that stands to benefit is the S&D. However, Peak Oil alone will not bring it back and the New Somerset and Dorset Group understands that. I have never said in any of my posts that Peak Oil = New S&D. That is why local people and businesses are being engaged and, so far, the answers have been very positive, particularly along the southern part of the old route. It would appear that there is pressure to have the S&D at least partly reinstated even without the Peak Oil issue.

I personally have no difficulty encouraging people to support this project or any other that brings future benefits. I will continue to do so thank you as people are mature enough to make their own minds up. Yesterday I saw a video on U Tube of a class 37 crossing the Station Road at Sheringham to "prove the link" between the National Network and the NNR. I bet a lot of Naysayers were around clapping and cheering, hmmm. Not exactly the New S&D but its yet another scheme that was considered illogical that has happened.

Here is an interesting link from yesterday:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_west/8557995.stm

Why should Chevron want to sell its Milford Haven Refinery? Surely it should be investing in it! Perhaps another buyer will of course or perhaps they know something we don't.

 

[Stuart Galbraith]

Leaving aside the logic over peak oil (I believe it, I dont expect others to), I think the S and D being rebuilt has a logic for a number of reasons. Firstly, the roads in the mendips even after 40 years, from what ive seen of them, are not great. Anyone who has actually been through Radstock and Shepton Mallet will know what I mean. Even as far south as Blandford Forum, where there are new bypasses, the roads are still not great. There is a horrible logjam south of Shaftesbury of continual switchbacks that really puts me off driving down there. If I could catch a train to Blandford and then a bus to Bovington (to visit the museum) then I for the very least would be thankful. Hardly a reason to build the line, but just an example that the road network having taken up the slack, really isnt true as far as I can see.Even Glastonbury would probably pay a large part of the lines keep by the extra traffic the pop festival would bring in. And imagine the residents re-leaved from all the traffic it brings!

Secondly there is tourism. I think people miss how attractive this part the world is. Blandford is a gem (albeit one thats seen better days), and there are few places along the line that are not worth visiting. It was never the settle and carlisle, though Id suggest the views were at least one of the reasons Ivo Peters photographed it so much. If a relatively underutilized line in the Yorkshire dales can earn its keep as a tourist destination, Im sure a line linking one of Britains most historic destinations with one older holiday attractions through picturesque countryside at least has a fighting chance.

There is also the question of containerized freight. There are preciously few north south routes for it, whilst the S and D would be slightly off track, I dont imagine that one more route on an increasingly used system would be a bad idea. Im not convinced the supporters of the line have looked at this enough. In my view, if they connected the line up with the Avon valley railway and bridged the gap between that and Westerleigh junction (admittedly, not very easy now due to the continual bypasses) you would have a railfreight line that would allow you to move container freight from the south to the midlands very easily, completely bypassing Bristol. Expensive? Undoubtedly. Damn sight cheaper in the long run than the continual effort to patch up the West Country's roads.

The amusing thing is, if these folks were asking for a bypass, they would be fobbed off with 'the environmentalists will never allow it'. Asking for a railway line, the argument is ' it will never get used.' Rather amusing when you think about it.

I think when others make criticism that they need to plan and campaign better, I think they have a fair point. I do have no doubt though that putting the line back is is a good idea. The community as far as I can see deserves it. Good luck to them then.

 

[Domeyhead]

I do not know "Mr Sainsbury" but he is no transport strategist. If every single one of his absurd and fanciful ideas somehow came true for the S&D (intact route, total public support, total local authority support, Vast Government handout completely outside of all NR funding controls, no missing infrastructure, wagonload freight handling at every station) he still won't get any freight on the line without reboring Devonshire Tunnel, or has he forgotten that while the world is moving rapidly towards universal W10 gauge freight routes, Devonshire Tunnel was so low ceilinged that it would probably not even permit W8! But with acolytes like Kinghambranch just ignoring the hard stuff we might just as well chuck in a reboring of all the tunnels om the S&D - and hey why not build a second bore while we're at it - because somebody won't mind adding £50 million quid more to the reconstruction cost.
I wonder whether any model railway club would consider modelling the entire 70 mile route in OO/HO gauge - it would be more feasible and a lot more fun.

 

[Stuart Galbraith]

I do not know "Mr Sainsbury" but he is no transport strategist. If every single one of his absurd and fanciful ideas somehow came true for the S&D (intact route, total public support, total local authority support, Vast Government handout completely outside of all NR funding controls, no missing infrastructure, wagonload freight handling at every station) he still won't get any freight on the line without reboring Devonshire Tunnel, or has he forgotten that while the world is moving rapidly towards universal W10 gauge freight routes, Devonshire Tunnel was so low ceilinged that it would probably not even permit W8! But with acolytes like Kinghambranch just ignoring the hard stuff we might just as well chuck in a reboring of all the tunnels om the S&D - and hey why not build a second bore while we're at it - because somebody won't mind adding £50 million quid more to the reconstruction cost.
I wonder whether any model railway club would consider modelling the entire 70 mile route in OO/HO gauge - it would be more feasible and a lot more fun.

Its not clear that they would need to rebuild the tunnel. I gather the plan (from ive picked up on their site) moots using the old Limpley Stoke-Camerton Branch, and use that to get back into Bath, not using the old S and D line (they would in any case have to evict the cyclists and the bats first!). There does appear to be fairly close proximity at least at one point to the line.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristol_and_North_Somerset_Railway
On the other hand, your other points are quite valid, and they would be well advised to put together a PDF tying all these loose ends together. Id love to see an annotated route map. It is after all how the original railway pioneers made their case. Something like this would be a good start.
http://www.swindonsotherrailway.co.uk/chrismsr.html

 

[Kinghambranch]

A few more small developments on the rebirth of the Somerset and Dorset. The main focus continues to be the development of the Midsomer Norton site as a heritage railway and, to that end, some of the rolling stock has been coming and going for restoration. An ex SR PMV recently arrived whilst the 6 wheeled milk tanker was sent to the Churnet Valley for restoration and return. The same treatment has been taking place with the MSN's 2 Mk 1 coaches and one was returned recently looking immaculate. This is part of the MSN's plan to present a high quality image to visitors, especially as, when compared to some other heritage lines, it doesn't actually go anywhere much yet! Other work has included the building of the replacement greenhouse - very much part of the original MSN scene and trackwork towards Chilcompton.

Similarly, at Shillingstone, work continues to return the station and its environs to its previous condition prior to closure. It was fortunate that the station building survived and this has been beautifully restored. Some track has been laid through the station and some structures have been rebuilt. At the moment, work is progressing to complete the rebuild of the platforms and to lay more track.

Meanwhile, as part of the reopening of the Devonshire and Combe Down Tunnels (The Two Tunnels Project) for public access, initially as walkways there has been some progress here too. As the project gathers pace, Monday March 8 2010, saw the ceremonial first digging out of the blocked western portal of Devonshire Tunnel. This is part of the major works to convert the two tunnels (including Combe Down Tunnel) in Bath into a leisure path on the old Somerset & Dorset route, which will eventually complete the link from the city of Bath to Norton Radstock. Whilst this, on its own, does not mean that railway track will be laid through the tunnels next month or even next year, what it does mean is that an erstwhile railway route is being reopened and protected. However, nothing is ever straightforward and unfortunately work stopped on 12 March due to the Council Parks Dept not having issued a license to work on Council land! A case of not dotting the "i"s and crossing the "t"s methinks! It is hoped to re-start work on Monday 15 March 2010 or soon thereafter. This Two Tunnels project is part of a Sustrans scheme to create an extended cycleway and, whilst relationships between railways and sustrans have not always been rosy (!) there is always the opportunity to redevelop an old trackbed if it has been maintained for public use - much more difficult of course if its been bulldozed or obliterated in some other way. I had not realised, for example, that one end of the Devonshire tunnel had been completely filled in.

A fairly insignificant list of events really you might think, especially given the tremendous interest in recent events on the NNR with the reinstatement of the Sheringham Link. However, instead of just bemoaning the loss of the S&D, people seem to be doing something about it at last. All small steps but gradually moving forward.

 

[Greenback]

An alternative way of looking at things would be that sections of the old route are bieng reborn as heritage lines, and if a ffotpath opesn, there is elss chance of rails ever being relaid over that section (rights of way, ramblers pressure groups etc).

I welcome the restoration of the Midsomer Norton and Shillingstone station sites, but to me it just makes the 'grand scheme' of relaying the route throughout as a strategic main line more and more unlikely.

 

[Christopher125]

An alternative way of looking at things would be that sections of the old route are bieng reborn as heritage lines, and if a ffotpath opesn, there is elss chance of rails ever being relaid over that section (rights of way, ramblers pressure groups etc).

I welcome the restoration of the Midsomer Norton and Shillingstone station sites, but to me it just makes the 'grand scheme' of relaying the route throughout as a strategic main line more and more unlikely.

To be honest Greenback i dont think any of what Kingham has just posted is all that relevant to this new S&D scheme. Any restoration of the S&D however unlikely will cost many, many hundreds of millions and isnt going to be made any more or less likely with the digging out a tunnel which is unsuitable for modern railway use due to its restricted bore, or restoration work to a couple of stations. Interesting to enthusiasts like us, yes, but any meaningful difference to the business plan? No.

Chris

 

[Kinghambranch]

Work has now re-started on clearing the Devonshire Tunnel northern portal (contractors started again on 17 Mar once all the paperwork had been done!) as part of opening up the old S&D tunnels for cyclists and walkers. This project is being organised by Sustrans and does not form part of the new 250 mph rail route! Whether this part of the old S&D will ever see trains again is open to question and maybe even heated debate! As has been stated in previous posts, the tunnels themselves a relatively cramped and they must have been a nightmare for footplate crews on a heavy train (I recall seeing a TV programme - return to Evercreech Jct or something - where this was explained by footplatemen). It may well be that a new S&D won't use this route but link up with another route to Bath. New routes and new stations are nothing new of course. However, at least part of the old S&D is being opened up for use by transport other than the motor car and truck.

 

[The Decapod]

A New Somerset and Dorset? Why not?

Too much of the trackbed has been sold off, built over or turned into a cycle route.
What's going on at Midsomer Norton is impressive but I doubt if S & D will ever be rebuilt along its entire route.

A huge amount of money and effort would be needed to re-establish the S&D operating from Bournemouth to Bath. Much of this funding would be donations or subscriptions by rail enthusiasts. This could well have an adverse effect on other heritage railways as people divert their money and effort.

Of course, if it could be done, it would be amazing and a complete new S&D could become Britain's premier preserved / revived railway, but I don't realistically think it could happen.