New Stations fund - next list announced

[HowardGWR]

I thought the station at Portway was just going to be called... Portway. What's wrong with that?

The problem is that the Portway stretches many miles from Avonmouth to Bristol so the name does not locate it. Mind, neither does the ridiculous Portway Parkway.

Time for a competition perhaps. Avonmouth East? Shirehampton West? Avonmouth Bridge? It's almost under the M5 one; indeed that's the station's main raison d'etre, AIUI. M5 Interchange?

 

[ChiefPlanner]

I assume the conductor-guard either does not have time and/or is just to knackered at the end of a run to do a ticket check between Borth and Aber?
If so, obviously, as The Planner suggests, it's going to be 5,000 folks a year buying tickets and 25,000 actually using the service (or some such proportion of freeloaders).

And another point: OK, it's only going to be a one-platform station, but does that mean the platform will mean no chance of re-doubling at some time in the future, should it be needed?

IN my experience , Cambrian conductors are both polite and efficient , I have stayed at Borth and trained to Aber several times , and they make a genuine effort to "catch" fares - even walking 2 cars worth to check tickets. The answer is a person employed part time AM at Aberystwyth and a proper barrier check.

Conductors often check tickets on board at Aber before departure to try and minimise free rides to Borth. Simple really , do not see why a station investment turns into a free ride. Easy enough to employ a Monday to Friday part time ticket checker I wold think.

 

[Gareth Marston]

IN my experience , Cambrian conductors are both polite and efficient , I have stayed at Borth and trained to Aber several times , and they make a genuine effort to "catch" fares - even walking 2 cars worth to check tickets. The answer is a person employed part time AM at Aberystwyth and a proper barrier check.

Conductors often check tickets on board at Aber before departure to try and minimise free rides to Borth. Simple really , do not see why a station investment turns into a free ride. Easy enough to employ a Monday to Friday part time ticket checker I wold think.

Anyone thought of the cost implications of this additional staff members in the business plan? Of course not I agree there's a "simple" solution but Ceredigion CC/ Welsh Government/ DEpartment for Thickies have not even factored it in.

It's a headache that's been dumped on the operator by the politicians.

 

[eastdyke]

Anyone thought of the cost implications of this additional staff members in the business plan? Of course not I agree there's a "simple" solution but Ceredigion CC/ Welsh Government/ DEpartment for Thickies have not even factored it in.

It's a headache that's been dumped on the operator by the politicians.

And all for what? A circa £3.50 anytime return?

The car park is free, initially at least, as there is only planned to be a passive provision for pay machines. And more buses will call than trains.

 

[Gareth Marston]

And all for what? A circa £3.50 anytime return?

The car park is free, initially at least, as there is only planned to be a passive provision for pay machines. And more buses will call than trains.

To get footfall figures and claim the project a great success you need to first sell the tickets...... free rides to Aberystwyth don't register.

 

[Parallel]

I really don't think the punctuality of The Cambrian will drastically change over Bow Street opening. Trains usually arrive a minute or two early anyway, and maybe timings can be looked at again at Machynlleth (the Aber train has at least 5 minutes dwell time there if splitting from the Pwllheli portion)

If it was going to be severely detrimental to the line, I doubt it would be getting as much support. Worth noting too that there is due to be a new campus for Aberystwyth university opening in the future, which would be a fantastic opportunity to students who have lectures there. Some may even hold season tickets if travelling most weekdays. It would also allow for Bow Street residents to go out somewhere like Aberystwyth or Shrewsbury by train for the evening.

 

[The Planner]

That is a good shout, the SRTs are a bit slack along there in places. ATW like the performance buffer though as it has been raised before.

 

[Gareth Marston]

That is a good shout, the SRTs are a bit slack along there in places. ATW like the performance buffer though as it has been raised before.

So we're cutting into allowances and probably going to a full hourly service in the new franchise? At the same time we're going to "right time" railway.

However you want to dress it up the Cambrian is a single track railway and any train departing Dovey Junction has to be back there in 58 minutes to let the next service through.

 

[FGW_Lad]

Reading Green Park which will receive £2.3 million towards a total project cost of £16.5 million

Good to see it's finally going ahead after years of talking about it. It'll bring better transport links for South Reading and will help ease the traffic on the A33 on matchdays at the Madjeski Stadium.

 

[fgwrich]

Of course, the main issue with Horden, Bow Street and Reading Green Park is the inadequate hourly service. There are still several 2 hour gaps in services to Aberystwyth. Severn Beach has even fewer services. It seems likely that 2tph could be provided at Warrington West.....

Just one thing to note - Green Park will have a half hourly service as it'll be served by the Reading to Basingstoke service (hourly on Sundays). My only concern for the station is the size of the stock, until Electrification reaches us on the Basingstoke branch, the 2 car 165s usually end up leaving reading full and standing in the evening peak (the situation is eased a little when we go back to 3car units on the branch).

Good to see it's finally going ahead after years of talking about it. It'll bring better transport links for South Reading and will help ease the traffic on the A33 on matchdays at the Madjeski Stadium.

Definitely so. It's been talked about for long enough, with some action on the ground taking place. There's also plenty of new homes being added around the Green Park business area (Kennet Island being one of them) as well as the continued expansion of the Green Park business park as well. It's just a shame that one of the Madjeski's biggest tenants are about to move out back to Brentford (London Irish Rugby Club) just as the construction of a station there is about to start.

 

[The Planner]

So we're cutting into allowances and probably going to a full hourly service in the new franchise? At the same time we're going to "right time" railway.

However you want to dress it up the Cambrian is a single track railway and any train departing Dovey Junction has to be back there in 58 minutes to let the next service through.

Not sure what you are getting at, sort the SRTs, as much as it will annoy ATW, and you are eating into less of the turn round.

 

[Bishopstone]

Re. Bow Street.

Lots of talk about inadequate time to issue tickets and check tickets.

I would have thought the solution to this problem was smartcards and/or mobile phone ticketing, rather than not opening a new station.

I realise the roll-out of smartcards etc has been pretty glacial, but bearing in mind the new station will be a few years in the detailed planning and construction, might this technology have reached the Cambrian by then?

However, even if we're going to rely on bits of cardboard still, the logistical difficulties of ticketing are not a good reason to deny a community a new station. (There may be other good reasons to doubt the feasibility of a station at Bow Street, of course, though most openings and re-openings have thrived.)

 

[Gareth Marston]

Not sure what you are getting at, sort the SRTs, as much as it will annoy ATW, and you are eating into less of the turn round.

Sorry need to be clearer my point is I don't see any evidence they have really thought out the implications on time of stopping a train coming down a 1 in 75. Incline from Llandre and then going straight up anoyther mile and a half of 1 in 75 from a standing start (and then doing it in reverse a few minutes later). It's all very well thinking that ATW have a bit of padding and that stopping a train and then starting it again will only take a couple of minutes in theory but have they actually worked it out using the actual scenario of Bow St being at the bottom of inclines either side of it.

The CAPITA report simply says "it's assumed there will be no adverse impact on performance". Remember it was assumed that Network Rail would have completed GWR electrification by now at a third of the cost......

 

[The Planner]

That sort of scenario is computer modeled all the time, it is the day job whoever is doing the work, NR or consultants.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Will Bow St actually increase rail journeys, or will it just mean existing passengers will use it because of its convenience?
It's not exactly an urban catchment.
Virtually everybody must be motorised to live there in the first place.
Why is driving to Borth so difficult?

 

[Gareth Marston]

Will Bow St actually increase rail journeys, or will it just mean existing passengers will use it because of its convenience?
It's not exactly an urban catchment.
Virtually everybody must be motorised to live there in the first place.
Why is driving to Borth so difficult?

Station car parking at Aberystwyth and Borth is more or less non existent however there were/are potential solutions in Aberystwyth without building 3.5 miles away.

 

[Gareth Marston]

That sort of scenario is computer modeled all the time, it is the day job whoever is doing the work, NR or consultants.

Well I'll remain sceptical until I see evidence that it's actually been done and someone's not just done a quick desktop exercise based on the average time penalty of stopping trains on level sections of track.

 

[eastdyke]

Well I'll remain sceptical until I see evidence that it's actually been done and someone's not just done a quick desktop exercise based on the average time penalty of stopping trains on level sections of track.

I agree.

Your earlier quote:

The CAPITA report simply says "it's assumed there will be no adverse impact on performance"

To quote (from the CAPITA report March 2016 at http://gov.wales/docs/det/report/160331-bow-street-station-option-selection-report.pdf at 2.11, page 25):

Cambrian Timetable – Assumed that the station stop can be accommodated within the current timetable. A separate Welsh Government study has reported to the Minister.

This appears to be a fudge from the CAPITA SYMONDS report for the Welsh Government dated May 2011 which concluded at http://www.tracc.gov.uk/uploads/media/Carno_Bow_St_May_2011_Revison_D_01.pdf 7.2.4, page 31

It has not currently been possible to confirm the operational impact of a new station at Bow Street and the extent to which this can be accommodated in turnaround times at Aberystwyth.

Unless of course there are other reports.

It is interesting to note that the original station plan was for a 97m platform (4 car) trains but the later version is for 150m (6 car). Do 6 car trains work to Aberystwyth?

 

[CheekyBandit]

The problem is that the Portway stretches many miles from Avonmouth to Bristol so the name does not locate it. Mind, neither does the ridiculous Portway Parkway.

Time for a competition perhaps. Avonmouth East? Shirehampton West? Avonmouth Bridge? It's almost under the M5 one; indeed that's the station's main raison d'etre, AIUI. M5 Interchange?

By the same logic East Midlands Parkway is equally ridiculous - the name doesn't locate that station either. Technically it could be anywhere in an area of about 6000 square miles. IMHO it should have been named Middle of Nowhere Parkway

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

IMHO it should have been named Middle of Nowhere Parkway

Isn't there a current television advertisement for universities that features a couple of silly-named railway stations similar to the one that you have named above?

 

[Bwlch y Groes]

Worth noting that Warrington West will be a Northern Connect station. It'll get a very good service and facilities. Shame about Sankey, though - I can imagine that won't be too popular with locals, given that the new development would end up being well catered for while the people who were there all along lose out

Obviously this excludes local authority station plans. Was talking to a representative of WYCA recently and they're still planning on four extra stations. I see Elland has been mentioned on this forum already. The other three are Thorp Park (east of Cross Gates), Leeds/Bradford Airport (north of Horsforth), and White Rose (south of Cottingley). Horsforth Woodside and Crosshills are dead in the water and there's a feeling that after these additions, we will be close to the limit of what the network is capable of

Apparently the big debate is whether or not Cottingley will close if White Rose goes ahead, as there would be very little distance between the two stations. The ideal scenario would be for closure but it's likely there would be major objections, so I can see that ending up with the classic skeleton service

As well as this, I know plans are advancing for the Ashington service. It's a franchise obligation that we work towards that, although I suspect it's some way off actually happening

Incidentally, what's happening with Edginswell? Seems to have gone very quiet

 

[Henbury Loop]

I have serious doubts that Portway Parkway in Bristol will actually be built.

So here goes:

Does the existing infrastructure cater for current demand? From my limited experience of “the beach” line in the last few years I think the answer has to be “only just.”

Could the existing infrastructure cope with a substantial increase in traffic to and from an Avonmouth Parkway station? I would suggest that the answer to that is a thumping great big “no.”

Will the additional traffic generated by an Avonmouth Parkway station increase traffic receipts sufficiently to warrant an improvement to the infrastructure and, if not, where is the money coming from to provide it? This is a question for the bean counters involved in these things and it is also potentially a political issue. Whilst the government is pretty good at making policy announcements, it often ain’t so good at the detail, and that’s why so many government schemes fall flat on their arses (just see what’s going to happen with Brexit – mark my words…)

To play devil’s advocate for a moment, there is already a park and ride facility from that car park – using buses which I have never seen running anywhere near full (but I admit that I have only seen them running in the off peak). Doubling the number of buses would cost a fraction of the cost of improving the rail infrastructure down there, and that could be a far more cost effective option, no matter what the politicians have said about the new station in a policy document/ wish list (see previous paragraph…)

However, my view is that if (big IF) the station ever gets built then the rail infrastructure will need to be improved. Whether that is done by a strategic loop of a reasonable length (say Montpelier to Clifton), or redoubling part of the line wholesale, it will have to be done. The scheme will not work without it.

And that’s why I suspect that it never will be built or, if it is, it will be part of the larger and currently shelved scheme to reinstate passenger services on the entire Henbury loop.

 

[michael74]

Worth noting that Warrington West will be a Northern Connect station. It'll get a very good service and facilities. Shame about Sankey, though - I can imagine that won't be too popular with locals, given that the new development would end up being well catered for while the people who were there all along lose out

Obviously this excludes local authority station plans. Was talking to a representative of WYCA recently and they're still planning on four extra stations. I see Elland has been mentioned on this forum already. The other three are Thorp Park (east of Cross Gates), Leeds/Bradford Airport (north of Horsforth), and White Rose (south of Cottingley). Horsforth Woodside and Crosshills are dead in the water and there's a feeling that after these additions, we will be close to the limit of what the network is capable of

Apparently the big debate is whether or not Cottingley will close if White Rose goes ahead, as there would be very little distance between the two stations. The ideal scenario would be for closure but it's likely there would be major objections, so I can see that ending up with the classic skeleton service

As well as this, I know plans are advancing for the Ashington service. It's a franchise obligation that we work towards that, although I suspect it's some way off actually happening

Incidentally, what's happening with Edginswell? Seems to have gone very quiet

Edginswell (and Marshbarton) have been shelved http://www.devonlive.com/disappointment-as-plans-for-first-new-south-devon-rail-station-in-decades-gets-red-light/story-30474973-detail/story.html

 

[Bletchleyite]

Sankey could retain its service if only they would wire the CLC and use lightweight, high acceleration EMUs like the Swiss FLIRTs. It's about the best case for electrification in the North West due to the huge number of local stations - a far better case than Chat Moss ever had.

 

[backontrack]

I did think that when I read the OP this morning. "Portway Parkway" is the kind of name given to a station in a soap opera, there must be something more suitable!

Now, can we expect a third round of the New Stations Fund?

Wellington, Haxby, Crosshills and Gilsland being among the contenders?

EDIT: OK. Possibly not Crosshills.

 

[158756]

Sankey could retain its service if only they would wire the CLC and use lightweight, high acceleration EMUs like the Swiss FLIRTs. It's about the best case for electrification in the North West due to the huge number of local stations - a far better case than Chat Moss ever had.

Sankey is too close to Warrington West to bother with both on any sort of train, plus the business case for Warrington West probably doesn't work if passengers from Sankey don't transfer to it.

 

[PR1Berske]

An update on Warrington West from the local paper

Cllr O'Neill (LAB – Burtonwood and Winwick) said: "This will be a tremendous boost for the area, hopefully it will be up and running in 2019.

"Hopefully, the station will relieve all of the congestion in the area.

"I did not expect it to cost so much but you have to pay what you have to pay and I think it will deliver great benefits.

"It will be a tremendous development for everyone in west Warrington and is something that is much-needed in the borough."

Warrington South MP Faisal Rashid, who campaigned for the station during his time as borough councillor, also attended the ceremony.

He said: "I think this is a really good moment for the area and for me personally as well.

"I remember looking at the vision for the whole area and pushed hard to keep this in the pipeline and the council then decided to keep it going.

"Next year I want this massive site to be serving the community.

“This station is not just for Chapelford residents, it is for the whole of west Warrington."

Source: http://www.warringtonguardian.co.uk...19m_Warrington_West_railway_station_to_start/




I searched the forum for Warrington West threads and this was one of the remaining open.