New Transdev Cityzap services registered (and now cancelled)

[TheGrandWazoo]

The other way to look at this is that Leeds Bus Station to the train station is a quarter of a hour walk plus the time to catch the train. Journey planners typically give around half a hour. So for any one arriving at Leeds Bus Station, subject to timing, the CityZap service could in practice actually be quicker than using the train. There will also be factor that the Daytripper ticket will presumably be available on these so making day journeys to Manchester significantly cheaper for many on existing Transdev routes radiating from Leeds.

Exactly and the other post (re: leisure market) has it nailed too.

Seems they are squarely going for the leisure market though the odd commuter would be nice to have. They can go centre to centre so there is the advantage there over the train as well as the cost. Going for that leisure market may make sense and they probably think (and rightly) that night services just won't make commercial sense

In terms of perception, many people also think that NatEx is a pay before you use rather than a turn up and travel service. Get the marketing right and it may prove to be a winner. After all, who'd have thought that York to Leeds would suddenly be shifting 200k passengers (though how many have been abstracted from Coastliner would be interesting to know).

 

[radamfi]

National Express tried this route as a turn-up-and-go service in the mid 90s when they branded the service "Express Shuttle". Around the same time, Stagecoach created a number of limited stop services using low spec coaches (Plaxton Interurbans, a cut down version of the Premiere), branded "Stagecoach Express". Express Shuttle quietly disappeared and most of the Stagecoach Express routes were downgraded or withdrawn within a few years.

By contrast, turn up and go coach services have long been the norm in Scotland and Ireland.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

National Express tried this route as a turn-up-and-go service in the mid 90s when they branded the service "Express Shuttle". Around the same time, Stagecoach created a number of limited stop services using low spec coaches (Plaxton Interurbans, a cut down version of the Premiere), branded "Stagecoach Express". Express Shuttle quietly disappeared and most of the Stagecoach Express routes were downgraded or withdrawn within a few years.

By contrast, turn up and go coach services have long been the norm in Scotland and Ireland.

I know - I worked for NatEx at the time. The Leeds - Manchester - Liverpool was Shuttled as were the 011 and 064 London to Cambridge/Brighton. Whilst reasonably successful, they were a b*gger to operate! Perhaps Scottish routes had more settled profiles but we had instances when the weather was supposed to be rubbish, then turned out to be superb, cue a swamping of the 064 as everyone wanted to go to the coast. Trying to get additional coaches "on the day" in London is a real challenge!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I know - I worked for NatEx at the time. The Leeds - Manchester - Liverpool was Shuttled as were the 011 and 064 London to Cambridge/Brighton. Whilst reasonably successful, they were a b*gger to operate! Perhaps Scottish routes had more settled profiles but we had instances when the weather was supposed to be rubbish, then turned out to be superb, cue a swamping of the 064 as everyone wanted to go to the coast. Trying to get additional coaches "on the day" in London is a real challenge!

I thought the Express Shuttles were run as coach services (though pre-ENCTS there was less distinction between bus/coach I imagine) and didn't think they ever served (the outskirts of) Huddersfield.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I thought the Express Shuttles were run as coach services (though pre-ENCTS there was less distinction between bus/coach I imagine) and didn't think they ever served (the outskirts of) Huddersfield.

Shuttles were operated by coaches but fitted with Wayfarers and publicised as turn up and travel.

There were further services so converted to Shuttle operation such as the Kent and Bristol runs.

 

[Statto]

Shuttles were operated by coaches but fitted with Wayfarers and publicised as turn up and travel.

There were further services so converted to Shuttle operation such as the Kent and Bristol runs.

Yep i was a regular user of the Express Shuttle Liverpool-Leeds in the 90s early 00s, not every day but couple of times a month, you could turn up & go rather than pre booking, now you have to pre book, but journey times are now prohibitive compared with the train, the coach can take more than 3 hours in the peak because of traffic, fast train via Chat Moss is more expensive but takes 90 minutes Liverpool-Leeds, so is a no brainer if you want to arrive either end around or before 9am.

 

[TUC]

Ainley Top is equidistant between Huddersfield and Halifax so I wonder if the service is partly seeking to attract Leeds and Manchester commuters from both of these towns? However, in order for this to work it would need the hotel to be willing to be used as a Park and Ride site since it is not easy to access on foot.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Ainley Top is equidistant between Huddersfield and Halifax so I wonder if the service is partly seeking to attract Leeds and Manchester commuters from both of these towns? However, in order for this to work it would need the hotel to be willing to be used as a Park and Ride site since it is not easy to access on foot.

The 503 also serves Ainley Top, therefore to interchange from that onto CZ2 would only mean a 5 minute walk around the corner.

See the following for a map (bear in mind that in West Yorkshire WYCA prints the timetables on behalf of the operators but this appear to be getting phased out and the operators will be expected to print them themselves.)

https://www.firstgroup.com/uploads/node_images/Halifax_guide_3.pdf

https://www.firstgroup.com/uploads/node_images/Huddersfield_guide.pdf

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The 503 also serves Ainley Top, therefore to interchange from that onto CZ2 would only mean a 5 minute walk around the corner.

See the following for a map (bear in mind that in West Yorkshire WYCA prints the timetables on behalf of the operators but this appear to be getting phased out and the operators will be expected to print them themselves.)

https://www.firstgroup.com/uploads/node_images/Halifax_guide_3.pdf

https://www.firstgroup.com/uploads/node_images/Huddersfield_guide.pdf

I would be a little doubtful that Ainley Top has been chosen for any other reason than for operational convenience to split the registration.

That said, from my experience on the South West Falcon, it is interesting to see at which far flung places people do get on.

 

[lejog]

Ainley Top is equidistant between Huddersfield and Halifax so I wonder if the service is partly seeking to attract Leeds and Manchester commuters from both of these towns? However, in order for this to work it would need the hotel to be willing to be used as a Park and Ride site since it is not easy to access on foot.

Only the Manchester service stops at the so-called "Cedar Court" stop. There is no eastbound stop for Leeds there, that is quite a way further west at Warren House Farm. If the hotel were willing to operate a park and ride (which I very much doubt, the Ainley Top hotels are busy) there are far more convenient stops behind the hotel, which even boast bus shelters. This would add a circular tour of an unattractive housing estate to the route though.

The 503 also serves Ainley Top, therefore to interchange from that onto CZ2 would only mean a 5 minute walk around the corner.

Or a rather longer walk for Leeds passengers, alongside busy roads, a major roundabout etc. If Transdev were serious about attracting 503 interchange passengers the stops behind the hotel are a minutes walk from the 503 Ainley Top stops, up the steps next to the stops (Streetview)

I would be a little doubtful that Ainley Top has been chosen for any other reason than for operational convenience to split the registration.

That said, from my experience on the South West Falcon, it is interesting to see at which far flung places people do get on.

Agreed, especially since there are existing extremely cheap, if rather slow, service buses from Huddersfield town centre to Leeds and Manchester for those who can't afford the train fare.

 

[Tetchytyke]

The service is only split there because it's operationally convenient; it's either there or Bailiff Bridge.

That said, I'm sure Transdev would be delighted to see people use it.

 

[Statto]

Only thing going for this service would be the use of ENCTS passes/Transdev day tickets, otherwise with the early finish it'd be either National Express which runs later into the evening or rail.

 

[radamfi]

For budget travellers, there are also the local Northern services between Leeds and Manchester Victoria. They do Advance fares on the day if you use the Northern app.

 

[96tommy]

For budget travellers, there are also the local Northern services between Leeds and Manchester Victoria. They do Advance fares on the day if you use the Northern app.

I use the Leeds to Manchester Victoria northern when travelling between the 2 and never pay more than £6 return. Some really really good fares when booking in advance

 

[Baxenden Bank]

If the Ainley Top stop is entirely a workaround the legislation (and I assume it is) why not just use the stop on the dual carriageway, labelled on Google as "Blackley New Road Motorway Junction". The stop on the northern carriageway could be used by both eastbound and westbound services, has a footway on that side of the road, and benefits from both a timetable case and a litter bin. Also served by Calder Cubs 343 on an hourly basis. I don't fancy trying to use the stop on the south side though!

I wouldn't fancy walking that route myself but it does appear to be the only way of crossing the M62 between Blackley and Ainley Top. Standard, oh s**t, there is no provision for pedestrians in our road scheme, better provide something however unworkable in practice. An uncontrolled crossing of the motorway slip-roads as well.

Referring back to the 'Stagecoach Express' services, the Blackpool - Preston - Manchester service (X60 or X61?) had a stop at Rivington Services on the M61. Not sure if it had many boarding passengers though - be they park and ride or walk up from surrounding areas.

Finally, when I used the Liverpool - Manchester National Express service a couple of years back, it seemed to have quite a number of regular commuter types with 'carnet' type tickets. Norton Street staff formed intending passengers into two queues; the booked passengers were boarded first, then the others took what seats remained (plenty on the occasions I travelled).

 

[pemma]

They've already registered a change to the service, so it sounds like they made a mistake in the original registrations.

 

[mattpharrison]

They've already registered a change to the service, so it sounds like they made a mistake in the original registrations.

Small timing change to avoid stand clashes at Chorlton Street, at the request of TfGM.

 

[Deerfold]

Small timing change to avoid stand clashes at Chorlton Street, at the request of TfGM.

A little odd, as they operate all 3 routes which use that stop.

 

[Polarbear]

Start date for this service is 5 November apparently. No timetable available as yet on the Transdev Lancashire website.

Am I correct in thinking this is hourly & daytime only, to start off with at least?

 

[Stan Drews]

Start date for this service is 5 November apparently. No timetable available as yet on the Transdev Lancashire website.

Am I correct in thinking this is hourly & daytime only, to start off with at least?

Yes, you're correct. Largely hourly during the main part of the day.

 

[SCH117X]

They have started tweeting about the new service stating that Ainley Top is convenient for Halifax and Huddersfield

 

[Polarbear]

They have started tweeting about the new service stating that Ainley Top is convenient for Halifax and Huddersfield

A lot depends on how one defines "convenient". It's a long walk to either town centre from Ainley Top!

 

[bluenoxid]

They’re probably thinking kiss and ride rather than park and ride.

No harm in pushing a possible opportunity. If they offer discounts to certain groups, it might attract additional users.

 

[Starmill]

There will apparently be a special offer on tickets in the first week.

I use the Leeds to Manchester Victoria northern when travelling between the 2 and never pay more than £6 return. Some really really good fares when booking in advance

Do you have a railcard though?

 

[Stan Drews]

They did a number of great fare offers when they launched the Leeds-York service, so I'd imagine they'll do the same with Leeds-Manc.

 

[SCH117X]

Could be a tie up with First to offer connections to/from Ainley Top; they already have a tie up with them in Leeds offering travel anywhere in Leeds for a slight additional fare on the 36.

 

[lejog]

Could be a tie up with First to offer connections to/from Ainley Top; they already have a tie up with them in Leeds offering travel anywhere in Leeds for a slight additional fare on the 36.

The Ainley Top stops are served by K-Line (Service 343), the Mount stop by TLC (Service 377/8). Its a fair walk to the nearest First bus (the 503) at Ainley Top.

 

[SCH117X]

Oops however Yorkshire Tiger also have an existing tie on with Transdev; Transdevs Harrogate Plus Zone ticket now includes use of Yorkshire Tigers service to Leeds Bradford Airport.

 

[yorkie]

Just a reminder that this thread is about the new Transdev CityZap services.

Please do feel free to discuss other services in other threads (if there isn't a suitable one, please do create one), thanks!

 

[Deerfold]

The Ainley Top stops are served by K-Line (Service 343), the Mount stop by TLC (Service 377/8). Its a fair walk to the nearest First bus (the 503) at Ainley Top.

This stop:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place...cf8963ba05c7a76!8m2!3d53.6700358!4d-1.8310938

is shared by ZAP and First's 501. Unfortunately that's only going to be any use in the early evening.